Wikipedia

Talk:Brian Clough

Latest comment: 3 years ago by 148.252.129.103 in topic Fashanu
Learn more about this page

"Considered by many"

edit
Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Authenticity check: A search reveals that the phrase "regarded by many" appears in the text. Is the phrase a symptom of a dubious statement? Could a source be quoted instead? Perhaps the "many" could be identified? Might text be edited to more genuinely reflect specific facts? -- Wetman 01:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

Billingham Synthonia

edit

Could we add a sentence on the fact that he played for Billingham Synthonia in his youth, before going on National Service? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.104.118.126 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 28 March 2007

Hartlepool

edit
Latest comment: 15 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Up until 1968 the club was called Hartlepools United following the merger of Hartlepool and West Hartlepool FC's so I have amended this from Harlepool to Hartlepools.Statto74 (talk) 12:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Yet again I have corrected this back to Hartlepools as that is what the club was called until a year after Clough departed.Statto74 (talk) 09:26, 14 January 2009 (UTC)Reply
You are of course correct. Will you be back same time next year to sort it again?  ;) Jellyman (talk) 22:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)Reply

England job

edit
Latest comment: 13 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Maybe someone could add in something about his being the "people's choice" for England manager. There's a quote from him on the subject at the bottom, but I think he was widely regarded as the man for the job for several years, the FA baiscally being too fearful to give him the post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MegdalePlace (talk • contribs) 19:05, 3 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

He didn't exactly help himself. When Clough was going into his interview at Lancaster Gate he took the piss out of an elderly man who was struggling to get up the stairs. That man just happened to be one of the FA board who were interviewing him. Oops. He was actually given the England youth team job as a test to see if he could behave himself. He messed that up as well, neglecting his duties and rarely being seen on the training ground. At a tournament in Spain he caused a minor diplomatic incident when he verbally attacked a young female translator who fled in tears. He was relieved of his position and the FA never considered him again. 217.44.234.250 (talk) 06:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

Leeds

edit
Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The article requires more than 1 paragraph about his time at Leeds. It may have been just 44 days in a long career, but it was hugely significant. It's also useful to balance out the article. --Dweller (talk) 10:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)Reply

Nigel Clough

edit

There is no mention of the working relationship Brian and Nigel had at Forest for quite a few years, and I think this is really worth mentioning, if not going into detail about it. Nigel was a great player, and was very popular in his time in Nottingham, and this must be in part due to his Dad. You could say this was yet another success for Brian!

Bungs

edit
Latest comment: 13 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I'm about to remove the sentence "Owing to Clough's declining health when the case was put together, he was never formally charged by the FA."

While it does say this in the source, this is the author (Mihir Bose) asserting that this is fact, rather than anyone from the FA confirming that this is the reason he wasn't charged. I've got no problem with the article stating the facts, or indeed using the source for the sentence preceeding it. The last sentence effectively reads "Clough was guilty but not charged due to ill health.", a controversial statement which would need very explicit sourcing, more so than the assertion of a sports journalist at the telegraph. 82.5.72.161 (talk) 19:09, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

On the subject of dodgy dealings, does anyone know what the exact offences were that saw Clough's Derby banned from European competition for financial irregularities ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.219.178 (talk) 14:01, 10 January 2011 (UTC)Reply

Fashanu

edit
Latest comment: 3 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

From the Justin Fashanu article:

His career stalled as his professional relationship with Brian Clough deteriorated; Clough, it would appear, was disturbed by the rumours of Justin Fashanu's visits to gay nightclubs and bars. His goals and then confidence dried up as he failed to fit in with the playing and lifestyle demands of Clough, especially after Clough had discovered his homosexuality and barred him from even training with the side.
In his autobiography, Clough recounts a dressing down he gave Fashanu after hearing rumours that he was going to gay bars. "'Where do you go if you want a loaf of bread?' I asked him. 'A baker's, I suppose.' 'Where do you go if you want a leg of lamb?' 'A butcher's.' 'So why do you keep going to that bloody poofs' club?"'[1]
[1]Clough, Brian (1995). Clough: The Autobiography. Corgi Adult, 319 pages. ISBN 0552140031.
Clough's treatment of Fashanu was horrendous and certainly highly homophobic but I believe this article is misleading. While Clough humiliated Fashanu over his sexuality, the paragraph here implies he found out he was gay and barred him from training as a result and supposedly Clough's autobiography is the source for this. Actually the autobiography says no such thing. It appears Clough continued to play Fashanu long after he discovered he was gay, he states in in his book that it was an incident sometime later where Fashanu turned up at the training ground with either his "religious teacher" or his personal massuer (Clough can't remember which) and refused to have them leave which lead to Clough barring him from training. The paragraph here isn't strictly inaccurate but is misleading since it implies Clough through him out the club after finding out he was gay, which isn't the case. Clough's treatment of Fashanu was appalling, but we shouldn't imply that it was worse than it actually was. Also, in the interests of balance, it might be worth mentioning that in his second book which was published shortly before he died, Clough expresses a great deal of regret of his treatment of Fashanu in the light of his later suicide and admits he feels the player's life may have turned out differently if he had treated him differently. 92.8.77.181 (talk) 19:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)Reply
Your very last sentence makes Clough's treatment of Fashanu even more appalling: he admits he mistreated him so badly that he fears that, had he (Clough) behaved differently towards Fashanu, Fashanu's life would've been different. The only problem with that kind of public display of "remorse" is that Fashanu had to commit suicide before Clough even considered that his attitude towards Fashanu was downright disgraceful. Don't understand why the whole Fashanu "incident" / situation is as much as barely mentioned in Clough's article. Of course, the full account as you say, strictly NPOV, should be included. IMHO, the lack of the account is, in itself, very judgmental -- in Clough's favour. 54.240.197.233 (talk) 16:23, 2 December 2013 (UTC)Reply

Final sentence of this section - 'It was in this book that he admitted his one regret was leaving Derby County' - doesn't fit with what came before, and doesn't make it clear that 'this book' is the autobiography. Notreallydavid (talk) 14:37, 10 October 2015 (UTC)Reply


It seems there are plenty of primary and secondary sources about Clough's mistreatment of Fashanu due to his sexual orientation. Why, then, is this disgraceful aspect of Clough's life (his bigotry and homophobia) not explicitly called out in this article? Wikipedia being Wikipedia again, it seems. 148.252.129.103 (talk) 15:14, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Outside the top flight

edit
Latest comment: 14 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

What is meant by "Clough is the only person to achieve this [winning the league] with clubs from outside the Top Flight"? Kenny Dalglish took charge of Blackburn while they were in the old Second Division which would mean it's inaccurate. D-Notice (talk) 21:03, 22 May 2009 (UTC)Reply

I think that the key here is 'clubs', meaning that Brian Clough acheved this more than once, rather than the one club from outside the top division which Kenny Dalglish managed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.111.165.100 (talk) 21:52, 27 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

http://fourfourtwo.com/interviews/one-on-one/219/article.aspx Dave McKay: Later, when I took over from Brian and he’d gone to Leeds and burnt Don Revie’s desk, he came to see me in my office to sign John McGovern and John O’Hare and said, “Why haven’t you burnt my desk?” Ha ha!

So he did burn the desk..(----SP) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.132.114.235 (talk) 16:06, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Disputable 'honour'

edit
Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Amongst Clough's honours is runners up spot in the Charity Shield, which cannot be considered an honour as it would be the minimum they would have achived from that match. He had no contribution towards this 'honour'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.185.85 (talk) 00:58, 19 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Brian Clough quotes

edit
Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I cannot believe there are no Brian Clough quotes on Wikiquotes. Please add some. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidsteed (talk • contribs) 19:55, 16 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Conservative/Sexist/Totalitarian?

edit
Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

His quotes: “If I had an argument with a player we would sit down for twenty minutes, talk about it and then decide I was right!” and "I like my women to be feminine, not sliding into tackles and covered in mud." appear to be totalitarian and sexist/discriminatory. This kind of thoughts should not have a place in a modern democratic and human-rights-respecting society and a man with such thoughts should in no way be respected. He should even be despised for being a petty tyrant, just like Ferguson. Anon J (talk) 17:08, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

WP:BLP and WP:RS apply to this kind of thing, so if you can find third party reliable sources, not blogs or opinion peices, thisn then could be discussed, using qoutes and adding an opinion to them cant, as it is WP:OR. Murry1975 (talk) 17:50, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply
edit
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Brian Clough. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:12, 25 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

edit
Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on Brian Clough. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:28, 6 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

edit
Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Brian Clough. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:37, 22 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

Nickname

edit
Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Clough's nickname was Old Big 'Ead [1] but I'm not too sure where this would go in the article. --Jameboy (talk) 00:05, 24 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Add topic
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brian_Clough&oldid=1194773535"