Talk:Brisbane/Archive 1

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"legislation decreeing timber construction" ? No, there's never been such legislation on the statute books, timber construction was simply the most cost effective. In the 19th century Brisbane was in the middle of a vast forest of timber - Rafting Ground Road in Brookfield was where logs were lashed together to float down Moggil Creek and down to Brisbane. Moggill Road and Waterworks Rds are their peculiar windy routes because they follow the old bullock dray routes that dragged the timber down out of the hills.Paddington62 02:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

There was however legislation which effectively banned terrace housing by limiting the minimum size of allotments.Paddington62 02:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Change to the caption of the aerial shot of Brisbane - Figaro, I don't think it is relevant that the picture was taken from a Virgin Blue 737 - it could have been taken from a balloon, and it's still a pic of the inner area of Brisbane. That's all the caption needs to say.Paddington62 02:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The photo has nothing to do with me. The caption has nothing to do with me. I have absoultely no idea why you even addressed me on the matter. Figaro 10:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I have to say that as a Brisbaneite, I find this article embarrassing. Twee in tone, pollyanna-ish (if such a word exists) -ever heard the song "[Everything's up to date in] Kansas City" from the musical Oklahoma!? This article reads like the lyrics to that song. Nothing wrong in Brisbane ?? What about the deteriorating traffic conditions? The Bureau of Transport and Regional Economics (BTRE) says that within 10 years Brisbane will have the worst traffic in Australia. Dammit, Brisbane in the 1960's had the highest per capita usage of public transport in Australia. Now it's the worst. Reams could be written about the destruction of heritage buildings or the influence of the Brisbane town plan, (sorry car park plan) on the development of the city. But nope, nothing. Nothing about the influence of climate and topography on the unique Brisbane domestic architecture. I'm not sure where to start to rewrite it, frankly.Paddington62 13 March 2006.

Re-Added Veronicas to Notable bands and artists list. They are a valid Band or Artist. Their page does not intend to advertise instead noting their success. ________________________________________ What are sister cities? They're mentioned in the article but not explained. —seav

See Sister city. Short answer: the term "sister city" means nothing at all to 99% of the residents of the cities involved. It's just something organised between local goverments as a feelgood exercise. I guess it allows mayors to travel overseas at taxpayers' expense. I'm not being too cynical, am I? :) -- Tim Starling 13:16 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

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There is already a link to HUMBUG on the UQ page. That is good enough. It is not really required on Brisbane as well. - Gaz 16:28, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC) (a HUMBUGger)

Yes, even I have to agree with this Robertbrockway 6:14 Apr 22 2005 (UTC) (founder of HUMBUG)

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Did the hottest maximum temperature record change this year ? Julianp 03:59, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Antipode

Are there any decent facts regarding Brisbane's antipode? EmileVictor 07:21, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Brisbane's antipode isn't very interesting since it consists of an area of 1357 sq kms of the Atlantic Ocean. 62.254.168.102 15:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

New infobox

I have changed the infobox to combine the best of the former box and the one at Johannesburg. Any comments? Brisvegas 11:07, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm reverting this edit. There's no reason Brisbane needs its own infobox. I suggest you take a look at Template:Infobox Australian City instead. Particularly the Talk page. --Dalziel 86 01:41, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I've also submitted Template:Brisbane infobox as a template for deletion, as it is redundant given the existence of Template:Infobox Australian City. --Dalziel 86 01:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Inaccuracy in Population

The article should not confuse the pouplate of the City of Brisbane with the Metropolitan area. The City itself is 900,000 - still the largest in Australia. The metropolitan area contains other cities (Logan, Ipswich, Redland and a few other shires).<ANON entry>

well... you must be just the person to update the page! Erich 13:30, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

A Brief Word on Sporting Teams

I've just reverted an addition listing a series of state rugby league teams based in and around Brisbane. This was done on the assumption that the "sporting teams" we're talking about are actually the ones which play in the national competitions (such as the Broncos, Reds, Bulls etc etc), rather than every single team in any level of competition. BigHaz 03:47, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Removed sections

I've moved these sections here temporarily because a lot of it reads like apartment advertising, a lot of it is factually incorrect (regarding skyscrapers at least, I noticed), but something can probably be salvaged from it. T.PK 06:46, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

== Quick Notes ==

Just some quick notes on the city of Brisbane, Australia - the good points.

• Possibly the cleanest city in Australia.
• Mass Transit facilities including; a massive Bus service, suburb-to-suburb world class Train links, several Taxi services, CityCat's, Boats and Ferries and also Bike/Pedestrian walkways.
• Several 3-5 star Apartments and Hotels including; the largest Apartment in the world currently being buil - the Aurora Tower.
• Close to many Theme Parks and attractions; Botanical Gardens, Alma Park Zoo, Dream World, Sea World, Movie World, Wet n Wild, Kodak Beach, South Bank Parklands and Roma Street Parklands.
• Easy accessible stadiums including; Suncorp Stadium (Lang Park), ANZ Stadium, the GABBA, Brisbane Entertainment Centre, Brisbane Convention Centre, South Bank Piazza and Ballymore.
• Mass shopping centres/malls scattered around Brisbane and also in the City including; Queen Street Mall, Queens Plaza, Myer Centre, Wintergarden Centre, Brookside, Toombul, Indooroopily Westfield, Redbank Plaza, Sunnybank, Toowong etc.

== Land Marks ==

• Storey Bridge. - A steel constructed bridge based on the Jacques Cartier Bridge in Montreal, Canada. One of the most beautiful bridges once lit-up at night time and with a touch of fireworks.

• Central Plaza 1 - essentially Brisbane & Queensland's tallest Office building with 48 stories and sits at 175m. With it's Unique looks, Central Plaza 1 is Brisbane trademark when viewing the skyline of the city. Central Plaza 1 will lose it's title as Brisbane's tallest building in early 2005 once the Riparian Plaza is finished building.

• Waterfront Place - is Brisbane's second tallest building, it is a venue for many Saturday-to-Sunday markets, Restaurants, Nightclubs and coffee shops. The building sit's close to the Brisbane river, and holds commercial organisations within.

• Riverside Centre - Home to Brisbane's office of the Australian Stock Exchange, it sits close to the Brisbane River and like the Waterfront Place holds restaurants and markets.

• Aurora Tower - Will be one of the tallest Residential buildings in the world, and will beat Riparian's title of Brisbane's tallest building, but it will not be Queensland's tallest because of the Gold Coast's Q1 building which is currently the tallest in the world and has just finished construction. The Aurora Tower is a 5 star Residential Hotel with Apartments and Penthouses rising into the thousands of dollars with millionaire views of Brisbane.

• Riparian Plaza - Will become Brisbane's tallest building. The skyscraper will be built in front of Central Plaza 1 and beside the Riverside Centre next to the river. It's built for both Residential and Commercial, 53 levels of pure comfort, and also Penthouses.

• State Law Building - Only 128m tall, the State Law Building remains one of Brisbane's most historic buildings. After it's refurbishment in 1995 where the top piece of the building was added, the building these days is known to many Brisbane locals as Gotham City.

• Brisbane City Hall - From 1930 to the 1960's, the Brisbane City Hall was the tallest building in the city and the most expensive in Australia until the Sydney Opera House was built. The City hall can be seen from the sky's as a Gold Mark in the centre of the Brisbane city, it's unique design is why it's a natural attraction for tourists all over the world. It has four clock dials which sit 180 feet above the tower base, the City hall is currently Heritage listed. The City Hall is one reason why many call Brisbane City as "Bris-Vegas", because if you were to go down a couple of blocks you will find the golden palace of the Treasury Casino. Also, Brisbane is a construction zone for another skyscraper that is due to be developed in mid 2005, the Casino Towers will be built for all of Brisbane including a residential apartment.

• Suncorp Stadium - Hugely recognised stadium which has just been redeveloped into one of the most beautiful stadiums in the world. A host for the Rugby 2003 World Cup, it also is the home of Rugby League powerhouse the Brisbane Broncos and the Queensland Lions.

==Buildings Under Construction==

Brisbane is one of Australia's fastest growing cities in population, and also has plenty of area around the CBD to construct many buildings, may it be residential or commercial. Here are a few:

• Riparian Plaza - The Riparian Plaza will become the tallest skyscraper in Brisbane City on completion but will concede the title to the Aurora Tower. Riparian Plaza will be a staggering 200m tall with a 20m pinnacle point. The building will be used for commerce or residential use and for the money breakers it will have plenty of Penthouses for superb views and 5-star luxury.

• Aurora Tower - Nearly completed, but once it is it will become a national importance concerning the Brisbane Skyline and it is also a trademark. The tallest building in Brisbane and one of the tallest Residential Hotels in the world along with the Gold Coast's Q1, it also boasts luxurious 5-star views and rooms at a very pricey rate.

• Festival Towers - Structural height of approximately 135m with 42 floors will not make the residents of this apartment happy, it will be the looks. The Festival Towers due completion in late 2005, but it will be worth the wait seeing this as one of Brisbane's finest looking towers. http://www.festivaltowers.com.au/content/tower_large.jpg

• Casino Towers - These towers will sit at 129m tall and will contain Residential apartments. A grand total of 207 apartments with penthouses and large balconies. Casino Towers is the future and the benchmark when it is coming to world class apartments, a simply must see on completition.

• Metropole Apartments - A height of 120m tall, the Metropole Apartments holds residential status and amongst completition it will hold a Sky Garden including a BBQ area.

• Observatory Tower - This building will hold a commercial status down the bottom end of the building, a carpark and a podium whilst the rest will contain residential storeys.

• Brisbane Square - Twin 45 storey residential towers and will be occupied by the City Council on 20 floors.

botanic gardens

Is the empty link to "Brisbane botanical gardens" the same as the Brisbane City Botanical Gardens linked to in the entry above it? Fix it by either writing a new article or identifying by full name as above without link. Gene Nygaard 04:55, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Article provided. $eti

-al (renamed both 'Botanical' pages to 'Botanic', updated links as needed) Will expand after sleep... Sendai2ci

media list

This was added to the article, I moved it to talk so it wasn't cluttering up the page, it may also contains some useful information--nixie 06:17, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Television Stations
• ABQ-2 NATIONAL
• BTQ-7 COMMERICAL
• QTQ-9 COMMERICAL
• TVQ-10 COMMERICAL
• SBS-28 COMMERICAL
• BRIZ-31 COMMUNITY
• AM Radio Dial
• 612 4QR Brisbane NATIONAL 50K
• 693 4KQ Brisbane COMMERICAL 5K
• 747 4QS Toowoomba NATIONAL 10K
• 792 RADIO NATIONAL Brisbane NATIONAL 25K
• 864 4GR Toowoomba COMMERICAL 2K
• 882 4BH Brisbane COMMERICAL 1K
• 936 NEWS RADIO Brisbane NATIONAL 10K
• 1008 4TAB Brisbane COMMERICAL 5K
• 1116 4BC Brisbane COMMERICAL 5K
• 1197 SWITCH 1197 AM Brisbane COMMUNITY 1K
• 1296 4RPH Brisbane COMMUNITY 5K
• 1620 RADIO 2 Brisbane COMMERICAL
• 1638 RADIO 16 NTC Brisbane COMMERICAL
• 1701 RADIO BRISVAANI 1701 AM Brisbane COMMUNITY
• FM Radio Dial
• 87.8 VISION-FM Manly Brisbane COMMUNITY 1 Watt
• 88.0 PLANETRADIO Brisbane COMMUNITY
• 88.5 ABC CLASSIC FM Gold Coast NATIONAL 26K
• 88.7 ABC CLASSIC FM Sunshine Coast NATIONAL 20K
• 89.3 4CRB Gold Coast COMMUNITY 25K
• 89.5 JJJ Sunshine Coast NATIONAL 20K
• 89.7 4TAB Beaudesert COMMERICAL 5K
• 90.1 RADIO NATIONAL Gold Coast NATIONAL 26K
• 90.3 COAST-FM Sunshine Coast NATIONAL 20K
• 90.5 REBELFM Beaudesert COMMERICAL 5K
• 90.9 SEA-FM Gold Coast COMMERICAL 25K
• 91.1 HOT 91 Sunshine Coast COMMERICAL 10K
• 91.5 TOOWOOMBA COUNTRY-FM Toowoomba COMMERICAL 1K
• 91.7 COAST-FM Gold Coast NATIONAL 26K
• 91.9 SEA-FM Sunshine Coast COMMERICAL 10K
• 92.1 THE BREEZE Beaudesert COMMERICAL 5K
• 92.5 GOLD-FM Gold Coast COMMERICAL 25K
• 92.7 MIX-FM Sunshine Coast COMMERICAL 10K
• 92.9 RADIO92.9 THE LIGHT Toowoomba COMMUNITY 4K
• 93.3 SBS RADIO Brisbane SBS 96K
• 94.1 RADIO HOPE ISLAND Hope Island COMMUNITY 25K
• 94.5 ABC-RR Northern Rivers NATIONAL 100K
• 94.9 RIVER949 Ipswich COMMERICAL 50K
• 95.3 ABC CLASSIC FM Northern Rivers NATIONAL 100K
• 95.7 NEWS RADIO Gold Coast NATIONAL 26K
• 96.1 JJJ Northern Rivers NATIONAL 100K
• 96.5 FAMILY-FM Brisbane COMMUNITY 12K
• 96.9 RADIO NATIONAL Northern Rivers NATIONAL 100K
• 97.3 97.3FM Brisbane COMMERICAL 12K
• 97.7 JJJ Gold Coast NATIONAL 26K
• 98.1 4EBFM Brisbane COMMUNITY 12K
• 98.9 4AAA Brisbane COMMUNITY 9500
• 99.5 REBELFM Mount Tamborine COMMERICAL 250w
• 99.7 99FM Redcliffe COMMUNITY 2K
• 100.3 BAY-FM Wynnum Redlands COMMUNITY 4K
• 100.7 CFM Toowoomba COMMERICAL 10K
• 101.1 RADIO LOGAN Logan City COMMUNITY 4K
• 101.5 4OUR-FM Caboolture COMMUNITY 3K
• 101.7 ABC CLASSIC FM Southern Downs NATIONAL 80K
• 102.1 4ZZZ Brisbane COMMUNITY 12K
• 102.7 4DDB Toowoomba COMMUNITY 4K
• 102.9 HOT TOMATO Gold Coast COMMERICAL 25K
• 103.3 JJJ Southern Downs NATIONAL 80K
• 103.7 4MBS-FM Brisbane COMMUNITY 12K
• 104.1 JJJ Darling Downs NATIONAL 100K
• 104.5 TRIPLE M Brisbane COMMERICAL 12K
• 104.9 ABC-RR Southern Downs NATIONAL 80K
• 104.9 SUNSHINE-FM Sunshine Coast COMMUNITY 3K
• 105.3 B105 Brisbane COMMERICAL 12K
• 105.7 RADIO NATIONAL Toowoomba NATIONAL 100K
• 106.1 ABC CLASSIC FM Brisbane NATIONAL 96K
• 106.5 RADIO NATIONAL Southern Downs NATIONAL 80K
• 106.5 RHEMA FM Sunshine Coast COMMUNITY 1K
• 106.9 NOVA 106.9 Brisbane COMMERICAL 12K
• 107.3 LIFEFM Gold Coast COMMUNITY 10K
• 107.3 ABC CLASSIC FM Toowoomba NATIONAL 100K
• 107.7 JJJ Brisbane NATIONAL 96K

city of Ipswich was intended to be the capital of Queensland

I was always taught that Redcliffe was the original choice. Redcliffe was the first city settled in Qld but Brisbane was chosen due to its accessibility for large ships (thanks to the Brisbane River).

From here... http://www.margatebiz.com.au/redcliff.html

"Redcliffe was proposed initially as the capital of Queensland, but lacked a suitable deep water entry for large ships and so Brisbane was chosen as the capital instead."

I also thought Redcliffe was the original candidate. It doesn't make any sense to use Ipswich which is an inland city and no boat acccess at all.

I believe Cleveland was intended to be Ipswich's port. Lankiveil 02:26, 26 February 2006 (UTC).

No, it was definitely Ipswich that was to be the capital. Check any standard school history text. I don't know where margatebiz got its info from, but it's plain wrong. However Redcliffe was the location of the first convict settlement, before it was moved to Brisbane. In the 1860's The hamlet of Cleveland pushed to be considered the port, but the mud flats were too broad and would have required extensive dredging. Paddington62 3 March 2006

I have heard stories about Ipswich & stories about Redcliffe. One of us needs to find out for certain which one or if they were both concidered. AussieDingo1983 07:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Brisbane parks and gardens

I've created the Category:Brisbane parks and gardens to help categorise articles on parks and gardens in Brisbane, and allow for easier national and international categorisation.--Takver 4 July 2005 07:45 (UTC)

Notable Brisbanites

Surely we should be able to do better than including Sandra Sully and Savage Garden... Does Daniel Jones qualify as a Brisbanite if he was born in the UK anyway??

What about just a list of world famous bands? - Powderfinger, Regurgitator and some others to name a few. James Pinnell 17:45, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The music bands you mention already have their own article page called Brisbane music groups, to which there is a link, from the Brisbane article, under the heading "Brisbane culture, arts and sport". Figaro 11:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

The main issue I have with the Brisbane article are all these other pages with lists. We need to have actual content, or at least some, on the page before we link off. The section you mention has three links. We should at least list our sporting teams, their stadiums, and the games they play. Put those bands on the actual page. I've put the page up for peer review and I'm betting thats the first thing they mention. James Pinnell 11:41, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Why don't you add information to the page for Brisbane bands on the Brisbane music groups page. There is nothing stopping you from doing that, and developing the pages that you are interested in into something spectacular. In fact, it would be appreciated if you did so. The article page for Brisbane is already far too long, and Wikipedia has pointed out on more than one occasion about the length of the article, with requests that the length of the article be reduced in size. Also, why do you think that Brisbane bands and sports teams are of greater significance than other notable Brisbanites? Other notanle Brisbanites, who are also internationally known and acclaimed, and who are at least as important as Brisbane bands and Brisbane sporting teams, are also on their own separate pages, away from the main Brisbane article. Figaro 22:18, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Due to the comments, by yourself and others, about the music and sports sections being put onto their own individual article pages, all information, in those article pages, has now been returned to the main Brisbane article. Figaro 03.50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I really can't see why we need information on Brisbane bands and musicians in the main Brisbane article. A link to the Brisbane music groups page, as well as a reference to the significance of Brisbane's music scene in developing its culture would be quite sufficient. --Dalziel 86 15:29, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Images

It's great to have a well-illustrated article, but I've deleted two recently-added images because they were:

• interfering with the layout of the page,
• unremarkable, and
• unrepresentative.

The top of the page should show a picture or two of Brisbane (which it now does) with images added through the article to illustrate specific sections and items.--The Brain of Morbius 11:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

The physical impressiveness of a building is not the only criterion by which buildings should be judged. The images which you removed are of buildings which are actually important parts of the heritage of Brisbane, from colonial times, so your judgement above about the buildings was overly hasty. Figaro 00:50, 19 August, 2005 (AEST)

There are already seven images on this page, plenty for this article. The physical impressiveness of the buildings was not the only criterion by which the buildings were judged - in fact I wasn't judging the buildings at all, rather the images themselves and their impact on the page and article. A balance between readability and illustration needs to be maintained. If we can find a relevant part of the article for the images to illustrate then they should go there, not at the top where a casual reader will expect to see an illustration of the city rather than a relatively unimportant building in the city. Please understand that I'm not saying the images shouldn't go on the page - but if they return they should be illustrating a relevant passage of text and not interfere with the layout of the article. Personally, I'd really like to see images of the Queen Street Mall (the busiest and most populous area of the city) and the old convict-built windmill on the page somewhere too

All of the above should of course be read with the words "in my opinion".--The Brain of Morbius 23:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

geez, it's tricky. Brisbane is beautiful, and a few pickies would be good. If we have a few though, I think they should be a bit smaller... do we need to have a 'bris pic of the week' ??? he he... aesthethics, representativeness and historical import all seem like worthy selection criteria. Erich 17:53, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

The captions for the top two pictures are a little obvious. Brisbande by night, and by day? Could it be otherwise. What about relocating the night-time one, and making the daytime one larger? Tony 12:40, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Premature to put this up for featured-article status

Lots of work still required. The authors may wish to ask for editorial assistance by some of the experienced administrators who have painstakingly written and maintained the article on Australia. Tony 06:53, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

One doesn't have to be an administrator to work hard (or to be experienced) ;-). But yes, this article isn't ready for featured status. It seems it will be referred to Wikipedia:Peer review.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 07:11, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

A Few Quibbkes

Brisbane Annual Events include: Brisbane Exhibition Agricultural Show or "Ekka", which is held in August Brisbane RiverFire Festival which is held in September

The festival is called RiverFest, RiverFire is the event that begins the festival (fireworks++ and jet flyover etc)

What of the Queensland Cultural Centre (consisting of QPAC, Stat Library, The Museum and Art Gallery) What of Southbank Parklands or Roma Street Parklands smadge1 04:37, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

There are pages for all of these on Wikipedia — Ekka, Riverfestival (which contains mention of Riverfire), Queensland Cultural Centre, QPAC, State Library of Queensland, Queensland Museum, Queensland Art Gallery, South Bank Parklands and Roma Street Parkland.

No doubt it will offend some people, but the photos on the above articles were taken by an analogue camera as well as a digital camera. The analogue photos were taken before I owned a digital camera (and were taken before I had even heard of Wikipedia). Figaro 04:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Pronounciation of Brisbane and IPA symbols

Not every browser is able to cope with IPA symbols. If IPA symbols are the only means whereby the pronunciation of the name of Brisbane is given, then those people with browsers incapable of reading IPA symbols will be left in ignorance of the proper pronunciation. It is for this reason that it is important to have alternative means for these people to know the correct pronunciation. This is the reason for the inclusion of briz'bun as the pronunciation of the name. Those with browsers capable of reading IPA symbols can use those symbols. Those with browsers incapable of reading IPA symbols can use the alternative that has been supplied. The reason why I am aware that some browsers do not recognise IPA symbols is because my own browser does not recognise the IPA symbols.
Figaro 10:55 4 October, 2005 (UTC)

There's something wrong with their display at present, that's true. Formerly, I was able to see them, and now I can't. But we simply can't have ad-hoc, jerry-rigged pronunciation guides throughout the encyclopedia, particularly when we're not intended only for native English speakers. I'm afraid the other pronunciation guide isn't necessarily very informative.

And at any rate, it's not a huge problem if it's misprounced. Someone can always do a spoken version of the article. Slac speak up! 19:40, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, whatever happened to using SAMPA, an ASCII-based alternative to the IPA? SAMPA used to be quite common in Wikipedia articles - I think it may even have been used on the Brisbane article a couple of years ago. Perhaps a SAMPA pronounciation can be used in conjunction with an IPA example? Using pronounciation guides like "briz-BUHN" or "brizbun" is extremely ambiguous and should be avoided. --Humehwy 08:27, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm not the biggest fan of SAMPA. It's actually not a great way to transcribe IPA. I think we'd far better off with readable IPA characters than with SAMPA. Slac speak up! 19:41, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Possible (Drastic) Improvements

- Suburbs

Information on the various areas and neighborhoods of Brisbane. Details on socio-economic problems and improvements. Nothing indepth, but at least some basic information on areas outside of the CBD. At the moment it looks like any old tiny city you'd find, we need to flesh out the areas.

- Transport section needs a complete overhaul.

The transport section is poor. We need to separate and breakdown each area of transport (Roads including freeways, bypasses and motorways), Taxis, Buses, Trains, Ferries and Airports. I've quickly amended the airport information for the time being - It's not "Brisbane International Airport" - its simply "Brisbane Airport", separated into two facilities for both International and Domestic flights as noted on the BAC Website. I didn't mention the new Shopping Mall there or the $280 million upgrade in progress just yet, I figured I'd wait for responses to this first.

- Section on Nightlife under Tourism

Details about the Valley and City clubbing, including information on the lockout and anti-smoking laws. Also, as an addition, mentioning Brisbane as a gateway between the coasts.

I just revised the section on popular entertainment, to remove most of what seemed like something straight out of a tour guide. I'm also arguing once again for the removal of the list of Brisbane bands/musicians. The most significant ones can be mentioned briefly in the text, but if there's that many, they deserve an article of their own, possibly incorporating material related to Andrew Stafford's Pig City: From The Saints To Savage Garden. --Dalziel 86 03:20, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

- Maybe a section about famous facts about Brisbane?

I read an article in the Brisbane News about our film cameos - Did you know that "The Matrix" was suppost to be filmed here but the brothers decided it was too clean even though they loved it?

Feel free to cross check me or add anything I've missed. We missed out on a featured page because its simply too thin - definately improved over the year but still not up to the world class pages of other major cities.

James Pinnell 18:05, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but this article is a long way off featured quality. It needs substantial copyediting as well as new material. Examine other city articles closely. Slac speak up! 19:00, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree with most of the things mentioned here. I think this article is starting to deteriorate. If you extrapolate a bit, the article will end up being nothing but a list of Wiki links to other articles about Brisbane, with the main article giving nothing substantial about Brisbane but being clogged with photos of varying quality. I would like to say though, that I appreciate some people's efforts -- I wish I had the time and inclination to put the same effort in. Some things I think should be added:

1. Brisbane "lifestyle". Nothing is mentioned about Brisbane's relaxed, subtropical atmosphere -- I know such things are subjective, but they ought to be mentioned. It's what makes Brisbane special!
2. Return some info put away into other articles. e.g. Brisbane sport, Brisbane art and culture, etc. To see the major sports teams in Brisbane, you need to go to a separate article.

Not good.

1. Pictures of transport. e.g. a busway station or a QR CityTrain or something similar.

That's all I can think of right now. --Humehwy 01:26, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Due to the comments, by yourself and others, about the music and sports sections being put onto their own individual article pages, all information, in those article pages, has now been returned to the main Brisbane article. Figaro 03.50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

To get featured this article should look at getting organised along the lines of Ann Arbor, Michigan (a recently featured city) or Canberra (which will be put up for nomination sometime in the near future). Crucial to the FAC process is good writing and this article is far too list heavy.--nixie 01:37, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree with all these comments after my own - this page needs a drastic rewrite. There's already a WikiProject listed for Brisbane under the Australia section but its not being used. Anyone interested in dedicating some time to this? James Pinnell 02:40, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I just re-wrote the entire transport section and added to the Newspapers section. Its not perfect but I think personally thats its a lot better then before. Feel free to change and edit bits as you see fit. James Pinnell 07:05, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

• Just a note to self to add major companies who either headquarter or have a significant presence in Brisbane for the economy section, as well as information on Queens Plaza for Tourism. James Pinnell 07:08, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Brisbane Population

Brisbane's official metro population is approximately 1.77 million according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics. The 2.47 million figure includes the Gold Coast which is not in the metro, so I'm not sure why this figure is being used.

I noticed that - the greater metropolitan area doesn't include a separate city an hour away. I think the population should be changed to 1.8. James Pinnell 02:40, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

This is the second time that the population has been listed as 2.4 million. The addition of the term 'urban agglomeration' does not change the fact that this is incorrect, since strictly Brisbane isn't the name of one. Brisbane is, however, part of the agglomeration of South-East Queensland which has a population of about 2.7 million. SEQ is the only name it goes by - to represent the entire region as 'Brisbane' a mistruth. The ABS is the most reliable source for population information is Australia, thus it is the source that should be used here.

I don't like the way this is explained. Anyone reading the articles for other capital cities would look at this and think Sydney's population is 4 times the size of Brisbane. That simply isn't correct. Sydney's 4.3Million figure includes an entire conglomeration of cities too, yet in the Sydney article the term 'metropolitain area' is used to describe the area occupied by these 4.3 million people. The truth is, only 147K people actually vote for the lord mayor of Sydney. 950K ppl vote for the Lord Mayor of Brisane. If people are going to compare like with like we need consistent wording.

It is true that there is a significant difference between Brisbane and all the other capital cities, in that much more of the metro population consists of people with in actual Brisbane. However, the people that define population (the ABS) make the rule and they say that Brisbane has 1.77 people. It is likely that in the future the Gold Coast will be included in this figure, but that is not yet the case. $eti 3:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

"The Brisbane City Council area has approximately 957,010 inhabitants, within a greater urban agglomeration population of 1.77 million people"

The way I understand it, is that ¨Brisbane¨, for the purposes of population, is the same as ¨Greater Brisbane¨ which includes Caboolture, Pine Rivers, Redcliffe, Redlands, Logan, and possibly one or two more, but not Gold Coast, Caloundra, Maroochy, or Noosa. I don´t think any capital cities only count the central City Council. To my understanding people from places like Pine Rivers (Shire Council) consider themselves Brisbanites, though I could be wrong. I doubt many Gold Coast residents consider themselves Brisbanites (unless they come from here). But the whole thing is somewhat controversial anyway and we´ll probably never get a clear agreeable definition, esp. with more and more places growing into one another. AussieDingo1983 07:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Images for Transport, Tourism

Does anyone have any recent imagery of Buses/Trains or knows of any public sources of such? The transport section looks very text based since I re-wrote it and I would love to add some pictures to liven it up. James Pinnell 07:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I added a STACK of new images and changed the placements of them and others based on the placings on other successful city pages. I think it looks better? James Pinnell 18:00, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Roma Street Parkland

The article on Roma Street Parkland has 10 (yes 10) photos which would have to be considered as low quality. They are not clear, have no interest in terms of composition, and do not give any overview of the park. (I know there are several places in the park which afford panoramic views.) Removed once, they have been replaced by Figaro, who considered their removal vandalism. Should such low quality illustrations, in such numbers, stay there?

There should be no more than 2 or 3 considering several of them are pretty much of the same thing. In the actual Brisbane article itself, the BEC picture is quite horrible and not representative.

If both of you (220.253.92.188 and $eti) consider my photos to be of such 'low quality' and 'quite horrible', why don't you donate your own photos to Wikipedia. To criticize the quality of photos from other members of Wikipedia, while not bothering to supply your own photos to Wikipedia, is hypocritical. Anyway, the correct place for a discussion about the Roma Street Parkland article is Talk:Roma Street Parkland, the discussion page for Roma Street Parkland. Figaro 00:43, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I have provided photos to this and other articles, seemingly all of which have since been replaced by better and more representative images. Hypocrisy by definition is to pretend to hold a belief whilst not actually doing so, and this hardly fits my criticism of the images - It was not a good picture. $eti)

The fact that $eti has not been able to provide photos is no justification to speak in this manner. I appreciate your efforts Figaro, but many of the photos you take are not of the very high quality that I think is necessary for Wikipedia. An otherwise uninteresting photo of some random flower pot in Roma Street Parklands is not encyclopædic. Lankiveil 02:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC).

It is interesting that the only record of any photo submitted by you to Wikipedia is that of the CityCat photo, Image:CityCat-4.jpg, which you donated to Wikipedia on 19 November, 2005, and which you then donated to the Brisbane article — eight days after I commented that you had not donated any photos. Unless you have been donating photos to Wikipedia under another user name (i.e. as a 'sockpuppet'), then I cannot see what other photos, or articles, you are talking about. I also notice that you have not dated your comment above, which you wrote on 3 December - after you had donated the photo and added it to the article. Anyway, your CityCat photo is still in use - where it now resides in the Brisbane Transport article, where it was moved to, which you would have discovered had you chosen to check the information given on the page on file links for the image that you supplied.

With regard to the photo of the Brisbane Entertainment Centre, which you say is not a good one, exactly which photo have you taken of this particular building, and when are you going to contribute it to Wikipedia? Incidentally, I have removed the image from the Brisbane article, because it should not have been put there - it was not removed from the article because of your criticism of the image. Figaro 12:04, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it is important to keep in mind that for people with dial-up connections, pictures take time to download, and so pictures shouldn't be included unless they are on reasonable quality, and unless they are relevant to the article, and demonstrate something about the subject matter. It isn't helpful just to upload pictures simply because you can, especially if they don't portray something relevant and not of reasonable quality. I can't actually see any pictures online at the moment (I don't know whether it is my computer being funny, or something wrong with the internet) so I can't comment on the specific pictures being discussed, but thought that this general guiding principle was worth putting forward. Also, criticising others for not contributing photos isn't helpful. Just because somebody may not have a digital camera or other hardware, may live somewhere far away or isn't able to contribute photos for whatever other reason doesn't preclude them from being able to make valid comments on the value of photographic contributions by others. -- Adz|talk 03:02, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who was being criticised for not using a digital camera. I did not own a digital camera on the one and only time that I have, so far, had a chance to be able to visit the Parklands. The person who removed the photos removed every single photo, and criticised the photos because they were taken with an analogue camera. The person in question effectively stated that photos taken with an analogue camera were not good enough for Wikipedia. I pointed out that that was a ridiculous statement because in many cases, analogue photos are all that are, or can ever be, available.

The only reason that I suggested the person in question upload his own photos of Roma Street Parkland is because he stated that panorama photos, which he was insisting that I supply for the article, were easy to take.

Why should I not request that he and $eti (who have criticised my photo contributions) upload their own photos, considering that they obviously believe their own photos to be of such vastly superior quality to my own? Figaro 05:02, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Possibly because $eti may not live in Brisbane therefore unable to contribute photos of Brisbane?????--robz0r 11:12, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

$eti has stated that he is studying Biochemistry at the University of Queensland. Figaro 11:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Art and Literature

Why was the Art and Literature section removed? Come on, if we can have a Theatre and Stage section, we can have an Arts and Literature section. --Dalziel 86 05:12, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks to Figaro for returning the Arts and Literature content in the new Creative Arts section. I'm wondering if perhaps that section could benefit from being replaced by a summary and a link to a main article on Creative Arts/Culture in Brisbane. Anyone? --Dalziel 86 09:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Popular Entertainment inclusions

What is the criteria for adding artists to this section? I recently added a couple of Brisbane most popular electronic artists and then they were removed, with the suggestion that they were not popular. I am not familiar with all the artists in that section, yet I wouldn't remove them. Electronic and techno musicians have a large following even if they are not mainstream. Shouldn't they be included as well? - Shiftchange 02:29, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Do the artists have existing articles on Wikipedia? if they're notable enough for that, then they can be considered notable enough to be included in the list. That said, I'm not in favour of such a list being a part of the main Brisbane article in the first place... --Dalziel 86 05:55, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I did check, and none of the three you added have Wikipedia articles. There's also not whole lot in the way of Google results. So, yeah, I'd say they probably don't meet the notability criteria for inclusion, I'm afraid. --Dalziel 86 11:09, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Largest Municipality

I tried to add something about this but i'm not sure how to word it because I don't really understand what that means. According to the BCC website, Brisbane is the largest municipality in Australia.

The City of Brisbane, with around 957,000 inhabitants, is the most populous Local Government Area in Australia. It is not the largest. I believe the Guinness Book of Records gives that honour to the City of Mount Isa, Queensland. --Humehwy 05:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)#

No sorry. The city of Kalgoorlie-Boulder is more than twice the size of mount isa.194.46.239.182 16:58, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Have you considered the possibility that they might mean that Brisbane has a higher population than any other municipality in Australia? Figaro 04:42, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

That is what they mean, although it was a perfectly legitimate question to ask (it could have referred to area or some other measure - although there are definitely other municipalities which are larger). They mean that the Brisbane City Council has more residents than any other local government area in the country. They probably also mean that it has a larger budget than any other Local Government in the country. I have often heard it said that BCC has a budget bigger than that of the State of Tasmania (and I suppose that of the ACT, and possibly NT, although would need to do research). -- Adz 05:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The population/area/density numbers don't work

The area in the infobox times the population density stated comes to 517,667, but the population shown is more than three times that. Rhollenton 00:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. What is the source of this information? Based on the population figures the density should be 1302.2/Km^262.254.168.102 13:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Restructure

The 'Creative Arts', Theatre and Stage and Popular Entertainment sections don't work well with lists of artists/institutions and no prose. I suggest creating a separate page/article called something like Culture in Brisbane and moving everything under these three sections there for now. Then I would re-write a new section called culture and include a few of the highlights. I've cobbled together the text below, but it could be improved with a bit of work. The culture section needs to look more like Canberra#Culture if this is going to become a featured article. -- Adz 15:01, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Brisbane has a strong cultural identity in art, sculpture, literature, poetry and music. Many of the city’s cultural institutions were established during the time of the 1988 World Expo when the State Gallery and Museum were built on the Expo site. Many of the sculptures commissioned at the time of the expo remain around parts of the city. Significant Galleries include the Queensland Art Gallery and Gallery of Modern Art, both located on the Expo site at Southbank. The City’s universities also contain art galleries. The Queensland Performing Arts Centre, also located at Southbank, is Brisbane’s main theatre. Other smaller theatres are located in the city, these include the Brisbane Arts Theatre, and the Metro Arts Theatre. The Powerhouse is a modern arts complex located on the Brisbane River at New Farm. There are also several theatres located at the universities. The Queensland Theatre Company is based in Brisbane.

The Queensland Orchestra and Queensland Youth Orchestras are based in Brisbane, as is the Queensland Conservatorium of Music (part of Griffith University).

Brisbane has a vibrant live music scene and has produced notable bands such as The Bee Gees, Custard, Savage Garden and Powderfinger. Brisbane's nightlife today is a thriving and varied mix of pubs, clubs, themed bars, and various other venues. There are two main areas of focus: The "City" (CBD) and the "Valley" (Fortitude Valley). While the city typically consists of venues catering to those with a more traditional taste in music or atmosphere, the Valley typically offers a drastically different, more cosmopolitan selection of places.

Brisbane has produced a number of significant Australian authors, among them: Thea Astley, David Malouf and Nick Earls.

Actually, these 'creative arts', 'performing arts' and 'popular entertainment' sections (along with the section for 'Brisbane sport') have already been established as separate articles to the main Brisbane article, but there were complaints and pressure exerted because of this move. As a result of this, the sections were re-established as part of the main Brisbane article.

Your text comment above makes it appear that most of Brisbane Culture is less than 20 years old and that it only 'sprang into being' as a result of Brisbane hosting World Expo '88. The truth is that Brisbane Culture is between 100 and 150 years old.

With regard to the State's gallery and museum, both of these institutions have a long-time tradition (e.g. the Queensland Museum was founded in 1862). Both the Queensland Art Gallery and Queensland Museum were transferred to their present locations at South Bank years before Expo '88. Neither of them is on the Expo site as you have claimed they are. With regard to the Queensland Conservatorium of Music, the institution was based in the building housing the Basil Jones Theatre (later renamed as the QUT Gardens Theatre), before transferring to the building at South Bank Parklands when the Conservatorium merged with Griffith University. Figaro 00:18, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Excellent! That's the sort of information that should go into the article. I only wrote it based on what I had heard an my limited knoledge. (note I said that I'd cobbled it together and that it could do with soem work), My main point was simply to suggest that it should be in prose. As it is at the moment, it is just a bunch of lists and doesn't present very much information at all. It would be good to get some consensus on the format it should take and whether to split the bulk of it off into a separate article. ... I think that the various education sections should be merged as well and converted into prose. It might be worth having a look at how some other city articles deal with Educattion/Culture/Sport sections, such as Sydney, Boston, Massachusetts, Ann Arbor, Michigan. -- Adz 07:00, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree with Adz. I noticed the Gold Coast is in a similar situation; although there are good editors committed to working on the article, its structure is poorly formulated. The main hindrance in this article (Brisbane) is the number of lists and the excess of headings. If the intent of all the work going into this article is to at some point have it featured, it would be advisable to follow the example set by existing featured articles on cities. Mumbai, Ann Arbor and Canberra are all good templates for Brisbane, with the latter two providing a good compromise on headings. The following is a structure I think could be easily implemented here:

• History
• Geography
  • Climate
• Governance (or alternatively Government/Politics/Government and Politics)
• Economy
• People (covering education and demographics)
• Culture (with other sub-headings as necessary)
  • Media
  • Sport
• Infrastructure
  • Health
  • Transport
  • Utilities
• Notes and References
• External Links

A three-paragraph introduction seems to be standard across featured articles too, usually detailing population, location, brief history, importance. Is this agreeable?--cj | talk 12:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Pursuant to my above comment, I have restructured the article and transfered many of the lists to separate articles (all remain linked). Much work remains to be done, particularly with regards to rewritting the culture section and trimming the infrastructure section considerably. The article is now of a more acceptable size too - it was previously touching on 60kb. Happy editing, --cj | talk 08:00, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted to an earlier version. I intend to check through to see how it can improved, and I will check the changes suggested by others, and take on those changes which are appropriate. Figaro 15:59, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but your comment sounds like you're asserting ownership. You're of course free to review the changes and make further edits yourself, but you don't get a veto. There's no valid reason to blanket revert work which has greatly improved this article over the last two days. Moreover, the intention to restructure was noted here more than week before implementation.--cj | talk 16:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

The reason why I said that I reverted the article and would take on those changes suggested which were appropriate, is because I am from Brisbane and I know Brisbane as a result of this. I am not asserting what you have referred to as "ownership" (your "ownership" insinuation is, in fact, insulting). Brisbane people know Brisbane better than non-Brisbanites. I would not presume to assume a greater authority in editing a page about a city or state in which I did not live than the residents of that city.

A good example of the reason why it is preferable that Brisbane people edit the Brisbane page is the editing of the Culture section of the page by Cyberjunkie. Cyberjunkie's addition to that particular section contained several factual errors which should never have been included on the page in the first place. Adz had previously suggested the text that Cyberjunkie subsequently added to the page. I refuted the mistakes in Adz's comments on 11 December, last year, long before Cyberjunkie used the incorrect comments on the page, so Cyberjunkie should have been aware that what he was writing was wrong. Figaro 15:37, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I note 203.101.227.246 has similar editing interests to Figaro. It'd be a shame if sock puppetry came into play.--cj | talk 16:48, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Sock puppetry hasn't come into play, so there is no need for you to worry. Figaro 00:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Governance

When I edited the comment on the Brisbane metropolitan area, it was genuinely misinformation. It read:

The Brisbane metroplitan area included several other local government areas including Redland Shire, Logan City, Ipswich, Pine Rivers Shire and Redcliffe.

Figaro 00:52, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Coprighted image

I have tagged the image Image:Water gu.jpg as lacking proper licensing info, it will be deleted in 7 days. --Martyman-(talk) 02:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Storey Bridge commercial links/Advertising?

I've changed a reference to the Storey Bridge Climb in the landmarks & tourist attractions section. It read a little bit like an advertisment. I moved the external commercial link to inline text, but I think it should be removed altogether. Could other people please take a look at it and see if you agree? Thanks. -- Adz|talk 11:20, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the official name of the bridge is the Story Bridge, named after John Douglas Story, (who is perhaps better known as J. D. Story). Figaro 14:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Resolving Climate Figures - Rain Days

I've lived in sub-tropical regions for most of my life but have resided in a temperate region for the past 5 years. A rain day in Brisbane usually means a 30 minute storm at almost exactly 5:00pm before which the sky was perfectly blue and after which the sky is perfect blue again. A rain day in Melbourne or London means just that, it rains or at least is overcast for the entire day. I'm not suggesting we do anything to the BOM figures in the article but I do believe some kind of explanation is warranted. Any ideas? Factoid Killer 02:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

A rain day in Brisbane sometimes means a 30 minute storm, only, as you say, but this is not always the case. Often it rains for days non-stop (or with only brief intervals of dry weather). Figaro 04:17, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I realise that but typically it is a 30 min storm. At least it is during the storm season. I lived in Brisbane for 25 years. Factoid Killer 04:22, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Then I am surprised that you state that rain typically comes in a 30 minute storm at almost exactly 5:00pm. When we do have these storms, they can occur much earlier (even in the morning or the early afternoon) or much later, even well into the night. There have been days when we have had a number of storms.

The storms do not always last for 30 minutes, either. Some of the storms can last for a number of hours. On Christmas Day last year, a storm started before 5.00 pm, and lasted to well after 6.00 pm.

I moved to Brisbane when I was 4 years old, and I still live in Brisbane, so I know what I am talking about when I comment on the weather here.

I lived through the floods of 1974, when we had continual rain for about 3 weeks, in connection with Cyclone Wanda, and I remember the time distinctly. One of our trees was flattened by the passing of the cyclone on its way down the coast. Figaro 06:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

OK I get your point and when dealing with weather issues it can be very dangerous to go down the path of using anecdotal evidence to make a point. However, I'm sure you'll agree that a typical rain day recorded in Brisbane does not equate to a typical rain day recorded in London. The problem is that when we talk about weather, what sticks out in everyone's minds are the extreme conditions. I'm not really sure how to address this if at all. That's why I posted this discussion here. Factoid Killer 14:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Just to clear things up on this issue of "raindays", a rainday is defined by the BOM as, (and I quote): "A "rainday" is one with a daily rainfall of at least 0.2 mm" [1]. Aggelophoros 11:27, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly my point. It doesn't tell us whether that .2mm is unleased in 15 mins following and followed by a perfect blue sky or unleashed slowly in a temperate drizzle accompanied by an overcast sky that lasts all day long. Factoid Killer 13:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Level 3 Drought

We've just entered level 3 of our worst drought, so it's now buckets only. Should this be mentioned?

Landmarks and tourist destinations

How come this section has re-inflated into list form? It needs to be either rewritten in prose, or again cut from the article.--cj | talk 06:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Temperatures

Can we get a Fahrenheit temperature on this, and likely other pages as well? There are those who don't use Celsius measurements... --JamesR1701E 06:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Ha! now you know how we feel all the time! I'm sorry, but 30 degrees should be hot weather! :P Slac speak up! 07:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason why you couldn't add old fashioned temperature measurements. Feel free to also add old fashioned rainfall measurements. Make my grandparents happy. Sofixit. Factoid Killer 19:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Confusing Metropolitan area and City

I know Brisbane city itself is a particularly large municipality but satelite cities are still taken into accoutn when referring to the greater metropolitan area.

A casual reader looking at this article and attempting to compare it to the Sydney and Melbourne articles is going to be very confused.

To the best of my knowledge the 1363 km² figure for the cities area applies only to the municpality of Brisbane. So firstly, this figure should be replaced by the figure for the metropolitan area.

I take it the claim that Brisbane's surface area is the largest of all capitals is a comparison of the Brisbane City Council to City of Sydney and City of Melbourne (and others)?

Suggested Changes

• Everything relating to the Brisbane Municipality needs to go into an article called City of Brisbane.
• The Brisbane City Council article should be an article about the Brisbane city council as oposed to the city of brisbane.
• The Brisbane article should be an article about the Brisbane Metropolitan area and thus it should NOT contain any information about:
  • Sister Cities
  • Coats of Arms
  • Flags of Brisbane City
  • Statistics relevant only to the Brisbane municipality
  • Information about the Lord Mayor (metropolitan areas don't have lord mayors)

And furthermore, it should contain:

• • Statistics relevant to the wider Brisbane Metroplitan area
  • General information about the city as a whole

These changes will bring Brisbane in line with all of the other Australian capital city articles. It will also ease cunfusion in claims such as the one we're making about the surface area of the city. We claim it's the largest at 1363. The casual observer then goes to Sydney to see a claim of 12 145 km².

Lets vote on it shall we? Factoid Killer 10:56, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

If you make this article about the areas government by Brisbane City Council this article will be significatly different from all the other Australian capital cities whos articles discuss the statistical district. It will make the capital city articles inconsistent for Australia, which in my opinion makes this a bad suggestion.--nixie 07:29, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Right.... except for the part implying that that's what I suggested. What I said is that this article should be about that greater metropolitan area and NOT about the city council. And that there should be another article called City of Brisbane that deals with the municipality of Brisbane. At the moment this article is trying to do both. The Sydney and Melbourne articles don't do that. Rather than repeat myself perhaps you should read my comments again. Factoid Killer 13:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

There is no need to vote. This is the standard, but Brisbane and Perth articles have yet to be brought completely into line. Brisbane City Council should be merged into City of Brisbane.--cj | talk 15:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Founding Of Brisbane

Didn't Thomas Phamphlett discover the Bisbane River? Him and his two friends? It was in a book, 'Thomas Phamplett, Convict and Castway' which was in an Brisbane Council Library ironically. The article should pay attention to that as if it wasn't for Thomas Phamplett John Oxley would have never dicovered the River.

Obvious error in the infobox

At least one of the population/population density numbers is wrong because they don't come close to tieing up. ReeseM 07:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Extrapolating linearly from (ABS 1387.3) Queensland in review, 2003 we see that the population density figure is 'about right' for the corresponding increase in population. So I'd say the figure for Land Area is incorrect. Anyone care to calculate the area as per (ABS 1252.0.55.001) ASGC 2003? sendai 02:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, we both could have read up and found that there has been some discussion regarding what this article pertains to; which would influence the figures somewhat. But hey, to err and all, and the corresponding article (Brisbane City Council) also has inconsistent figures. Factoid Killer When are we having that vote? sendai 02:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Largest Municipality (again)

I've removed the claim that Brisbane is the second largest municipality by area. The local Gov't Association website says that East Pilbara Shire is the largest by area. If Mt Isa is also bigger than Brisbane (see discussion above), then Brisbane isn't teh second biggest. I would be very surprised if there weren't a number of municipalities - particularly rural ones - bigger than Brisbane. -- 202.161.21.191 04:44, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible to say that the City of Brisbane (ie. the area administered by BCC) is Australia's largest metropolitan municipality in terms of area? BrightLights 06:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

wow

good article :)

internet

I've added a section within the media/radio bit about infrastructure and telecommunications. To me it fills out the section a bit more and shows that Brisbane is as technologically advanced/up-to-date as any world city out there. --58.104.223.30 13:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Great Dividing Range?

It is stated in the intro to the article that Brisbane extends from Moreton Bay to the Great Dividing Range. That would put the Western border of Brisbane at around Kingaroy. The Great Dividing Range (that separates the Eastern flowing rivers from the Western that go either to the Gulf of Carpentaria or to the Murray Darling Basin) is, in our region, comprised by ranges such as the Bunya Mountains. I'll look in on this article in a couple of weeks and will, unless otherwise edited, will replace with the term "Queensland's Coastal Range". --MichaelGG 09:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

climate chart

The recently added climate chart is difficult to read. The resolution is poor - even when it is viewed as a large image - and is almost impossible to read when it appears as a small image. I think the information contained within it is useful, but perhaps it could be represented as a series of graphs. Perhaps on or two could appear on this page and the rest could be included in a separate article about the climate of Brisbane. The information within the graphs would be better presented if sumarised in words and in the table already on the page. How do people feel about removing the graphic? -- Adz|talk 00:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The chart duplicates some info contained in the table, and therefore is not adding anything new to the article. I think the current climate table is sufficient enough. Looking at other Australian capital city articles, Brisbane's climate table is as comprehensive as Melbourne's and certainly more detailed than the tables in the Sydney and Canberra articles. BrightLights 05:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I support the chart removal - it doesn't add any more information and clutters up the page $eti 04:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Take it out. It doesn't add much, and it screws up page layout. I'll come back in about a week; if no one has objected, I'm taking it out. Woodstein52 00.11, 22 Sept 2006 (UTC)

Statistics in intro

I removed this edit from the intro. (text below). It is unreferenced, but I suspect that it may refer to the CBD or the Brisbane city ABS statistical area. It definitely does not refer to the city as a whole. If the source can be referenced then perhaps the info can be included in the Brisbane central business district article. -- Adz|talk 11:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The size of Brisbane is approximately 3 km². It has 4 parks covering nearly 8% of the total area. There are 10 schools and 3 childcare centres located in Brisbane. The population of Brisbane in 1996 was 3,890 people. By 2001 the population was 5,829 showing a population growth of 50% in the area during that time. The predominant age group in Brisbane is 20 - 29 years.

Households in Brisbane are primarily couples without children and are likely to be repaying over $2000.00 per month on mortgage repayments. In general, people in Brisbane work in a professional occupation. In 1996, 29% of the homes in Brisbane were owner-occupied compared with 29% in 2001.

Currently the median sale price of houses in the area is $506,000.

Besides the debate over its relevance, it made the intro far too long and really, to be honest, doesn't need to stay in the article unless it's updated regularily IMO. --James Pinnell 08:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Structure

This article is beginning to stray quite severely from the recommended structure. I plan to edit the article back to that standard unless the degeneration is otherwise addressed. Thanks, --cj | talk 02:51, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I think we just need a proper plan of how the specific sections are addressed and how they need to be changed. Once a section is completed, it shouldn't be drastically edited/removed/changed unless voted by the editing community. Bit by bit the page could be completed properly and may actually (finally) end up being featured :) --James Pinnell 08:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

How about we start by summarising the various transport sections, and retaining the information by creating a new Transport in Brisbane article? The we can do the same with the Media, Communications and internet sections. Does that sound reasonable? Annual events can probably be rolled into 'Life in Brisbane' and renamed culture. That might be a start. -- Adz|talk 10:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

As suggested, I have moved the annual events section into the 'Life in Brisbane' section and renamed the section.

With regard to your suggested new Transport in Brisbane article, there is already a Brisbane Transport article. Figaro 23:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Brisbane Transport deals with the division of the Brisbane City Council that administers public transport in the city. I was thinking of an article more along the lines of Transport in Melbourne, Transport in London or Transportation in New York City. These articles deal with public transport, road infrastructure, (major freeways etc), bridges, airports and seaports, etc. The transport section in the Brisbane article would only have to briefly mention that some of these things exist, and the detail would be contained in the main article. (see the transport sections in the London, Melbourne or New York City articles for example. I'm happy to do most of this edditing if you give me a couple of days to get around to it. -- Adz|talk 01:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

As you can see, I've started on re-working the Transport section and have transferred all the content to Transport in Brisbane. I think both the T'port section in the main article, as well as the new article could do with a lot of work. I haven't lived in Brisbane for several years so would appreciate it if somebody went over it and checked that it is factually correct. In particular, we need to find references if either article is ever to be featured. -- Adz|talk 14:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I feel that your edit killed a lot of the major points from my original edit. I'm going to try and keep the structure but fill in some of the relevant information you removed. James Pinnell 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Now might be a good time to start to transform it into an Infrastructure section. It's excellent to see the transport section looking more ordered, although it's still far from concise. The summary style is applicable to this article.--cj | talk 17:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I've created the Infrastructure section, and added "Health" and "Utilities". Also - is there any point to listing all of our tv stations and radio stations? Can we include that in a separate section? It's really quite useless and ugly.James Pinnell 08:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Nickname details were discarded

May I suggested that the contributions that were inexplicably gutted out of the article during this edit be restored to the current article.

Interpreting the meaning of symbols can be subjective and controversial at the best of times, but unless you people can provide a good reason for hiding the historical context in which Brisbane's nicknames were invented, I'd say my interpretation should be put back into the article. I don't think anyone would disagree with the accuracy of the interpretation, it's just that one person thought it wasn't important enough despite the unlimited space we have available for obscure details such as this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.63.48.69 (talk • contribs)

As you've observed, the content that was deleted is not only subjective and controversial, but also speculative. It would therefore not pass the criteria for a good article, namely, the requirements that:

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. In this respect:

(a) it provides references to any and all sources used for its material;

(b) the citation of its sources is essential, and the use of inline citations is desirable, although not mandatory;

(c) sources should be selected in accordance with the guidelines for reliable sources;

(d) it contains no elements of original research.

3. It is broad in its coverage. In this respect :

(a) it addresses all major aspects of the topic (this requirement is slightly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required by WP:FAC, and allows shorter articles and broad overviews of large topics to be listed);

(b) it stays focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary details (no non-notable trivia).

On that basis, I think that there is a good reason for leaving it out. If you were able to find sources and provide credible references for the information, then I'd suggest creating a new article about nicknames for Brisbane, and seeing if it survives being put up as an Article for deletion. (I'm not saying that it would be put up for AfD, but it might. I think it would probably survive if it was referenced). -- Adz|talk 14:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I see little sense in creating an article for the sole purpose of listing the nicknames of a city. If they are indeed verifiable, it seems elementary to simply put a small, bracketed comment after the initial sentence saying words to the effect of "also known as pancakeville for its abundance of pankcakes". (please don't ask me to verify "pankcakeville", that was an example.)

 Exemplar Sententia. 02:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Top High Schools

What are the top high schools in Brisbane? ~Sushi 04:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure, but I think I would rather that they not be mentioned in the article. There was briefly a list of schools on the Melbourne page and it degenerated into daily edits between school kids who wanted to promote their school as being better than other schools. It would be better to have a description of the school system along the lines of that in the Melbourne article. -- Adz|talk 13:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It depends whether your looking for private schools or public ones, the ones below are public, but some of the top private ones i have listed.

Brisbane Grammar School Brisbane Girls Grammar School Brisbane Boys College Somerville House Anglican Church Grammar School (Churchie) St Aidans Anglican Girl's School

ps. these are just listed in random order.

Here are some Brisbane High Schools:

• Wavell Heights High School
• Craigslea State High School
• Kelvin Grove State College
• Brisbane State High School
• Mansfield State High School

Unknown User 00:13, 6 October 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.67.116.121 (talk • contribs) .

Brisbane schools are listed in List of schools in Queensland, so there is no need to duplicate a listing of them here. Figaro 21:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be an idea to either list a few notable ones, or at the very least, actually reference the List of schools in Queensland article in the main Brisbane article. I'll wait for 2 days and then edit the article to include more ifnromation about Brisbane High Schools, ie. List a few notable ones and then reference the list. Pursey 16:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I have put a link through to the List of schools in Queensland article in the Education section.

I do not think that schools should be designated as 'notable and the rest'. Such references and information could be open to POV comments and lead to bias, arguments, antagonism and dispute.

Also, who has the right to judge which schools should be considered notable - and which schools should not be. It can only be a personal opinion at best. I am in full agreement with Adz's comments above on this subject. Figaro 06:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Request

Can you please remove that horrible picture of a CityTrain at a station? surely there are better ones than that —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.239.83.158 (talk • contribs) .

The image has now been removed, as you requested. Figaro 01:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Why are there such unflattering pictures on our page? There are great Wiki pics like StoryBridgeByNight800.jpg and Queens-Plaza-sculptures.jpg which do not feature. The City Cat image is also outdated and there is not a picture of River Fire which is discussed. Compared to Melbourne's page ours is extremely dissappointing, I have tried to edit it but it just goes back to its boring original state. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.226.40.92

I completely agree with what you said above! The Brisbane page is very disappointing and unfair compared with other cities! If the "Brisbane project" people continue to use ugly and outdated pictures and delete good ones that are already on the Wikipedia site I will contact Wikipedia and tell them of this situation. Stop deleting the good pictures and visit the Melbourne or Sydney page to compare! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soulvisionq1

Reply to Soulvisionq1

It's not very kind to comment on other users' pictures as "ugly and outdated", especially when you have not yet contributed any copyright-free photos yourself to Wikipedia. At least the users whose photos you are denigrating have tried to help by contributing their own photos to Wikipedia, for the benefit of other people (including yourself). And, why do you comment that the photos are "outdated"? If you feel so strongly about the matter, then why don't you use your own camera and take some photos yourself. Figaro 13:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply to 60.226.40.92

With respect to the phot of the Story Bridge at night, there is already a photo of the Story Bridge on the page (the photo of the Story Bridge at night is also featured on the Story Bridge page). And, with respect the Queens Plaza sculptures, the photo is already featured on the Queens Plaza page. Finally, with regard to Riverfire, maybe nobody is able to contribute a photo to Wikipedia. If you would like to contribute to the page, then you might like to register as a user so that you can contribute your own photos (taken with your own camera) to articles. Figaro 13:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Figaro

I did! I took my own like everyone i know who has tried to update it! but guess what Figaro, you deleted them! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.236.164.101

A user who is not registered cannot upload his own photos — or are you a registered user who is not 'logged on'? Perhaps you would be good enough to identify who your are — and also to mention exactly which photos you took and which you claim I deleted. Figaro 13:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I notice that 220.236.164.101 has not been back to answer my queries. I should mention here that I have never deleted any photos from Wikipedia, so perhaps this is the reason why 220.236.164.101 did not answer any of my questions to him/her. Figaro 21:15, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply

Well it was someone else then... that "cow_something" user. Anyway... the embarrassment continues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soulvisionq1 (talk • contribs)

Well you are welcome to take your own photos and upload them where necessary (and signed-in into Wikipedia) instead of sitting and whinging about it. Also in future, can you sign off after making a comment by using the four tides like this : ~~~~ at the end of your messages, as it can be hard to track down whos making the unsigned comment. --Arnzy (talk • contribs) 15:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Soulvisionq1

As I have already commented, I did not delete your images – a quick check of your logs will show what happened to your images, who deleted them, and why the deletions occurred (the records are there to check, if you click onto the names of your deleted images and follow the directions with the 'deletion log' for each of them). I am still waiting for you to show the good manners to apologise to me for your unfair and unjust accusation against me regarding this. Figaro 23:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Update

• I've started the clean up. It still needs work, the article is heavy in all the wrong places. --Peta 09:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
• I've been working on the Brisbane gallery [2] at Wikimedia Commons and am also in the process of re-categorising [3] some of the Brisbane images there, trying to create an appropriate hierarchy of daughter categories. This is in response to earlier requests (and an obvious need) to select the 'best' series of images to go on the Wikipedia pages. Any help would be much appreciated - particularly in moving images across from Wikipedia to the Commons area. Thank! BrisbanePom 11:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Population

Brisbane's population does not some up to 1.9 million people. Exclude City of Caboolture, Redcliffe City, Logan City and Ipswich City, that would leave the population 1.6-1.7million. Maybe the artical should list its Urban population as 1.9 million. Unknown User 04:16, 19 October 2006

Considering the results from the last census haven't been tallied, the population mark is a growth estimate by the ABS. The last census before the most recent one this year, was in 2001. In the last 5 years, Brisbane has featured phenomenal growth, so it will be interesting to see what comes out of the 06' effort when the stats come available in July next year. 59.167.108.234 17:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Brisbane one of most multicultural cities ?

The article states that Brisbane is one of the most multicultural cities in Australia. This is a factoid. The statistics just don't add up to this. Look at the stats: Comparative percentages of those born overseas in Australian major cities (as at 2001):

• Melbourne: 43.5%
• Perth: 31.6%
• Sydney: 31.2%
• Adelaide: 24.6%
• Darwin: 22.0%
• Canberra: 22.0%
• Brisbane: 21.0%
• Hobart: 14.0%

The ABS shows that Brisbane has a relatively low overseas migration rate compared to Sydney and Melbourne, and while Melbourne and Sydney's is growing, Brisbanes has either stayed the same or actually decreased. The reason for this is most likely that migrants are attracted to cities that offer high employment in areas of unskilled labour, in manufacturing and industry, whereas the majority of Brisbane's growth is actually in white collar industries. Even with interstate migration over the last few years, Brisbane still has the second lowest multicultural rate of the capital cities, and there are several provincial cities like Geelong and Newcastle that have higher multicultural proportions. For example, Dandenong, Victoria has a rate of 54% overseas born. --Biatch 01:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

While the statement in the article certainly needs to be sourced, I'm not sure your statistics disprove it. I don't think it is correct to assume that multiculturalism is determined by proportion of overseas-born population; there are cultural differences amongst native Australians, no?--cj | talk 08:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you disagree with the definition of Multiculturalism on Wikipedia and believe it needs changing. I quote: "Multiculturalism is almost always applied to distinct cultures of immigrant groups in developed countries" and "not to the presence of indigenous peoples". Australian born people are much more likely to have embraced Australian culture and less likely to know the customs of or be able to speak the language of their descendants.--Biatch 02:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The statistics quoted do not indicate the % of 'immigrant groups' (as quoted from the multiculturalism article), they indicate the % of population born overseas. Although this may seem to be the same thing, it is not. It does not take into account 'immigrant groups' that have been established here for more than one generation, and hence are not born overseas. Your statistics just show the recent immigration, not overall 'immigrant group' size. but I do think the comment should be reworded, brisbane is a multicultural city, but comparison to other cities is not required. Rimmeraj 02:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

You are talking about the visible minority, which is not a true indication or measure of a multicultural community. Second generation immigrants rarely retain their culture of their descendants. Until recently, Brisbane's population was dominated by the White Australia Policy, hence most immigrants are from Europe and English speaking backgrounds and have been quick adopters of Australian culture. Cities like Melbourne, however, have had multicultural populations for example from China since the Gold Rush 150 years ago which has influenced the diversity much more since. Ultimately everyone in Australia is an immigrant at some point - even indigenous Australians. Most cities in the developed world are to a certain extent. This is not, however, notable. To say so would not be doing justice to truly multicultural cities like Toronto, Melbourne, New York, London and Perth.--Biatch 05:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Biatch, that part of the articel should be removed. Brisbane population is 85% Anglo. Even Perth has a highter non-Anglo population and Perth is Australia's 4th biggest city. I'm glad I now live in melbourne now, honestly brisbane is abit to "Red neck" for my taste. The Italian Australian population seems to be dying in Brisbane, which is sad cus the only migrants that have arrived in Brisbane over the past few years are Africans (not that there's anything wrong with that, But it wasn't until then brisbane ppl actully knew what black was, if ur an ethnic who's live/lived in Brisbane will know what i mean), But multiculturalism in brisbane is not very strong compered to Sydney, Melbourne and just about every other captital city in Australia, Brisbane despratly needs a new wave of migrants. Unknown User 20:32, 19 October 2006

So you have to have lots of immigrants to be multicultural? Australian-born means that you enjoy barbequed steak, rugby league, and Fosters, without exception? I would disagree with that assessment. Lankiveil 01:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC).

Second fastest growing city in the developed world ???

This claim is made in the opening paragraph of the article. Where does this claim hail from ? What periods are we talking about ?? I looked around and couldn't find anything on this. The claim is spurious at best. I did find this article [4] which seems to indicate Las Vegas, Austin and Atlanta in the United States are in the world top 100, but no mention of Brisbane. I could find no mention in reputable articles here [5] or here [6]. According to the Developed country article (redirected from Developed World), Dubai is the fastest growing city on Earth, Brisbane surely does not hold a candle to the growth of Dubai. Is this another factoid ?? If a source can't be found, it should be deleted. --Biatch 03:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

It is the second fastest growing city, just because wiki doesn't have an article on it doesn't mean its not true. There have been articles in actual resources such as the internet and newspaper that actually do say this. maybe people should refer to these —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tristan 753 (talk • contribs) 06:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

What about all the construction?

What is going on at the corner of albert and elizabeth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.51.1 (talk) 08:20, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Introduction needs work

I just read the introduction for this article, and found it to be confusing and to contain information that was not relevant for an introduction. I suggest the following: - remove text about the 'world fair' and 'commonwealth games', they are events that occurred but are not important for an introduction. - the wording 'of the Australian State of Queensland' in the first sentence is badly worded and does not conform to the other city pages (example Sydney). I would reword it as 'of Queensland'. If the reader wants to know more about Qeensland they can use the link to determine that it is an Australian state. - the introduction seems to be too history focused. It does tell you where Brisbane is, how populated, and then the rest is about the history. I would suggest that the world war II text is not essential and that we need a focus on what brisbane is today. A sentence about climate, sporting (and other recreation), government (council or state government), major landmarks would all be valid pieces of information. - I am not suggesting we make the introduction a huge section, just that the current information does not provide a good introduction to Brisbane.

I would like to perform some of the changes, but think I need agreement before I do any changes. Rimmeraj 23:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

See WP:LEAD for guidelines and Canberra for a featured article example. Good city introductions are generally contain name, population, location, brief historical overview, and relative importance.--cj | talk 02:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Can you specify which parts of my suggestion you do not think are worthwhile? based on your link to WP:LEAD and the canberra example I still feel changes are required.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rimmeraj (talk • contribs) 11:42, 25 October 2006.

Most of your last suggestion would be trivial.--cj | talk 02:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Cochi is an example of what I was aiming for. And if my suggestions are trivial, then please suggest some that are not. Anyway, no on else seems to care either way so I will leave it unchanged. Rimmeraj 00:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Culture

"Brisbane has a thriving live music scene, as well as museums and theatres, performing arts and creative arts. It is the birthplace of internationally acclaimed singers, music bands, authors, artists and sculptors"

Can we have some examples? And out of interest are any of them still there? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.86.71.20 (talk • contribs) .

It is a bit on the vague side. I don't personally doubt it with musicians, but I think examples need to be given. Orderinchaos78 ^(t|c) 19:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

And, which examples do you feel should be given on the main Brisbane page — which is already overly long (and which people are trying to reduce the volume of)?

There are special pages which have been created specifically for this purpose (one page being for popular entertainment such as pop, rock, punk and night clubs etc. — and another page for classical culture, such as opera, ballet, sculpture, actors, authors, artists and theatre venues etc.). While people seem to be very eager to list rock and punk music bands and artists on the main page, they are virtually ignoring classical culture. If there is to be mention on the main Brisbane page, again, of various groups and artists etc., then this will make the main Brisbane page more cumbersome, and a bias will once again be heavily loaded in favour of popular entertainment. Also, which examples out of the many would you choose for special favour and consideration by being specially chosen to be given a more prominent position by being mentioned on the main page? There should be no discrimation in mentioning bands and artists etc. (in either popular or classical culture), but this would be the case if certain bands and artists were singled out for this special privilege. Figaro 02:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The new Queensland Cultural Centre just opened, with the Queensland Gallery of Modern Art does anybody have some decent images? It is certainly a topic that needs to be emphasised on both the Brisbane and Brisbane's Classical Culture page.

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