Talk:Butyric acid

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is it butyric acid or butryic acid that is a plant stimulant?

From google, indole-3-butyric acid is a plant hormone. (So is indole acetic acid). Tristanb 06:26, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Can humans make butyrate during diabetic ketoacidosis when they increase the blood levels of free fatty acids?

No, it is solely the byproduct of certain bacteria as far as humans go, based on what we know today. Salvia420 (talk) 19:26, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

According to PubChem, butyric acid is a histamine antagonist. This should be more explicitly stated in the article (toward the end it mentions the effects on histone). Fuzzform 17:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC

A google search into this topic brought up this talk page as the third result. I have gone to great lengths in the past to find the relationship between histones and histamines. Histones are operating on an epigenetic level, they have a very short half life and face a lot of competition (for example from MCTs) when passing the blood brain barrier (which it improves in vitro). Whereas the incorrectly named "histamine antagonists", e.g. inverse agonists of histamine, such as Diphenhydramine, are completely different. I have been over on the Diphenhydramine article to warn of the increased dementia dangers of Diphenhydramine accumulated through cumulative usage (long term, 3months-7years), as well as indicating the correct mechanism of action there (amazing that this is not known in almost April of 2016). But yes, it is not a histamine antagonist. Actually HDAC inhibition hints at doing the exact opposite, it actually seems to powerfully prevent or reverse dementia, whereas anticholinergic substances have been correlated with an increased risk of dementia. If it reaches the brain in a significant manner in every day use, it would actually theoretically reversing any damage the inverse agonists would be doing. This is incredibly promising in Multiple sclerosis since it is actually regulating the Treg cells and has been shown to improve the blood brain barrier models in vitro, the BBB prevents T cells from entering into it and bacteria or viruses may compromise the BBB which allow them to get into it. Salvia420 (talk) 19:15, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

References

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 01:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Based on the content of the article, I don't think Food and drink tagging is necessary so I have removed it. ChemNerd (talk) 14:51, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

acidity

i didnt see the acidity of it anywhere on the page, shouldnt that be added? 69.115.204.217 (talk) 14:21, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm wondering why it says 'Butyric acid is a weak acid' but if you click on the chemical-info link (external link) it says that it is a 'medium strong acid'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.114.200 (talk) 06:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

as sevral articles about the conflicts in the souther ocean between sea shepherd and the icr. link to this i think it should be stated that its a fairly weak acidc, perhaps with comparissons. it hasnt been added yet and should be, as to dispell rumors of "acid burns" to the japanenes, as its less acidic than oragne juice and lemons. 166.216.130.74 (talk) 04:34, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

They weren't rumours. Peter Bethune was criminally convicted for injuring members of the whaling crew. As far as I know, in the trial, there wasn't even any question as to whether the men were really hurt or not; only as to whether Bethune intended to hurt them. — TheHerbalGerbil^(TALK|STALK), 14:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Corrosive qualities

The popular US TV show Whale Wars is back on the air, and there's some controversy over whether butyric acid can be harmful or corrosive when used by activists/protestors/what-have-you. Can someone speak to the corrosiveness (or non-corrosiveness, as the case may be) of butyric acid? I suspect we're going to get a few hits on this page from folks looking for an answer to that.TN | ! 17:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

i dont know about corrosieness, but for acidity, i remeber a chart shomewhere that compared it to sevral other items in terms of acidty. it's less acidic than lemons, oranges, beer, and a couple other things. ill try to find the chart. 69.115.204.217 (talk) 23:48, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

found it. it states the pH of butyric acid as 4.8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.115.204.217 (talk) 00:12, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Awesome. So I guess we could add a sentence like, "Like any acid, butyric acid can be corrosive in high concentrations." I'll think about how best to make this germane to the rest of the article. TN | ! 00:34, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

pH is meaningless since it changes with concentration and temperature. pKa is a more useful measure of acidity. If you look at an MSDS, you will note that many will give it the class {{hazchem C}}, making it corrosive substance. "Corrosive" in this context refers to the ability to damage material and flesh. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 03:02, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Questionable reference neutrality

I question the neutrality of the statement "The substance has also been used as a noxious, nausea-inducing repellent by anti-whaling protesters such as the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, against law-breaking Japanese whaling crews who brutally murder whales,[5]"

referencing citation #5:

^ Japanese Whalers Injured by Acid-Firing Activists, newser.com, February 10, 2010

There is nothing in the above-referenced citation about any laws being broken or the so-called "brutal murdering" of whales. This, as far as I can tell from this single citation/reference, pure opinion and should be taken out of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sparkinark (talk • contribs) 00:50, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I question the neutrality of this reference: National Abortion Federation, HISTORY OF VIOLENCE Butyric Acid Attacks. The page that this reference links to does not cite any further sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.82.217.165 (talk) 06:23, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem with your questioning of the NAF as a source is that the organizations who routinely used butyric acid to vandalize women's clinics either don't produce fact-based information (i.e. Operation Rescue, whose online and published documents have been found to contain falsehoods and misleading information), or the Army of God, whose few known publications have been found buried in the backyards of felons fleeing from their attempts to murder doctors and clinic workers (as well as lacing their Web site with falsehoods and misleading information). The NAF source is quite accurate and non-partisan in approach, and there are few sources from anti-abortion organizations that are reliable. Black Max (talk) 04:11, 15 November 2010 (UTC)Black Max

Butyric acid variants

Due to the significance of this compound, its conjugate base, and salts in research and therapeutic benefits for a large range of diseses (obesity, diabetes, inflammatory - particularly gastrointestinal, microbial infections - particularly helicobacter pylori, and a stupidly large range of neuroepigenetic psychiatric/age-related disorders like addiction, depression, ADHD, OCD, autism, dementia/alzheimers, parkinson's, among many others), I intend to merge sodium butyrate and butyrate into this article and redirect them here. This is to avoid redundancy and ensure that readers who are unfamiliar with other terms for variations of this compound end up at one unified article on the topic when searching any of the terms.

Butyrate could just as well be covered in the lead while acknowledging that its salts are commonly used in research and sold over-the counter, while the acid itself is a short chain fatty acid metabolite of the human microbiome. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 01:32, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

This would be good to get all the information in one place because chemical is going to be a game changer. I have argued directly with highly rated authors who state there is no need for fiber, and they stood firm in spite of the science. There is a real lack of knowledge of the importance of fiber at even the highest level in many dietary scholars. It is however important to point out some significant differences between sodium butyrate and butyric acid, since butyric acid is now thought of as a fuel for colon cells and since it has a quite short half life. The sodium butyrate is administered in (much) higher than normal amounts for example in order to achieve some of its effects. There is a need to distinguish between what is achievable when it is used as a drug, compared to what it can do when used as a drug. I would think that it would need a sodium butyrate section in order to cover the sort of research that is emerging, unless that research is purpose built to be reflective of dietary based production. But I think I could rapidly put together a section on sodium butyrate with the wealth of information I have on evernote, etc. Lastly I think that it would be good to advise readers that it is commonly known as "butyrate" in scholarly research, since a Google search on "scholarly articles on butyric acid" commonly brings up gamma-Aminobutyric acid, and that would possibly prevent people from exploring this powerful and very necessary compound (which popular and even soluble dietary fiber supplements such as psyllium seed husks produce 0 of!). I think that its very likely that this page is going to explode in popularity in order to address a myriad of health conditions, therefore it is prudent to foresee the necessity of organization (butyrate as a drug, food, chemical, epigenetic medicine, etc) and assist them in understanding the terminology so they may add to the knowledge pool. Salvia420 (talk) 19:49, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Removing move tags; cleanup. 96.237.16.234 (talk) 00:52, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Human-specific enzymes

Butanoyl-CoA / Butyryl-CoA

• http://www.brenda-enzymes.org/enzyme.php?ecno=1.3.8.7&Suchword=&organism%5B%5D=Homo+sapiens&show_tm=0 - Medium-chain acyl-coenzyme A dehydrogenase
• http://www.brenda-enzymes.org/enzyme.php?ecno=1.14.11.18&Suchword=&organism%5B%5D=Homo+sapiens&show_tm=0 - phytanoyl-CoA dioxygenase
• http://www.brenda-enzymes.org/enzyme.php?ecno=1.3.8.1&Suchword=&organism%5B%5D=Homo+sapiens&show_tm=0 - butyryl-CoA dehydrogenase
• http://www.brenda-enzymes.org/enzyme.php?ecno=6.4.1.3&Suchword=&organism%5B%5D=Homo+sapiens&show_tm=0 - propionyl-CoA carboxylase

Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 08:46, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm confused or did I misread something

"Ingestion of the acid may result in abdominal pain, shock, and collapse. Physical exposure to the acid may result in pain, blistering and skin burns, while exposure to the eyes may result in pain, severe deep burns and loss of vision."

So nasty stuff, right?

"Butyric acid is found in milk, especially goat, sheep and buffalo milk, butter, parmesan cheese..."

88.104.8.179 (talk) 14:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Full Stop

I believe "C6H12O6 → C4H8O2 + 2 CO2 + 2 H2" to be an equation not a sentence so it doesn't need a full stop. Sorry. I just noticed as I was reading. It LOOKED wrong! :) There may be a formal protocol I'm not aware of, but it seems to me that,unattached to a sentence [ie between paragraphs] it has the nature of an illustration, so it doesn't need to be punctuated with a full stop.psic88 03:39, 21 January 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Psic88 (talk • contribs)

 Fixed – thanks for pointing that out. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:42, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

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Production

According to the Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry on Carboxylic acids. n-butyric acid is commercially produced by carbonylation of propylene to n-butyric aldehyde, followed by oxidation with oxygen to n-butyric acid. Biotech-based processes are still not significant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghjgghj (talk • contribs) 20:46, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Reverts

Not sure why you're reverting a source that simply says that a compound is a transporter substrate on the grounds that it is a medical claim? That makes no sense.

The IUPHAR database confirms its pharmacology in humans - see the cited ref.

Please preserve MOS:PHARM.

I don't see the issue with quoting. If you want to get into an edit war over it, then whatever. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:39, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Also, lumping the word "in vitro" onto everything to make it seem less plausible is a bit retarded when the literature supporting it is in vivo. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:42, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Your edits are misleading by overstating the evidence, which in most cases, is from in vitro work and preliminary in vivo studies far from conclusive clinical research. You seem to write/edit for the advanced scientific user, contrary to WP:NOTJOURNAL, #7, which encourages more general content. I'm trimming or eliminating the quotes because they are redundant to the ref itself which can be accessed without belaboring the reference section, and because they impress as an attempt to persuade attention to what you alone feel is important. --Zefr (talk) 18:09, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Re-above for my last revert. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 04:22, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

You should understand that there is almost no point in consuming this compound as a dietary supplement. Its pharmacokinetic profile is such that obtaining any tissue-specific effect would require direct injection of sodium butyrate or tributyrin into that tissue to obtain an effect due to its extremely rapid uptake/absorption and metabolism following oral administration; the vast majority of dietary butyrate is sent straight to the liver wherein it's metabolized. Hence, clinical trials that have utilized this compound (or rather, tributyrin) have used massive doses, typically exceeding 30 grams per day. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 04:29, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

No point raised in your comment. If you dispute my version, discuss it here per WP:BRD. Otherwise, please let other editors have input to the status of the article. --Zefr (talk) 16:17, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Sure. Feel free to discuss. I’m listening. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 19:02, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Not sure why you’re ignoring me. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 19:36, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was merge. No comments or objections for 1 month. Mdewman6 (talk) 19:40, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

---

It is proposed that Butyrate be merged to Butyric acid. There is an ongoing discussion at the WikiProject Chemicals page where there is general consensus that articles for carboxylate anions should be merged into the articles for their parent acids in most cases. Currently there is biochemical information divided between the two pages that should be merged together in one article. An alternative would be to move the biochemistry aspects to the butyrate article, as butyrate is generally the biochemically relevant species. Mdewman6 (talk) 19:33, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

This merger was completed, after a month in which no-one had commented adversely. Hence this article has expanded. Editors are welcome to review its current state and make further improvements. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:40, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why no mention of butyric acid by vandals?

Am I missing something, or does the article omit to mention that butyric acid has been used by vandals to shut down workplaces and offices? It is very smelly and difficult to remove. Militant anti-abortion vandals used to shut down abortion clinics by breaking and entering and releasing it, in the 1980s and early 1990s. (Some even referred to it by the nickname "liquid rescue", in their newsletters.) Other militant protest-groups also used it from time to time. This seems to me a very notable fact about its history, which ought to be mentioned in the article. HandsomeMrToad (talk) 08:27, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

HandsomeMrToad This would need a reliable, preferebly secondary, source to cite. A quick web search led me to this paper. A more useful academic paper is doi:10.1257/app.3.1.189 but you may be able to find something better. By all means go ahead and add something appropriate, bearing in mind WP:NPOV. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:46, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

The 'Uses' section already contains a cited mention of its use as a weapon by terrorists. It could be generalized to say the citation isn't the only example, but it definitely doesn't need to be a list. Desktopview (talk) 10:47, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Chocolate

I was here to find a source to show about the pop culture factoid about Hershey's chocolate having a distinct flavor due to the presence of this chemical. I was surprised to see no mention of it. There is a common misconception/hoax that the chemical is added directly which Hershey's refutes explicitly; still, it is part of the iconic taste and a line or two about this could both expand on the uses of the chemical, and serve to reduce that misinformation. I don't have a good source to use though. Desktopview (talk) 10:41, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Clearly, if Hershey refute that factoid, you are going to need a very reliable source to say that it is indeed part of the flavor components. That's not impossible, since butyric acid at low concentrations is widely used (see this ref from the article) but that doesn't mean it characterises that particular chocolate. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:16, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

@Desktopview It took me only a few moments to notice that our article on Hershey bar mentions butyric acid, quoting a BBC article. That's reliable but not a scientific study and is based on speculation. A similar simple statement could be added to this article based on that reference. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:41, 11 March 2023 (UTC)