Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II (2022 video game)

Redundancy in title

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II currently redirects to Call of Duty, and technically speaking it isn't the same name as Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. I don't believe the (2022 video game) part is needed, and we can just move the contents of this page to the aforementioned redirect page. The boss 1904 (talk) 07:58, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, both should have hatnotes or neither should. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 15:26, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 17 May 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 12:56, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

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Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II (2022 video game) → Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II – the page title is intended to differentiate from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2; however it is unnecessary as the difference in II vs. 2 should suffice The boss 1904 (talk) 08:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 17:55, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

• Not obviously uncontroversial; should be discussed to determine consensus. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:38, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
• Opposed As too soon to make a COMMON name call here. Officially, Call of Duty: Black Ops 4 is "Call of Duty: Black Ops IIII" in all marketing. But we recognize that no one actually uses the roman numerals (marketing stunt aside) and just calls it 4. There's no reason to rush to move this, no one is confused as is, and while marketing may use "II" here, that definitely is not suitable NATDIS in my view. Does it help our readers to type "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare" into the search bar and see "2" and "II" as the options? It's a dice roll at best whether they get where they intended. -- ferret (talk) 18:29, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Oppose. There is close to zero difference between II and 2 and expecting users to know which one is which is bad design. Gonnym (talk) 22:16, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per Gonnym. II and 2 are definitely interchangeable and not enough differences. Neocorelight (Talk) 23:33, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Oppose, while the proper title is Modern Warfare II, someone searching for information (who is unaware of the difference) will be majorly confused, this title also is consistent with Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019 video game)'s title, (despite that game missing the 4 of the original game's name) JeremyDoesSS (talk) 00:18, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per JeremyDoesSS. Without the "2022 video game" in the title, people might confuse it with the original 2009 game. MikeTimesONE 10:58, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose Numbers and Roman numerals in titles are often interchangeable, they shouldn't apply for WP:SMALLDETAILS in my opinion. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:13, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose In English Roman numerals are interchangeable to numbers and could be confusing Qwv (talk) 23:08, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. II and 2 are completely interchangebale as evidence by World War 2/World War II or Apple 2/Apple II. Also, as a "reboot" the title here was chosen to be almost the same as the previous. Pikavoom ^Talk 06:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

removing it for no reason despite having official sources?

there is absolutely no reason to remove nay info if it has an official source and several people on the dev team have spoke publicly bout it. "simply sourcing the content" is the proper thing to do. Td^she/her 19:11, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

@Wikibenboy94 Td^she/her 19:12, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

also considering there are probably hundreds of hours of content on Twitch YouTube and other social media sites should be more then enough proof. this is not a matter of opinion it is set in stone fact as of this moment and until proven otherwise it shall stay that way. Td^she/her 19:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

@Thedefender35: Per the guidelines on verifiability, material "must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports[2] the material." Most of the sources linked don't explicitly back up what is written, and to a lesser extent, aren't secondary when they could be (other articles for recent Call of Duty games have a number of reliable pre-release secondary sources in their Gameplay sections, which shows it should be possible for this game too). Also, just pointing to external facts that aren't completely obvious is almost always original research (and additionally in your case, WP:USERG). Wikibenboy94 (talk) 23:08, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

yes i understand but the issue here isn't a matter of opinion it it a state of fact. they have added reload checkpoints and removed slide cancels, they have removed the grindy style of weapon leveling. This should not even have to be discussed. based off of past cod games it has been seen that Activision doesn't make detailed additions on their game releases. If it is not enough for verified statements from the devs then this article is a failure.@Wikibenboy94 Td^she/her 23:30, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ponyo can you please tell me whether I am in violation of Wikipedia:USERG? Td^she/her 23:32, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Are you watching videos that never explicitly state things like "reload checkpoints" and "slide cancels"? If you interpreting what you see in the video, then comparing that to a past game, that is WP:OR/SYNTH. You need a source that explicitly denotes the changes. -- ferret (talk) 23:41, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

no i am stating it via a site and from quotes via the devs saying that. Td^she/her 23:42, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

via one of the articles "CharlieINTEL posted a clip on Twitter explaining why reload canceling no longer works in Modern Warfare 2.“The saved state for a magazine is when it is removed, meaning you cannot cancel the reload after that point. It will force you to finish it regardless.” Td^she/her 23:45, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Slide cancelling is currently sourced to Sportskeeda and Forbes, both unreliable sources. -- ferret (talk) 23:46, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

ok ill change those but considering that one of the cites i have sourced directly quotes a dev it shoud not be a violation of Wikipedia:USERG Td^she/her 23:47, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning WP:USERG. The policies in play here are WP:OR and WP:RS. -- ferret (talk) 23:52, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

the user @Wikibenboy94 said i was in violation for some reason Td^she/her 23:52, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

this was from Activision on the situation related to movement changes. "You can either Slide or Dive to the floor, depending on your running speed. As before, a Slide occurs when you go from a Sprint into a Crouch. The new Dive occurs when you go from a Tactical Sprint into a Crouch. Think of the Slide as more combat focused as you land with your gun up, while the Dive doesn’t move you as far along horizontally but allows you to quickly do a tactical drop, enabling a window dive from a building or a swift drop into cover to avoid enemy fire." Td^she/her 23:56, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

@Thedefender35: @Ferret: Perhaps WP:USERG wasn't the right guideline to bring up, although it would be if gameplay videos from players were ever planned to be sourced. Regardless of the discussions about the gameplay (checkpoints, sliding etc.), we can't dispute that the material put in by Mattrices did not have sources that verified this information. Perhaps it was bold of me to remove the paragraphs rather than find any sources, however, a slight problem we have is that those outlets that discuss a new COD's multiplayer typically focus on the changes compared to its predecessors. Likewise, and while it may not be exactly informative to newcomers, articles on recent COD games only really highlight features that are new or changed; any mention of existing features, modes etc. in sources are usually fleeting. I feel that removal of the paragraphs is therefore warranted for the time being. Other than that, as I mentioned the wording needed a bit of tidying up, and some of the additions to the Gunsmith paragraph (that weren't by Mattrices) were WP:UNDUE. I've also since moved/removed the material added to the lead by Mattrices I didn't see until after my initial edit. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 12:46, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ferret@Wikibenboy94 Ok I see where the confusion was maybe we could reference older articles that include older games that have the same game modes as it seems obvious that based off the past that Activision is not going to create a detailed list of changes? Td^she/her 16:36, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Sources that don't refer to Modern Warfare II in any capacity are not acceptable and a violation of WP:OR, but as I say (and upon further researh earlier) there are some articles which briefly mention returning modes for the game, so it is feasible. On the other hand, if every major feature, mode etc. in the game is not able to be reliably sourced then there's little choice but to just focus primarily on what has been changed. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 20:06, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

what i meant was older game articles talking about code and the likes of that in reference to the new call of duty. Td^she/her 20:11, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

@Wikibenboy94 you removed content that had official statements via devs and yet again we have not reached a consensus about what to do. Td^she/her 20:18, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Which source with developer statements are you referring to, because as far as I can tell there aren't any in the article that mention anything I removed from Gameplay? Wikibenboy94 (talk) 20:45, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Thedefender35: Wikibenboy94 (talk) 09:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

via one of the articles "CharlieINTEL posted a clip on Twitter explaining why reload canceling no longer works in Modern Warfare 2.“The saved state for a magazine is when it is removed, meaning you cannot cancel the reload after that point. It will force you to finish it regardless.” Td^she/her 16:33, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Per my edit I did not remove that source, only the written mention of the reload-cancelling as it's WP:UNDUE and no other reliable sources are talking about it (in hindsight, I should have just removed the source). Regardless of all that, as I've stated, my issue is with the first four paragraphs in Gameplay that cite official or publication website(s) which don't discuss any of the game's details mentioned in said paragraphs. Based on what I've also said previously, if you have no objection to having these paragraphs removed, then please confirm. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 22:40, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

@Thedefender35: Wikibenboy94 (talk) 09:38, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

@Wikibenboy94 go ahead Td^she/her 19:55, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I will still remove mention of reload-cancelling based on the aforementioned reasons and the fact that calling it "gameplay" is a stretch when it's essentially nothing more than an exploit. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 15:23, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Also, just because something is proven to be true, does not mean it must be included in the article (WP:NOTDATABASE). Wikibenboy94 (talk) 15:35, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

@Wikibenboy94 Yes but considering it is the first game to have such reload check point I think it fits into an area of interest. Td^she/her 16:26, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I have just found other reliable sources mentioning it, so at least we're not short on verification if it's ever decided to be added. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 17:55, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

@Wikibenboy94 Got it let me know if there are any other issues. Glad we could sort this out with out warring. Td^she/her 17:56, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Reception Section is clearly fake

Change reception section. There is absolutely nothing true about what is written in the Reception section. It was clearly written by a troll. 2600:8801:3890:1900:550F:4439:5541:6EF4 (talk) 17:13, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:21, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish I've removed the reception section. The source given supported none of what was claimed. -- ferret (talk) 18:23, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Ferret, thanks for that. I shouldn't have assumed the source has the information based on the url. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:30, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Move

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II (2022 video game) → Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II – the page title is intended to differentiate from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2; however it is unnecessary as the difference in II vs. 2 should suffice 2A02:C7E:3AA7:8D00:5013:9AE2:3E0F:CBC4 (talk) 23:16, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

This was literally discussed and opposed just above at #Requested move 17 May 2022. -- ferret (talk) 23:25, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

MWIII Article?

Now that MWIII has been officially put on sale, I think it should be given its own article. PencilSticks0823 (talk) 19:10, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

@PencilSticks0823 There's already a submitted draft article that's been in the works for a while now. Not sure why it hasn't been approved yet. Guessing it'll be in existence by the end of the week though. NegativeMP1 (talk) 19:32, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the info. PencilSticks0823 (talk) 19:39, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

It was approved. Article now exists. NegativeMP1 05:35, 18 August 2023 (UTC)