Talk:Canelo Álvarez

Win record

Who checked the win record? How could Alvarez have beaten Mayweather one day before the fight happens? Today is 09/ 13/2013. record post win on 09/14/2013. Needs proofreading. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.117.82.2 (talk) 03:38, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

 Done, vandalism reverted. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 03:42, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Subjective Language

So... We see phrases like "the only downside", "crushing third round knockout", "a crushing blow that knocked Baldomir out cold", and "It was a competitive fight despite the wide margins on the official scorecards". There are many more and it wouldn't make sense for me to list them all here. We need to be more careful about using such subjective and seemingly invested language as his Wiki page currently reads like a publicity piece. --Scardinoz (talk) 23:28, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 4 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 23:22, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

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Saúl Álvarez → Canelo Álvarez – Per WP:COMMONNAME. He is usually referred to as Canelo by sports and news outlets, both English- and Spanish-language. These include ESPN [1] [2] [3] [4], La Opinión [5], [6], [7], Bleacher Report [8], [9], [10], Sky News [11], and ESPN Deportes [12], [13], [14]. He even uses it on Twitter as both his username, @Canelo, and his name [15]. Amccann421 (talk) 03:51, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Highly dispute any move. The WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, TBRB and BoxRec all refer to him as Saul Alvarez, not Canelo. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:08, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

More English media which use Saul Alvarez: BBC, The Telegraph, Daily Mail, The Independent. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:11, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I've done a U-turn. I now support moving this article to Canelo Álvarez, on the basis of WP:COMMONNAME and that the article for Buster Douglas is named as such. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 15:12, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified

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Canelo vs. Smith / result type

This comes up every few weeks, so for anyone to wants to hash it out, let it be done here. There are an abundance of sources which state the result as a TKO, not a KO:

• 1 – "A stadium-record boxing crowd of 51,240 watched Alvarez scored a ninth-round, technical knockout over Smith"
• 2 – "Alvarez scores ninth-round TKO with massive body shot"
• 3 – "... to earn the ninth-round technical knockout stoppage"
• 4 – "after defeating Liam Smith by ninth-round TKO"
• 5 – "Canelo Alvarez Impressively Stops Liam Smith by TKO"
• 6 – "Alvarez scored a smashing 9th round TKO over Britain's Liam Smith"
• 7 – "Canelo Alavarez scores ninth round TKO win over Liam Smith"
• 8 – "Canelo Alvarez in control, TKO's Smith in 9th round"
• 9 – "... as he secured victory by technical knockout"

BoxRec is just flat-out wrong here; they call this a KO but Froch–Groves II a TKO? Come on.. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:14, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

It does say so here, clear explanations.

KO = Knockout. A knockout occurs when the opponent is knocked to the ground by a blow, and cannot get to his/her feet within the standard 10-second countdown.

TKO = Technical Knockout. A technical knockout occurs when the referee determines that one of the fighters cannot continue the fight, even if that particular fighter desires to continue. Reasons the referee might determine this can include: a lack of offensive striking; obvious visual impairment; obvious and constant lack of balance (wobbly on the feet); or constant and profuse bleeding.

Wouldn't that make Froch-Groves a TKO? Mahussain06 (talk) 13:21, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Froch–Groves II, along with Márquez–Pacquiao IV and Álvarez–Khan, appear to be special cases. In all three, the ref failed to begin a count and waved it off immediately—as if to signify that they were "knocked out into next Tuesday", and would never make a count of ten. Are we going to call Márquez–Pacquiao IV a TKO based on the above? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

You are right. That makes sense to me. Mahussain06 (talk) 22:36, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

The count was started then waived in the Smith fight. 80.235.147.186 (talk) 22:35, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Canelo VS. Gennady Golovkin

The fight has been set Triple G defends middleweight title September 16 Mexican independence day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.202.19.158 (talk) 04:46, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

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WBO light heavyweight title

Add his WBO light heavyweight title in the succession box. Eric Ercilla (talk) 14:23, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done – ².O.^Boxing 15:16, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

WBA Regular title super middleweight

Since I got a conflict with regatds to WBA Regular titles as legitimate titles when WBA Super is occupied. How do we go with this?

Sources list's Canelo's win over Kovalev as him being a 4 Division Champ since he won the WBA Regular super middleweight title against Fielding, Callum Smith at that time had the Super title. Some sources states Callum Smith's win made him a 4 division champ. Sanctioning bodies doesn't recognize Regular title or list's them in their rankings on their website not unless Super is vacant. The IBF doesn't even recognize "unification" matches with their belt citing the "Regular" title as a secondary belt.

Should we abide on what the news cite or with the sanctioning bodies?

Sources

Kovalev's win (counting the Regular title):

• Canelo Alvarez stops Sergey Kovalev, becomes 4-division champion
• Now A Four-Division Champion, Where Does Canelo Alvarez Stand In The Pound-For-Pound Picture?
• Canelo Alvarez knocks out Sergey Kovalev in 11th round to win belt in fourth division

Smith's win (Super):

• Canelo Talks Future Fights, Reacts To Becoming Four-Division World Champion
• Canelo Alvarez vs. Callum Smith fight results, highlights: Alvarez claims two 168-pound titles with decision
• Canelo Alvarez-Callum Smith: Mexican becomes four-weight world champion with dominant points win

IBF not recognizing the Regular title:

• IBF Refused To Recognize Xu Can as WBA Champion

IBF and WBO not listing Canelo as a WBA Champ before his win against Smith:

This is fortunately only a minor sticking point, in that we have different sources of equal validity giving a different a date for the same achievement. Not a huge deal. The policies of WP:WEIGHT and WP:BALANCE are the ones we need to follow, namely:

[...] when reputable sources contradict one another and are relatively equal in prominence, describe both points of view and work for balance. This involves describing the opposing views clearly, drawing on secondary or tertiary sources that describe the disagreement from a disinterested viewpoint.

All that needs to be done is to rewrite the lead section by removing all mentions of the other Mexicans who've achieved four-weight status. There's no disputing Álvarez is a four-weight champion now, so someone should simply make a write-up in the prose (specifically the Callum section) and explain how there are differing opinions from several major media outlets on whether he achieved four-weight status after Kovalev or Callum. Get to it. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 14:56, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Okay, that'll do. BlizzyBlizz (talk) 15:06, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Question about timeline of fights and championship belt ownership

What does the numbers after the belt mean? Because it's confusing.

Example: WBC69, WBA72, Ring76, WBO79

I think we should remove it because it's really out of place. BlizzyBlizz (talk) 02:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Where do you see these numbers?- Jahalive (talk) 08:35, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

@Blizzythesnowman: I've gone ahead and removed it. I've never seen anything of the sought on a boxing article. Seems completely unnecessary. – ².O.^Boxing 09:08, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I think those numbers were the weight limit in kg. I found that chart interesting for how it showed his titles. It would need a lot of changes before it would be good enough to put back, but what do you guys think of the possibility?--Jahalive (talk) 17:09, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I'd rather not see it re-added. I think such charts look like ass for music/band-related articles, and this one looked even worse and made less sense in the context of boxing. If someone wants to compile stats for his titles, they can simply look at his fight record. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:24, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2022

5’9 is the correct height, not 5’7.5 24.112.125.51 (talk) 05:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Terasail^[✉️] 05:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 May 2022

I propose that the statement that he is the first undisputed super middleweight champion in history be removed. There were two prior one belt champions when one belt was all there was in the division. They were both undisputed. I propose the statement if you modified to State he is the first undisputed middleweight champion in the four-belt ERA. Not the first undisputed super middleweight champion in the history of the division which is incorrect. 2604:CA00:1EA:B8B8:0:0:E60:7466 (talk) 15:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: the term "undisputed champion" was popularised in the multi-belt era. Those who held one belt were just plain ol' world champions. – ².O.^Boxing 16:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect statement he is not first undisputed super middleweight champion.

Canelo's article needs to be edited. He is not and never has been the first undisputed super middleweight champion. He is in fact the third. See wiki article on undisputed champions. Murray sutherland, and park Chong Pal preceded him. 2604:CA00:1EA:B8B8:0:0:E60:7466 (talk) 15:40, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

I consulted List of undisputed world boxing champions#Super middleweight and it says the same. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 16:03, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Even if we use Squared circle's reason above (which I don't think there is consensus for) Park Chong-pal held the only two super middleweight titles at the time so should be considered undisputed. Could we write "Álvarez is the first boxer to become undisputed champion at super middleweight by unifying four titles ..."?--Jahalive (talk) 06:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

It's not my reasoning, it's just the definition of an undisputed champion. As for Chong-pal, his article says that he vacated the IBF to fight for the WBA, so he wasn't even unified, nevermind undisputed. – ².O.^Boxing 07:55, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

You mean: "the undisputed champion of a weight class is the boxer who holds world titles from all of the major sanctioning organisations simultaneously."?--Jahalive (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Indeed. The article goes on to explain that the term was popularised and defined post-1960, having rarely been used prior. If there's no other boxer that has simultaneously held all the titles then I don't see a reason to change anything. Reliable sources label him as the first, and rightly so. – ².O.^Boxing 23:05, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

If there is only one organisation sanctioning titles in a weight class isn't that "all of the major sanctioning organisations"?--Jahalive (talk) 16:51, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Fight

the fight should be posted as soon as confirmation is made. I just found out about the discussion page where they label the fight after it happens. It makes no sense to do that because it's a upcoming event. The the results can be posted after. 47.198.114.252 (talk) 09:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Sure it can be added when "confirmed"—to the body of the article, where it belongs. Record tables are for events that have taken place, because that's what a record is; it's not a schedule table. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2024

“Light welterweight” needs to be added to “weight(s).” Saul Alvarez made his professional debut at 139lbs. Source: https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/348759 47.155.255.146 (talk) 14:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

 Already done Appears to have been added. re-open if further edits needed. Geardona (talk to me?) 00:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

This edit request was made erroneously, and has been attempted as an addition for many years. Álvarez did not compete notably nor win any titles at light welterweight—see MOS:BOXING/INFOBOX for usage. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:12, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Alvarez did compete at 139lbs professionally. This is a fact. Whether he won any titles or had notable wins is irrelevant. What’s with the subjective criteria? Jg vza (talk) 01:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Some videos that serve as evidence of his undocumented pro fights—not sure how these could be incorporated however

Here's a fight between him and a guy named "Goku Medina" at Auditorio Manuel Bonilla Valle, Manzanillo (28 October 2006):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSx-Z7hKmOk

This Facebook upload has the date:

https://www.facebook.com/GoldenSportmx/videos/28-de-octubre-del-2006-manzanillo-colcanelo-alvarez-vs-goku-medinaauditorio-manu/1012236488962798/?locale=hi_IN

Here's a fight on December 15, 2006 at Arena Jalisco in Guadalajara against one named "Ramón Pérez":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb_BLyotZZI

However, this video showing an identical fight has the opponent named as "Raúl Flores":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOKR6yEUIvc&t=186s

As I said in the header, I'm not sure how these videos could be incorporated into the actual Wikipedia article, but I think it's worth listing them here in the talk page in case they might prove to be useful in the future. AnyGuy (talk) 16:56, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It would be hard to incorporate any of it without reliable coverage outside of YouTube. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:53, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2024

in the charlo fight section, capitalize the "C" in charlo, "uninspiring charlo" 2001:56A:7600:8F00:F05A:CAF:C249:694B (talk) 01:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done – Capitalised. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)