Talk:Canton Island

Untitled

In 1941 actor and playwright Sir Noel Coward was trapped on the Island for sixteen days and apprently loved every second of it. He was on route to the west coast when a monsoons struck. He said from the air the Island looked like a Cartier bracelet. Two years latter he wrote a book about the Island and the couple that ran the radio station the book is called Mr and Mrs Fleming. The Island is now deserted the hotel and radio station plus a flying clipper are in mothballs waiting for us all to rediscover them anyone interested? regards timhughes@bigpond.com LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU.

A small stroke that is "folded"

I have removed the following from the article as it doesn't make sense to me at all. The <small> tags were in the article as well. If someone can make sense of it please reword it and add it back in if it deserves it.

(it is a small stroke that is "folded", if it was totally right, you have to ride 33 km and you have seen the whole island)

Thryduulf 10:20, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Village - Kanton or "Pyramid Point" or "Tebaronga Village"?

What's the name of the village where the 41 people (census of 2005) live in, and where is it located? The census list of villages only lists "Kanton", perhaps since there is only one village on the island. Some sources talk about "Pyramid Point" at the southeast corner of the atoll (the German wikipedia article [1]), and there is a DX postcard on page [2] that talks about "Tebaronga Village". Are those different names of the same village, or are they historic names of different villages?Ratzer 18:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

24.6.112.137 01:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Tebaronga is the name of the current village. Pyramid Point also has some buildings and makeshift houses with full time inhabitants, but some of which people only use as 'holiday houses', or places to hang out when they come to Pyramid Point to fish or to enjoy the cooler breeze. I was there last year. DarrelSTrueman (talk) 12:23, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting. Pyramid Point is also the name of the southernmost point of the atoll, in the southeast. The only building that can be made out on the very detailed satellite images is a tower, presumably a lighthouse, but no other building. North of the lagoon entrance at Spam Island, presumably the location of Tebaronga village, several buildings can be seen, and more in the north, at the western end of the airport. But nothing at "Pyramid Point". Mysterious.--Ratzer (talk) 08:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Island Used by NASA after 1965

I'm doing some research on a postcard I found in my parents' collection. On July 21 1975, a friend of the family sent a postcard from Kanton Island. He was there as an ham radio operator, working at the NASA tracking station from where they tracked the Apollo-Soyuz craft. The postcard is postmarked the mentioned date with the Kanton Island seal, and includes two U.S. canceled stamps commemorating the Apollo-Soyuz mission. So clearly the island was being used by NASA/U.S. after 1965, and American presence there was well after 1968. The postmark is also labeled "USPO", which should prove the U.S. post office was also there through 1975. Groink 23:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure your friend was most likely a civilian contractor to the USAF. Then it was Canton. Kanton came later on when it became part of Kiribati or what ever.

I was on Canton twice, two years running for about six weeks at a time in 1973 and 1974. It could have been 72 and 73. So you are correct as it was actually occupied by the US for quite a while after the time the article mentions.

I was in the USAF detached to the DMA (Defense Mapping Agency) then. I was there to locate the island using satellite geodesy which was a rather new technology in those days. I suppose you could say it was the predecessor of today's GPS. I situated my trig station down were the old Mercury towers once were. I can't see them on Google Earth now so I guess they are long gone. When I was there the towers were very corroded but still standing.

The island was used then by the US Air Force, SAMSO (Space and Missile Systems Organization) as one of the tracking stations that was then part of the SAMSO Western Missile Test Range. They occasionally shot missiles out of Vandenberg AFB down range in order to test the accuracy of the guidance systems etc. In addition to the radar on Canton, they also had a bore sight antenna and tower on Enderbury.

The Air Force had a charter fight out of Hickam AFB HI to American Samoa once a week with a stop going and coming at Canton. As I recall, in order to leave the air field terminal shelter or otherwise gain entry to the island you had to posses at least a secret clearance.

Most of the personnel were civilian contractors. I have forgotten which company ran the contract but I think it could have been Global something or other. Cooks, janitorial workers etc. were mostly Samoans that the contractor also supplied via a subcontractor. The site commander was a USAF Lt. Colonel and there were some regular USAF weather and a few administrative personnel there too. One oddly enough from my rather small home town in SC. Talk about a small world.

One of the rules there that was very strictly enforced was that there was to be no fighting what so ever. If you got yourself involved in a fight, both participants were shipped off the island on the next available flight and your contract was immediately terminated. It did not matter who began the altercation, both parties were shipped off no questions asked.

Tensions ran somewhat strained there as there were no women at all. Booze cost all of 25 cents for a highball, ergo the no fighting rule. The folks there had plenty of money for the booze too as they had free room and board and paid little to no taxes under the IRS 510 rule. If one got hard up enough for the sight of a female they could go down to the air terminal and maybe catch a glimpse of a rather large Samoan lady or two when the flight came through every week but that was about it for contact with the fairer sex. The contractors spend months on end there so they tended to get a little squirrely and crazy when they hit Hawaii for the occasional leave allowed them under the tax code. They had a lots of cash and what amounted to a full head of steam. You can probably imagine the rest. I can say that they had nothing to learn from any sailor past or present.

I obtained my NAUI scuba certification there and still have a Canton Island Dive Club patch. It had and I'm sure it still does have some of the best coral reef diving in the world. It offers crystal clear water every day of the week. The water is like a bathtub so no wet suit is needed if you keep stay say 60' and above. I wore a pair of cutoffs and a T shirt. The ride in and out of the mouth of the lagoon during the tide changes is a real blast. The entire lagoon fills and drains through the one narrow opening to the open ocean.

There is a very interesting story about the pack of stray dogs left behind by the Pan Am folks that taught themselves to fish cooperatively as a pack. It was written up in National Geographic. It's an amazing but true story, I've seem them do it.

The only naturally occurring land critters that I observed there were hermit craps, thousands upon thousands of them. There were of course lots of fish and bird life. The only plant life beyond scrub brush and a few grasses was some coconut palms but those were mostly on what was then the British side of the island.

When I was there, there was no physical British presence or even structure on the so called British side. 24.6.112.137 01:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Military Presence Through 1973

My boss said he was stationed on this island in 1972 and 1973, and that there were still people there when he left. Who said that the American presence ended in 1968? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misopogon (talk • contribs) 15:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

How to get there?

Does someone know how to get there nowadays? Sounds interesting for the article! Belgian man (taBold textlk) 10:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Interested in Going there too

Does anyone know what can be done to get there these days or how to arrange a visit? Phil. [October 26th, 2009]

(Check out www.phoenix-islands.com they run trips every year from Apia in Samoa)

In the meantime, I have found something on the new Kiribati tourism website: here. The only company that serves Kanton with passenger services is Kiribati Shipping Services Ltd, under Shipping and Ferry Services. Greetings, Belgian man (talk) 14:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I was there in August 2008 and took a lot of pictures. They are posted on flickr.com, so if you want to take a look search for 'kanton island'. My id there is joann94024. As far as getting there I took a very rough trip using Pacific Expeditions operating out of the Cook Islands. I can't really recommend that route, but it is a way to get there if you are really determined. First though I'd check out the supply ship to see if that is a possibility. See link in above post. Joann94024 (talk) 06:28, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Nice pictures! I would prefer the route from Tarawa, sounds interesting to combine the trip with the rest of Kiribati :) Greetings, Belgian man (talk) 08:34, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Excellent photos!! I'd seen them before, when I was doing a Flickr search on the Phoenix Islands. Thanks so much for sharing them with the rest of us! The link is below, in an earlier entry I'd made on this subject. - Ecjmartin (talk) 10:41, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Its interesting that you would want to go to Kanton Island. I was there back in 1942 when the rifle company I was part of was sent there, from Hawaii to increase the presence of defensive troops to protect the army Air force fighter planes who were bombing the Japanese troops prior to the battle of the marines at Tarawa. We were there for 13 months. At that time there was only one tree on the island. A coconut palm. Nothing there really but small crabs by the millions. All our water was distilled at a portable plant and there was very little rain. that is until the navy dynamited a passage at the north end of the island so small boats could enter the lagoon. before this opening was made the sun heated up the lagoon so that a warm bubble of air was over the Island which caused th rain clouds to split and go around the island. After that rain came directly over the island and we had to change the flat roofs of our quarters to pyramidal. There is nothing else on this place that you can enjoy unless you are a boater with a nice yacht. I am surprised that 41 people, as reported, can live on this island. Kernelned@Bellsouth.net

I've seen some old photos from the 30's and 40's of Kanton, and I can relate to what you write about the lack of vegetation on the island during that era. More recent pictures indicate a much greater presence of foilage and trees, at least around the village on the island's west side. Check some of them out at http://www.flickr.com/photos/72923065@N00/sets/72157607566623483/ (This is a Flickr user's account of her voyage to Kanton and other Phoenix Islands a few years ago. The Kanton Island photos start at the bottom of pg. 1 and continue onto pg. 2.). Perhaps the airline and other personnel stationed on the island during the 50's, 60's and 70's contributed to that, together with the increased rainfall you spoke of above. Thanks for sharing your memories! - Ecjmartin (talk) 00:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Recent deletion of commercial advert

Just an opinion, here, but since this is a talk page, the rules of what is allowed here are very much relaxed, compared to the main article text. I wholeheartedly concur with the decision of the editor who recently removed the commercial advert from the article texts of the various Phoenix Island articles, as that most emphatically does NOT belong in the article itself. However, on the talk page, especially here when it's being given in answer to a query on how to get there, it doesn't seem out of line to allow a reference to that company. Like I said, it's just my opinion. - Ecjmartin (talk) 01:04, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Naming

The article states that "The atoll was initially named "Mary Ballcout's Island" after the shipowner's wife." As Daniel Bennett owned both Phoenix and Mary, it is not clear who Mary Ballcout was, and who she was married to. Googling "Mary Ballcout" does not provide any answers. Acad Ronin (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Airplane crashes

The article states, "It was the site of at least two airplane crashes during the war: on 19 July 1944 and 5 December 1945." World War II ended on 2 September 1945. Therefore, the crash on 5 December 1945 could not have occurred during the war. Bill S. (talk) 18:33, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Name

The Constitution of Kiribati (1979) says that the alternate names of this island are Canton Island or Kanton or Abariringa. And Canton Island is the usual name in English (there is no C letter in Gilbertese). --Arorae (talk) 08:50, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 21 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) Red Slash 19:31, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

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Kanton Island → Canton Island – English and common name of this island of the Pacific Arorae (talk) 06:05, 20 May 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 08:24, 28 May 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Elli (talk | contribs) 14:14, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:55, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Arorae and 162 etc.: Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:00, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• Can you cite some sources? A glance at the references shows that "Canton" has been replaced by "Kanton" in most recent publications, including Encyclopaedia Britannica. 162 etc. (talk) 14:26, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• The Constitution of Kiribati (written only in English, 1979 but revised in 2018) writes both spellings, Canton or Kanton, like all recent articles in the press (as this one Asia Times.--Arorae (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Both of these sources use Kanton first, then mention Canton as an alternate spelling - much like the Wikipedia article currently does. 162 etc. (talk) 22:03, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose: A bad idea — demonstrating Wiki ignorance if done. One might defer to official and international standards and discussions before making an amateur and uninformed assumption. Geographic Names Standardization Policy for Kiribati (pages 6—7) by the United States Board on Geographic Names Foreign Names Committee is an example. "Kanton" is the preferred name with the comment in a footnote (my emphasis):

The observant reader will notice the use of both Canton and Kanton in the Kiribati 2010 census; however, the former appears seven times, the latter almost ten times as often. Statistically, then, Kanton prevails to become the primary name for collection.

So, just applying Wikipedia's standard for reference dominance "Kanton" is the term by a 10X majority of local usage. Any change to "Canton" would be objectionable and a "personal preference" as the experts have done the work proving otherwise. Palmeira (talk) 15:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Personal preference? Do you speak Gilbertese language? Have you heard of Canton Island before? Who are you for speaking about Wikipedia ignorance? The President of Wikipedia? Am I ignorant? Of course. I am a nobody and I do not know all the recommendations on this project. This remote and small island was named Canton for years and years and was an important airport until WWII. In 1979, the Constitution of Kiribati (English written) wrote in its last table: Kanton or Canton Island (because there is no C letter in Gilbertese). There are only 21 Gilbertese living there (2020 Census, official preliminary results). And most of the Gilbertese when they wrote it they wrote Canton Island (to distinguish from Chinese Canton city). But of course some also prefer to use the 13 letters of Gilbertese alphabet. Dominance and usage is my preferred solution. If you say that Kanton has replaced predominantly Canton Island, you can say that with better manners. And facts.--Arorae (talk) 15:50, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Experts, professionals, as noted above, have collected data, made the evaluation, reached a conclusion and published the result. By Wikipedia standards that is a citation for "Kanton" and that is just one of several. The old use of "Canton" is covered along with another name in the opening sentence. Changing the title would be a flagrant disregard of "encyclopedic" practice so oft stated as policy here in favor of your personal view. Palmeira (talk) 20:26, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support. The proposed title is far more common in English-language sources based on the Google Ngrams.[3] Rreagan007 (talk) 18:38, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support. The problem seems to be that there is no "C" in the local alphabet, but this is English Wikipedia. In English it appears that the traditional spelling continues to predominate. Andrewa (talk) 01:59, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support as already explained before: no C letter in Gilbertese spelling and the C of Canton was replaced by K. Kanton is not the native name just the adaptation of English name.--Arorae (talk) 11:20, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Edited to strike, RM nominator should not vote on own proposal. 162 etc. (talk) 17:15, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

• Observation to all: The problem with the "English language" arguments here is simply this. Whether there is a "C" or not in the local alphabet or not, how "K" got there is irrelevant. International, modern use is Kanton. A search of mapping and charting agencies worldwide shows the published current material will be Kanton in the majority of cases. So, anyone running across "Kanton Island" from maps, charts, international reports, modern publications of all sorts and checking on Wikipedia is going to do a time travel to the past. One may as well argue that "English uses Peking, not Beijing, and my Google search got lots of hits on Peking" — even if they are from the 20th century and not so recent. Any current publication using that name demonstrates its archaic tendency. Probably a futile argument here, but Wikipedia not adhering to international, official naming standards does make it glare as an amateur operation and by no means a "reliable source" (not that it claims to be one). Palmeira (talk) 03:08, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support . The above example of Beijing/Peking is a nonsense in the Kiribati situation. Canton Island was a British/American island until 1979, known only with this name. Kanton is official (in the Constitution of Kiribati only since 1979, and the text of the Constitution writes Canton OR Kanton (both are legal denominations). And because this atoll is a very small one, there is nothing to compare with a city, capital of China. As clearly written here, it is (just) an alternate name.--RotachZ (talk) 06:35, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.