Talk:Carol Kaye

Controversy over credits

I'm aware this issue has been discussed before. If reliable sources to justify the allegations against Ms Kaye are not provided, I will remove the section per policy at WP:BLP. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:39, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Would a sworn affidavit by the guy who was with one of the tracks she claimed to play bass on from writing it through recording to actually boxing up the single and mailing it be considered a "reliable source" ? Would Carol Kaye herself admitting she never set foot in Detroit - ever - be considered a "reliable source" ? Would her former colleagues in The Wrecking Crew denying they played on tracks she claimed they did along with her be considered a "reliable source" ? This controversy is based on an established fact: Carol Kaye did NOT play on ANY of the MoTown hits she claimed she did. She also never played on at least two Beach Boys tracks she claims to ("Surfin' USA" & "I Was Made To Love Her", as established by the musician contracts) and some Jan & Dean trcaks as well ("Surf City, for example). These are not up for discussion: they are facts. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 07:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

So.... "facts" are not up for discussion? Wikipedia is more about sources than facts. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 16:50, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Wichita Lineman credit and sources

Why is the Don Bagley credit given prominence? The ref to Rhinestone Cowboy makes no sense to me

Don Bagley played bass on Wichita Lineman. Carol Kaye played percussion. See link to contract for session work - :http://www.wreckingcrewfilm.com/afmcontracts/Campbell,Glen_WichitaLineman.pdf and "Rhinestone Cowboy" (Glen Campbell)

On Carol Kaye site http://www.carolkaye.com/www/library/faq.htm FAQ 10 I never forgot what a thrill it was to cut "Wichita Lineman" for Glen. And yes, he borrowed my Dano 6-stg. bass guitar to play his famous solo on (also for Galveston).

Here is a clip of Carol Kaye showing her intro to Wichita Lineman http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p013nf55

On Carol Kaye site on the bongos credit FAQ 30 is the (note: Am listed as bongos player on a great deal of the Ray Charles hit records contracts!) Carol Kaye says http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/carol-kaye-my-10-greatest-recordings-of-all-time-508956/7 and lists her playing on the song as in her top 10 http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/carol-kaye-my-10-greatest-recordings-of-all-time-508956/7 the wiki page Wichita Lineman has Carol Kaye as bass guitar

I will clip from article insert it here and edit Davdevalle (talk) 14:33, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Would some of the discussion here even be the slightest relevant if she had been a man? But she is a woman, and a woman does not contribute to rock music. is that what some of you think?! This woman has done more to the music inustry than a bunch of notorious guys. That´s for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.194.191.191 (talk) 00:49, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

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Elvis Presley,

I have removed Elvis from the list because according to Jorgensen, Elvis Presley: A Life in Music, The Complete Recording Sessions, forward by Peter Guralnick, St. Martin’s Press, New York, 1998, the only session she was booked in for Elvis was Aug 22, 1967 and it was cancelled, and she still got paid a 3 hour minimum. If there are others please let us know. Carptrash (talk) 18:12, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Carol Kaye/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 100cellsman (talk · contribs) 19:38, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this article soon.

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   "Her tracks for Quincy Jones so impressed him" I found this wonky.

   I don't think that needs to be there - the sentence makes sense without it Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:22, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

   "but has continued her career and has been praised by many musicians for her work." Maybe it's just me, but I personally tend to be bothered when I see the same word (had) being used multiple times in the same sentence.

   Tweaked Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:22, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Paraphrase the section where she played bebop jazz in nightclubs. (Don't worry about the twitter profile being listed in the copyvio detector, I'm pretty sure they copied and pasted some of the article.)

   How's that? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:08, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

   Looks good!100cellsman (talk) 23:53, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   "Dr. John has said that Kaye "is a sweetheart and a kick-ass guitar player as well as a kick-ass bass player"." I feel that this quoted statement from someone else on her official website is in poor taste here.

   In what way? I've said on-wiki that I think Megalibrarygirl is "a sweetheart and a kiss-ass librarian as well as a kick-ass Wikipedian" [1] and nobody seemed to mind. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:03, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

   Forgive my lack of context. The quote isn't bad, but it was by another artist that is sourced by her official website, a primary source. It could seem like that the site could have warped his quote.100cellsman (talk) 22:21, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

   I don't think so, it does like sound the sort of thing that Dr. John would say, and particularly towards fellow studio musicians who joked around with each other to pass the time. I don't think Kaye would have mentioned it if it had any possibility of being libellous. If this is the one thing holding up review, we can always get a second opinion. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:50, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

   "In one interview segment, she said at the peak of her session activity she was making more money than the US President." Although I could verify it, something about this statement feels off. Perhaps its the wording.

   Changed it to "In one interview segment, she said that she believed ..." which makes it more clear the article is talking specifically about her opinion, and nothing else. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:03, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

   Ritchie333, can I hear your thoughts on these tidbits?

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   So you were unable to find any free images of her? I often refer to myself as an expert free image finder (not really), but I couldn't find some either, so I'll let that go.

   Nope, but there aren't many images of her full stop, she was just the sort of person who knuckled down and got on with the job. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:12, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   So despite that irk I had about that quote from Dr. John, which is to me not that important for a second opinion, I decided to pass the article. Thank you for your contribution to it, I feel privileged to have learned about such an important musician, albeit obscured.100cellsman (talk) 23:06, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

   Thanks for the review. It's good that sources are finally starting to document her work; as you can see, she's a bit of a superhero. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:09, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey Ritchie333, you haven't left any sort of input three days since I started this review. Are you going to work on this article? I'll be failing it in a week if there is no activity.100cellsman (talk) 02:48, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

I was just assuming you were going to add more comments before tackling it. I'll take a look this afternoon, hopefully. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:33, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Hooray! You replied! I can definitely provide more insight while reviewing it.100cellsman (talk) 23:53, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Disputes

I have noticed a trend for several things on this article recently:

1. The linking of YouTube clips that are copyright violations. Please don't do this, they can't be used on a free encyclopedia. This link has more information.
2. All information must comply with the biographies of living people. In particular, note, "We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources." Edits that do not cite sources, or cite questionable ones may potentially contain libel and will need to be removed. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:42, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Carol-Kaye-1955.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:07, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

"Surfin' USA"

Carol has claimed for decades that she's playing on the Beach Boys version of this, also claiming Billy Strange was at the session too. The AFM contract lists only The Beach Boys, and David Marks confirms there was no woman at the recording session. My guess was that she played on a cover version, thinking it was the BB recording, and the earliest such cover I could find was by The Hot Doggers, released in spring 1963. This group was actually a bunch of studio musicians assembled by Terry Melcher & Bruce Johnston. Taken me a few years but very recently I got hold of the AFM contracts for the album, and guess what? There's Carol Kaye & Billy Strange on guitars at the March 12th session (eight days after the BB single was released). That's that sorted, then. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 12:42, 18 June 2024 (UTC)