Talk:Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

Untitled

Someone just added a famous CKCS as "pet of Ocean Park", which leads to a dab page with 2 locations, not people. Can anyone clarify who "Ocean Park" is or is supposed to be? Elf | Talk 17:50, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pic request

The photos on the page are all particularly great, but we do seem to be a bit Blenheim-heavy. Can everyone be on the lookout for usable shots of Tris, Rubies or B&Ts? The Tom 20:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, we need the other colours on here, otherwise readers might think that all Cavaliers are Blenheims.

- I have found images that seem to be suitable for this article. I'm about to upload them Wikipedia for this purpose.--Acelor 15:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure those are public domain? The Tom 20:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

- I am pretty positive they are, but if this is not the case, you may feel free to edit them out of the article. --Acelor 00:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Removed the image of the CKC on the floor, as it really is: unimportant to the topic; a blatant attempt for someone to advertise their own dog for the world to see; unrelated to the overall theme of the articlethere are already enough images of the CKC here that anyone would need to see another to get the image point across. 65.215.94.13 (talk) 17:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I have a lot of good photos of my Tri who has a long well groomed coat, I have photos of him with plain backgrounds and photos of him running and being active! BassoonyTunes (talk) 18:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes I agree we do need more tri and black and tan, but I do not see the problem posting your own dog? 2601:408:600:4830:D042:8585:EB40:5635 (talk) 02:34, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Plus I have many images of my beautiful pup he is black and tan

@ 2601:408:600:4830:D042:8585:EB40:5635 (talk) 02:38, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

This article already has a lot of images as it is. Unless your image showcases something new, or it is better than an existing image (in which case you should replace it) I would recommend to not add any image. Traumnovelle (talk) 06:37, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

i have a chocolate cavalier URGURLNELE (talk) 09:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Chocolate is not a recognised colour and I'm not aware of it being a non-standard colour for working dogs as opposed to show dogs like red Golden Retrievers. Traumnovelle (talk) 09:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

just because chocolate is not a recognised colour does not mean they are not dogs, they still exist URGURLNELE (talk) 10:16, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

But we don't need a photo of every colour that has been crossbred into a breed or spawns de novo. Traumnovelle (talk) 10:19, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

well then how would anyone know they exist URGURLNELE (talk) 10:51, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

With coverage in reliable secondary sources, and if such coverage doesn't exist then they are not important enough to include. Traumnovelle (talk) 10:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Least wolf-like?

Just removed this: "The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is the most demesticated breed of dog in the world, meaning it is the least wolf-like." added by anon User:144.134.163.151. I have no idea what this means (in what way more unwolflike than other breeds?) and no references cited. Elf | Talk 20:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

A googled about and managed to pull up this study, which seems to be where the anon is drawing the conclusion. Interesting stuff, actually, and worth re-including in a revised form—it seems that the Cavalier was only the least wolflike of the ten breeds selected for the study. The Tom 21:30, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, seems that this info would be more suitable for an article like selective breeding or neotony or some such--I might (might) poke around at some point (when? --) and see what looks appropriate. Or I might not... Thanks for finding this, though; it *is* interesting, although it follows on the fox-breeding program from some time back that showed that breeding for people-friendliness aka puppy-like behavior also inadvertently bred for puppy-like anatomical features. Elf | Talk 21:40, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

The article linked to by The Tom seems to be complete crap. This article is solid science, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?list_uids=15155949&db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract

and Cavaliers are included in the study. There are other breeds that seem to be genetically more distant from the wolf. Lord Kelvin 02:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Blindness from Keratoconjunctivitis Sicca

I've had Cavaliers as pets for over a decade now and a majority of the time they suffer from Keratoconjunctivitis Sicca, Here is what my local vet says: "This disease harmful and does lead to blindness in dogs." I think the medical session was sad, but it was good to know what happened, in general could do with a fair bit of a slower breaking this to me.Cavaliers are certainly more prone to various inherited diseases than a lot of other dog breeds on account of their relatively narrowly-sourced gene pool, butt this article gives the impression every Cavalier in existence is living on borrowed time.

Temperament

I have bred Cavalier King Charles Spaniels three times and never has a dog bitten anyone, except a playful nibble. I would have to recommend these dogs. The only caution is that they are prone to back problems and dry eye,and ear infections.They are still exellent with children and are the ultimate lap dog.

Derivation of name Cavalier

I am surprised by the suggestion that Cavalier is derived from King Charles. Cavalier simply means a horseman or horse-mounted soldier, with overtones of chivalry (same root - deriving from the Latin or cognate language word for "horse" - like "cheval" in French, and "chevalier" for knight or mounted fighting man or, going back to English, "cavalry" for horse-mounted troops). The English Civil War which toppled King Charles I is often characterised as a battle of "Cavaliers" and "Roundheads" i.e. of royalists (who were rich enough to be mounted) and Parliamentarians (who had distinctive helmets). No doubt that is why the combination "Cavalier King Charles" was chosen - it is all of a period piece. But I don't think Cavalier means "Charles" or "Prince Charles" or "King Charles". Anyone able to offer a source for this? Chelseaboy 18:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Cavalier Spanies are as big as the beagle and should not be called a lap dog or atoy dog they deserve to be in the spaniel group they are great bird flushers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.167.178 (talk) 23:57, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't say that it is derived from the name Charles, does it? It's just that "Cavalier" was an epithet applied to King Charles. The "King Charles" bit fairly obviously does refer to King Charles... -- Ian Dalziel 18:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The dogs were nicknamed King Charles' Cavalier because they follwed him everywhere he went. That is also why they are still allowed in public places. Cavalier - horse mounted soldier, is the true meaning of the word, but they don't ride alone. [A. James, Feb. 2007]

Would you have a source for any of that? -- Ian Dalziel 17:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Chelseaboy is correct, King Charles I's supporters were referred to as Cavaliers. It makes sense that his loyal dogs would be called the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.173.242.228 (talk) 18:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

The "Cavalier" part of the name was derived as follows: at the Crufts show where a prize was offered for 'spaniels of the old type' (see breed history section) the Landseer painting "King Charles Spaniels (The Cavalier's Pets)" was used as an example for the desired type. Although Charles I owned a Cavalier-type spaniel, it was Charles II who popularized the breed and Charles II is the King Charles after whom they are named. The prefix "Cavalier" was adopted from the subtitle of the Landseer painting to distinguish the two types. Various UK breed club sites have details about the Landseer picture, eg www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/pets/2011/nov11/compan.html Malentaheloyse (talk) 20:04, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

No reference to the Pug?

It's my understanding that the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel was at one point mixed with the pug to produce the flatter faced CKCS. I've even seen a TV special on the CKCS that goes into great detail about this. Shouldn't it be mentioned in the article? Jmatthew3 18:52, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Other way round, I think - the Cavalier was an attempt to return to the seventeenth century strain which had been crossed with Oriental toys to produce the King Charles Spaniel. (Which is covered in the History section) -- Ian Dalziel 20:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Black and Tan Photo

I reverted the black and tan photo: Blackandtansleeping.jpg to the pre-January 2008 black and tan photo: blackandtan.jpg because blackandtan.jpg has sharper contrast, superior photo quality, and displays the black and tan coloration. D-Looth (talk) 03:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

Why doesn't someone add the photo of the cavaliers from the "dog" entry. There is an excellent photo there showing three cavaliers of varying colors —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.80.44.231 (talk) 19:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cavalier King Charles Spaniel/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I will begin reviewing the article and will make straightforward changes, comments below. You know the drill :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

• On reading, I don't really understand how/why there was a divergence from the King Charles Spaniel.

• Added clearer information to the lead section, and broke the history section in two. Miyagawa (talk) 18:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• It is a friendly, affectionate breed which is good with children, cats and dogs of all sizes. Due to its spaniel heritage, however, it requires training to behave around smaller animals and pets such as hamsters and gerbils. - I'd reduce this to a single sentence on temperament and place further down the lead I think.

• Done. Miyagawa (talk) 18:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• They have an instinct to chase pretty much anything that moves, and therefore should be kept on a leash when out in the street. - the challenge here is how to make it sound less like a pet manual. The aim would be to reword to state what happens when unleashed rather than urge readers to leash the dog :)

• Modified that line now and lead it into the following sentence. Miyagawa (talk) 21:30, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• The term 'polygenic' is unusual - might be a plainer way of saying it.

• Had to do a dictionary search to work out what polygenic meant as the health section was pretty much left alone from before I started work on it. Replaced with genetic. Miyagawa (talk) 20:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• It would be great to fill out the Popularity section with any figures (or even mention) available from other countries - Australia, South Africa, or Europe/South America etc. How worldwide is it?

• Managed to get figures on the American cities and Australia. The Canadian or United Kennel Club figures I have don't list the Cavalier in either top 20s. Miyagawa (talk) 22:30, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• It isn't clear whether Episodic Falling (EF) is specific to the breed from the text.

• Managed to find a reference stating it was similar to Scotty Cramp - gotta love Google Books. Miyagawa (talk) 21:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• There are, however, exceptions to this situation - leaves me hanging....

• Removed the line - I've looked around on the web and can't seem to find what those exceptions are, or any confirmations of exceptions appart from that one source. Miyagawa (talk) 20:49, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• Aah well, one of those unsolved mysteries....Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:13, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

• World War II caused a drastic setback to the breed, with the vast majority of breeding stock destroyed because of the hardship. - what? leaves me hanging and wanting to know more (!)

• Managed to find a qualitative reference for one of the kennels that survived (if you could 3 remaining spaniels as that).Miyagawa (talk) 23:10, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• Might be hard, but I think comparing health issues with the King Charles would be interesting if there is any discussion available.

• Couldn't find a direct comparison, but I found what seems to be a definitive reference for King Charles/Toy Spaniel health issues, so added that instead and a line to the start of the health section. Miyagawa (talk) 23:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Overall, fascinating read and potentially a great article. Be nice to get this one featured. Funny how sometimes articles come together well and sometimes they don't initially. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay, we are there. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Rage Syndrome

I don't know much about it, but I learnt somewhere that some of the black versions of this dog can have something called rage syndrome. I don't know why it's only the black coloured dogs, or much about the actual syndrome, but from what I heard the dog can become completely hostile and violent for up to 10 minutes with no provoking or reason, then suddenly act as if it doesn't remember ever hurting anyone. It might be worth looking into. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.37.199 (talk) 09:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

There isn't any black versions of a Cavalier. The only black spaniels would be a Field Spaniel, Cocker Spaniel or a cross of both (or a spaniel cross). Miyagawa (talk) 19:34, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

hallo, een king charles is een hond men gebruikt die in Engeland om te jagen het is een mooi diersoort Bold text — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.193.101.171 (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Looks like what you mean is English Cocker Spaniel (not Chavalier spaniel) which has solid black coloration. In Rage syndrome article it's clearly said "Rage syndrome can be more common in solid colored English Cocker Spaniels" and its photo shows black coloured, maybe you're just having deja vu — Preceding unsigned comment added by BlazingTrail (talk • contribs) 03:07, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Cavalier King Charles Spaniel/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The health section is the one of the best I've seen in a dog article to date. The temperament section could be expanded. That section has a hint of anthropomorphism in a dog "presuming" something. Be mindful to not let this sort of tone slip into any expansions. Needs references. The appearance section should include more about the general appearance and build. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 22:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 03:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 11:05, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Coloring variations

There is a picture on this article that features a tricolor cavalier but then mentions the spot on the top of the skull. I need to find a source but the spot on the top of the skull is only true of the red and white variety. The tricolor standard is the white "blaze" that goes between the eyes. This is according to a reputable breeder that I have gotten my dog through. Owright1014 (talk) 22:40, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Decree: source?

King Charles II went so far as to issue a decree that the King Charles Spaniel could not be forbidden entrance to any public place, including the Houses of Parliament.

According to everything I know and have read, this seems to be true... but does anyone know or have the original text/formulation of this decree? It's nice to see for every CKCS-owner (personally I'm very curious)and I think, of course, it's good to supply a reference by this statement as well.

--The Beagle 20:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Slippers and feathers

The article refers to "slippers" and "feathers". These should be linked to relevant articles and/or explained within this article, because they don't have the ordinary everyday meaning of slippers or feathers. —DIV (1.129.110.25 (talk) 01:46, 19 May 2019 (UTC))

Cross-breeds

I propose that this article should refer to cross-breeds that are derived from the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. An example of this is the beaglier.

The reference could constitute any of the following:

• detailed exposition in a section of this article;
• brief exposition in a section of this article, with a link to more detailed treatment in a separate article;
• single link in the See also section to detailed exposition in a separate article;
• multiple links in the See also section to separate articles for each notable cross-breed; or
• a new template at the foot of the article, in the style of Template:Toy_dogs, which might be be entitled Cross-breeds derived from the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, or Spaniel breeds, or similar.

—DIV (1.129.110.25 (talk) 01:55, 19 May 2019 (UTC))

Are cavaliers a healthy breed?

This is a concern, as some people say they’re healthy, while others say that they aren’t. So which answer is right:

Healthy, or not that healthy?

Nathan;dlsa (talk) 17:02, 5 April 2021 (UTC) Nathan;dlsa

well i've had two and they both died pretty young so i would say unhealthy Iammenallyill (talk) 12:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)