Talk:Central Coast Mariners FC

Sections within "History"

I think that the history section could do with some organisation. I suggest it might be a good idea to place the period up to early 2010 under a heading along the lines of "Lawrie McKinna Era". Any opinions on that? I'll also try to update some of the history.Mcpaulrus (talk) 11:03, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Manager details and figures

I have been trying to keep the figures for Lawrie Mckinna up to date but I think that they might be very incorrect! What can we do to correct it? I would personally go back and count it all up but I don't get on much. Any suggestions would be helpful! Cheers Drizzt Jamo 22:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

does the mariners' site have the info? Dibo ^{T | C} 00:58, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Good Idea! I will check! Cheers Dibo! Drizzt Jamo 22:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Nope, It's not there. Any other ideas? Drizzt Jamo 22:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Final Summary

I added a summary of the final at the end of the breif bit at the start of the article. It needs to be cut down to make it a bit more short. Any help doing so would be helpful! Cheers Drizzt Jamo 01:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Update

This page appears to have been kept up to date until it achieved FA status, and is now outdated in almost all sections Stu.W UK (talk) 18:03, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I would like to include mention of the clubs first appearance at the AFC Champions League in 2009.[1]

Would like to add that Argentinian Patricio Perez will be on board for the next two Hyundai A-League seasons.[2] SeekerAfterTruth (talk) 16:19, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Michael McGlinchey

As anyone watching the page has probably figured by now, Michael McGlinchey is a Scottish footballer. He may not be considered Scottish, but a New Zealander, however, per the guideline on the use of flags for sportspeople, the flag displayed next to his name in football articles must be a Scottish one, as he has played matches for the Scottish national U-20 team. If anyone feels that he most definitely is a New Zealand footballer, I strongly encourage you to speak up here. Thanks, timsdad ^(talk) 09:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

There was talk earlier this week, about McGlinchey being called up by Ricki Herbet for the NZ NT for their next game. Nath1991 (talk) 05:57, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, McGlinchley has now played games for the senior New Zealand team. Mcpaulrus (talk) 07:36, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Chairman

The chairman position is inconsistent in the article. In the right hand summary it's still listed as Ian Keirnan, yet we all know (as validated by Mariners site) it is Peter Turnbull, as it is listed in the article proper. (davidab (talk) 00:35, 19 March 2011 (UTC))

Current A-League squad

The current A-League squad is leaving out the players with numbers 7 - 14. I have tried to fix this myself, but in the edit section everything seems to be in order even though when I preview the change, it is still wrong. I would ask that a more experienced Wikipedian please fix it themselves, as I have tried and failed :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbowden9000 (talk • contribs) 09:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Fixed...Superfluous ! at the end of the <!-- comment--> block--ClubOranje^T 10:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't Usain Bolt's short term trial contract put him in the squad list or should it wait until we know if they offer him a more permanent contract? He's already made an impact by scoring 2 goals in a test game.

Here are some source information:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/17/usain-bolt-trial-australia-central-coast-mariners

https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/10/12/usain-bolt-goal-video-central-coast-mariners — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.242.120 (talk) 10:56, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

The convention is not to list trial players. Whatever arrangement he has at the moment isn't enough to be eligible for competitive games. He may well sign soon (so worth watching this space of course), but until if/when that happens he shouldn't be added to the squad. Macosal (talk) 00:26, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Marinators

This group is defunct now right? Replaced by one named "The Coastie Boys" as far as I know? Anyone got any sources? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.139.217 (talk) 14:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I believe something like that is the case. There are a few sources that say they exist but I haven't seen anything considered reliable that say they replaced the Marinators or that the Marinators are defunct. Camw (talk) 19:25, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Patrick Zwaanswijk

He was added to the squad a while ago, but there's no profile of him on the CCM website, and i can't find any source claiming he's signed for them. What's the deal with this guy? not even his page has any source saying he's signed for the club. Nath1991 (talk) 07:29, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Article concerns - FAR issues

This article has been nominated to appear as WP:Today's Featured Article but it is far below current standards. Per the first stage of the Featured article review process, I am posting a list of concerns here. If these are not addressed, the article may lose its featured status. In no particular order:

• Deadlinks marked since January 2013
• Unsourced statements marked since January 2013
• Seasons are referred to using slashes, hyphens and dashes, and sometimes using six digits and sometimes eight (e.g. 2008/2009, 2010–11, 2012-2013)
• "The Mariners are currently competing in the last 16 phase of the Asian Champions League." No they are not.
• "The Mariners Centre of Excellence is currently being constructed in Tuggerah and will then become the clubs headquarters." This is only in the lead, not the rest of the article, shouldn't use "currently" and needs grammar fixing.
• "Lawrie McKinna era" - the last five paragraphs of this sub-section have one reference between them, and peacock/POV phrases such as "the many fine Youth Academy players", "following a remarkable final round", "match ended in controversy", "this was controversially referred to as a strike", "The 2008–09 season was disappointing compared to the standards set in the previous season"
• "Graham Arnold era" - problems include "On the 21st of April 2013" (wrong type of date format) and "remarkable debut season"
• "Colours and badge" - choppy prose, grammatical errors, unsourced statements.
• "Stadium" - "As of December 2007" shows this FA's age.
• "Rivalries" - shouldn't be just an unexplained list; ditto for "affiliated clubs"
• "Club officials" - unsourced
• "Managers" - needs updating
• "Individual honours" - "most prestigious award" POV, all awards uncited

I haven't looked at the sourcing. Other people may find other problems. Bencherlite^Talk 11:39, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Changes from "Socceroos" to "Australia national association football team"

In this and several other articles Macktheknifeau has unilaterally changed the word "Socceroos" to "Australia national association football team". (Sometimes with the word "player" tacked on for sanity, but hardly for clarity and simplicity.) I see these changes as pointy, confrontational, and not in line with the agreed naming of Soccer in Australia There is a centralised discussion on this matter underway at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Football in Australia)#Macktheknifeau doing sweeping, pointy changes again. HiLo48 (talk) 22:49, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

The "fullname" parameter in the Infobox.

Rather than edit warring here, I have begun a thread at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Football in Australia)#Full names of soccer clubs to discuss how we should use the "fullname" parameter in the Infobox template. Unfortunately it seems to be being used by some to continue to now sneakily press the claim that their game is called football. HiLo48 (talk) 08:36, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Is the club a plural or singular entity?

My English teachers would have failed me if I had written things like "The club were founded in 2004..." It had to be "The club was founded in 2004..." because a club is a single entity. I know language standards change, but we are not totally conistsent. The second paragraph begins with "The club plays matches at...", not "The club play matches at...", so it's being treated as a single entity there.

If we want featured article status, we must at least get the grammar consistent. Obviously I would prefer what I was taught to be the standard (it's far more logical), but might be willing to accept an alternative consensus. What's there now is ugly. HiLo48 (talk) 00:33, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

 Done Thankyou for the thorough response.--2nyte (talk) 01:53, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Cool. Unfortunately, there's a lot more places where the club is treated as a plural entity, e.g. the very first sentence. Maybe I'll go ahead and change them all. I don't think it's controversial. HiLo48 (talk) 02:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

I just noticed that one too. Feel free to go through and correct it.--2nyte (talk) 02:41, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

I switched everything that I could to plural because I've seen this be an issue in several soccer team FACs before. This is one of many examples where this has proved to be a key issue, and I thought going for plural usage throughout would prove to be the least painful approach. Otherwise, you'll run into situations where the grammar becomes ugly due to the usage of the Mariners nickname as a shorthand. If you still want everything singular, though, let me know and I'll be happy to go through the article and change everything. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Okay, the changes should be done now. Giants2008 (Talk) 02:34, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I noticed in the lede sentence it says "in the Central Coast of"...I've never heard of that before. I've only ever heard "on the Central Coast" used. Was this a typo or is there a grammatical rule that everyone seemingly disregards for that? Daniel (talk) 03:00, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

It's fixed now. Giants2008 (Talk) 23:07, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Ta. Daniel (talk) 01:36, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Premiership

The A-League uses the term Premiership differently to all other sports, having it mean 'top of the table' rather than overall champions. Without any explanation this term is confusing. Howabout "Central Coast Mariners has topped the table and won the A-League Premiership twice and claimed one A-League Championship from four Grand Final appearances."Mdw0 (talk) 01:06, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

That wording makes it seem as if topping the table and winning the A-League premiership are two separate achievements (which they are not). I suggest an easy fix would be linking "premiership" to Minor premiership, as I have done in Western Sydney Wanderers FC.--2nyte (talk) 03:13, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I think it needs more than just a hyperlink. How about "Central Coast Mariners have claimed one A-League Championship from four Grand Final appearances, and has topped the table to win the A-League Premiership twice."Mdw0 (talk) 03:51, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I just saw these comments and can see why that might be confusing. I edited the sentence to be similar to Mdw0's proposal (with a couple tweaks), and added a minor premiership link. Giants2008 (Talk) 18:13, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Youth players in Current Squad section

Macosal claims that youth players Reece Papadimitrios, Steve Whyte and Lachlan Wales should be listed in Current Squad section per Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Clubs#Current squad. This does not seem at all the case as they do not have a first team shirt number, and have not played first team football for the club in the past. Macosal responded "they clearly do have first team shirt numbers... 24, 26 and 27", though I'm not sure where he's referencing this from as, apart from Steve Whyte they weren't even named in a squad this season, and Whyte was an unused sub. When youth players get called up to the senior team (usually because there is a shortage of senior players due to injuries or national leave) they get a temporary number for the game. Feel free to glance through season pages and you'll often see on the squad stats more than one youth player listed with the same shirt number. Why? because it's a temporary number, not an assigned number for the season like players with senior contracts have. Whyte is the only one of these 3 players who might warrant being in the Current Squad section, and even that doesn't seem to make sense to me as he didn't actually play. --SuperJew (talk) 10:04, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

I suspect you haven't looked into this particularly much. In fact, the opposite of what you say is true. Youth players, once given a shirt number, retain that number for the entirety of the season. Papadimitrios was listed as number 24 in November. Whyte as 26 in round 17, round 20, round 25 and round 26 and Wales in round 26. Do you have anything to support your statement "Feel free to glance through season pages and you'll often see on the squad stats more than one youth player listed with the same shirt number"? Certainly for the A-League itself in recent seasons I have never observed this to be the case (although they do sometimes vary for other competitions, as is not uncommon worldwide). In fact the opposite is true - notice the number 25 for the Mariners is blank. That is because it was used by Ryan Peterson earlier in the season. When Wales came into the squad this week, I suspect he was given 27 because it was the lowest number not already registered for another player (1-23 for senior contracts, 24 is Papadimitrios, 25 was Peterson and 26 is Whyte). Or look at Sydney FC this season. They have used 2 youth 'keepers in matchday squads - one given the number 30, the next given the number 31. This all pretty clearly indicates that when youth players are given numbers, these numbers are retained as their first team number for the remainder of the season. The guideline is fairly conclusive that players who have first team numbers (as these players do) should be listed. Macosal (talk) 10:50, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Here's a few examples for you: Caletti and Theodore both wore #29, Garuccio and Petreski wore #19, Ingham and Dover wore #23, Trajkovski and Youlley wore #36.

This was also mentioned by 2nyte on my talk page. (Youth players do not have numbers, youth players may play for the senior team, but only if the player is signed to the senior team do they receive an official shirt number.)

And finally, but most importantly, what is the value of adding players who weren't even in the match-day squad to the Current Squad section? --SuperJew (talk) 11:37, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

That comment by 2nyte is from a few years ago now and unsourced - from memory he may have been right at the time but certainly it is no longer the case. As for the examples you give, I flagged this in my earlier comment. Neither Caletti or Theodore were in A-League squads for the Roar in 2015–16 (these numbers were from other comps); nor was Petreski in 2015–16; nor was Dover in 2015–16. As I mentioned, there is nothing unusual about players taking different numbers for different competitions - but all players have had one and only one number for A-League purposes (this is the same for senior players). As for the fourth, Trajkovski was at Sydney Olympic by early 2015, before Youlley took his number for a match in April 2015 (there is nothing unusual about another player taking a number once its previous owner has left). I'm still seeing nothing to suggest once a player takes an A-League number that isn't "his" number. Any e.g.s of a player changing number mid season? As to your broader point, that is something more relevant to discuss at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Clubs, which gives quite a clear guideline. However, my answer would be that their possession of a number is evidence that they are members of the "current squad" properly named, and are therefore of note to those reading about that subject. ArtVandelay13's comments in this discussion express it pretty well. Macosal (talk) 12:01, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

I recall Caletti, Theodore and Dover (and Ingham) being named for A-League squads. Now that I think of it, seems to me that Petreski was named only for Cup squad. On what are you basing your claim that Caletti, Theodore and Dover weren't named in an A-League squad?

The user you mentioned in that discussion says A squad list should be a list of players available in contention for selection. Well, all youth players are available for selection, but yet it would be ridiculous to include all youth players. --SuperJew (talk) 12:43, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could remove the ambiguity by using the format used in the Premier League and call the section "First team squad" and then it will indeed include only senior-contracted players, and the youth players will be linked with a "See also Team FC Youth". --SuperJew (talk) 12:45, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, the players soccerway profiles. Soccerway adds a row and statistic for seasons even if the player only makes it onto the bench but not the field. None of the players I mentioned have rows for the 2015-16 season.

Secondly, you're right, of course it would be ridiculous to add all youth team players to this list. That is why the guideline which has been set in the past is helpful in limiting the number of youth players to be listed here, and reflective of those closer to selection, if not already being selected.

Thirdly, I dislike your alternative. We do already use the same format as the premier league, do we not? The same guideline certainly applies. But likewise, when a player from a premier league acamedy moves into a first team, they will be / should be listed in the squad. But to omit youth contracted players would be counterproductive I think. That distinction is a technical one, and given youth contracted players frequently feature week in-week out for the first team I think it would be unhelpful to omit them. Macosal (talk) 13:38, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Neither Papadimitrios or Wales even have Soccerway pages, since they never made it to a matchday squad. So, by that logic we should not show either of them (I agree with this logic btw). Whyte sat twice on the bench but didn't play. IMO, it should show, as you said, players who "feature week in-week out for the first team".

The difference between the Premier League is that we have "current squad" and they have "first team squad" (which is much more clear definition). Youth players who sign professional contracts have first-team contracts. That's the point. --SuperJew (talk) 14:09, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

You've misunderstood me. I don't think soccerway is in any way related to who we should / shouldn't show, it's just evidence that the players you mentioned earlier didn't receive numbers for A-League games. Also the relevant subsection here is "first team squad" I think you're seeing some abstract difference where there isn't one. Also you're now arguing against a guideline, not about anything related to this page specifically. This is not the place to do that. If you have anything else to say about whether or not these players have first team numbers, do that here; if not, I'll revert back and you can take this discussion to the talk page I linked above. As I see it the current guideline and its application are pretty unambiguous in this case. Macosal (talk) 14:22, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

You missed my point mate. Just as the players you mentioned (Caletti, Theodore and Dover) aren't listed as subs on Soccerway because they were selected for the extended squad, but not the matchday squad, so Papadimitrios and Wales aren't listed as subs on Soccerway because they were selected for the extended squad, but not the matchday squad. You can't argue one way for Caletti, Theodore and Dover and another way for Papa and Wales. --SuperJew (talk) 22:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not "arguing one way" for those players... You raised them as examples of more than one player having the same number, and I'm merely explaining that there was no inconsistency there, they received different numbers for other competitions than the A-League (which, as I said, is standard practice worldwide). The fact remains that youth A-League players, once given a first team number, retain that number for the season. Macosal (talk) 22:21, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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