Talk:Chetana Nagavajara/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Artem.G (talk · contribs) 16:19, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey, I'll be reviewing this article.

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments/question:

lead

• is a Thai academic who is Professor Emeritus of German at Silpakorn University, a public university.[1] He was dean of Faculty of Arts and vice president of the university. - was he a president of Silpakorn? If so, maybe better would be 'of that university', or just completely re-phrasing of these two sentences. F.e. 'is a Thai Professor Emeritus of German at Silpakorn University, a public university,[1] who was dean of Faculty of Arts and vice president of that university in 19xx-20xx'.
• 'Professor Emeritus of German' - German language? literature? or what exactly?
• 'He also served in various important roles in higher education administrations in the country.' - too ambiguous, what were these important roles?
• 'He is later known in Thailand for his contributions to the arts criticism movement and his voice and leadership in the field of the humanities.' - how? did he wrote some influential book, or was a popular leader of some organization?
• lead seems to be not very informative; after reading it I got no idea of how his academic work was important, praised, critisized, etc.

infobox

• Template:Infobox_academic says that Influences and Influenced sections must be referenced from a third-party source. For now there are a bunch of (red) links with no refs.

body

• He obtained a B.A. Honours - probably with honours
• He later moved to Germany - when?
• He received honorary doctorates - when?
• He temporarily left the university to become deputy director of the Southeast Asian Ministers of Education Organization (SEAMEO).[16] He later returned to Silpakorn University in 1976 as Dean of the Faculty of Arts and remained in that position until 1979. He was later promoted to full professor in 1983.[17] He was a vice president for academic affairs and deveopment planning at the university. He was twice visiting scholar at University of Michigan-Ann Arbor in 1985 and 1992[18] and Fulbright Visiting Professor at the University of California, Berkeley in the academic year 1989–1990.[19] He retired as a senior professor (level 11) - can be copyedited a bit, almost every sentence starts with 'he' and it's a bit hard to read.
• However, he still continues - words to watch per MOS:EDITORIAL
• the academia by sitting on government commissions - maybe 'participating' or something?
• His 1965 doctoral dissertation's - use last name in the new paragraph
• ' His second book "Brecht and France" was published in' - remove link from book name, use italic for book name here and throughout the article
• He translated more than 50 pieces of work mainly poetry by other authors, almost exclusively from German to Thai. - unsourced
• He wrote a number of English and German books discussing a transboundary culture of humanities between Thailand and Western countries. - can you provide titles of best-known books?
• Examples of notable subjects of his criticism projects are Chart Korbjitti, Angkarn Kalayanapong, Sri Burapha, Ussiri Dhammachote, The Suntharaphon Band, Bangkok Symphony Orchestra, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra and visiting foreign orchestras and soloists - unsourced
• in Humanities education and Thai higher education second paragraph is completely unsourced, as well as Personal life
• Decorations is unsourced
• refs 18 and 19 seems to be the same, please add years of Fullbright applications to titles
• in External links 2 links are in Thai, please provide translation here

other

• there were a lot of edits over the past few month, though there is no edit war. The nominator is not the main author, and it's a bit strange.
• overall, the article seems to me to be biased in favour of the Chetana Nagavajara, I see no critisism of his work, and very few comments. though I can believe that he is important and praised. I'll think about it later, after looking through sources.

I will put this review onhold for a week, there are a lot of issues that should be addressed. Artem.G (talk) 16:19, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Replies by Karto1

lead

• is a Thai academic who is Professor Emeritus of German at Silpakorn University, a public university.[1] He was dean of Faculty of Arts and vice president of the university. - was he a president of Silpakorn? If so, maybe better would be 'of that university', or just completely re-phrasing of these two sentences. F.e. 'is a Thai Professor Emeritus of German at Silpakorn University, a public university,[1] who was dean of Faculty of Arts and vice president of that university in 19xx-20xx'.  Done
• 'Professor Emeritus of German' - German language? literature? or what exactly?  Done
• 'He also served in various important roles in higher education administrations in the country.' - too ambiguous, what were these important roles?

• Added government-appointed roles

• 'He is later known in Thailand for his contributions to the arts criticism movement and his voice and leadership in the field of the humanities.' - how? did he wrote some influential book, or was a popular leader of some organization?  Done
• lead seems to be not very informative; after reading it I got no idea of how his academic work was important, praised, critisized, etc.

infobox

• Template:Infobox_academic says that Influences and Influenced sections must be referenced from a third-party source. For now there are a bunch of (red) links with no refs.

• The two sections have been removed from infobox.

body

• He obtained a B.A. Honours - probably with honours  Done
• He later moved to Germany - when?  Done
• He received honorary doctorates - when?  Done
• He temporarily left the university to become deputy director of the Southeast Asian Ministers of Education Organization (SEAMEO).[16] He later returned to Silpakorn University in 1976 as Dean of the Faculty of Arts and remained in that position until 1979. He was later promoted to full professor in 1983.[17] He was a vice president for academic affairs and deveopment planning at the university. He was twice visiting scholar at University of Michigan-Ann Arbor in 1985 and 1992[18] and Fulbright Visiting Professor at the University of California, Berkeley in the academic year 1989–1990.[19] He retired as a senior professor (level 11) - can be copyedited a bit, almost every sentence starts with 'he' and it's a bit hard to read.  Done
• However, he still continues - words to watch per MOS:EDITORIAL  Done
• the academia by sitting on government commissions - maybe 'participating' or something?  Done
• His 1965 doctoral dissertation's - use last name in the new paragraph  Done
• ' His second book "Brecht and France" was published in' - remove link from book name, use italic for book name here and throughout the article  Done
• He translated more than 50 pieces of work mainly poetry by other authors, almost exclusively from German to Thai. - unsourced  Done
• He wrote a number of English and German books discussing a transboundary culture of humanities between Thailand and Western countries. - can you provide titles of best-known books?  Done
• Examples of notable subjects of his criticism projects are Chart Korbjitti, Angkarn Kalayanapong, Sri Burapha, Ussiri Dhammachote, The Suntharaphon Band, Bangkok Symphony Orchestra, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra and visiting foreign orchestras and soloists - unsourced  Done
• in Humanities education and Thai higher education second paragraph is completely unsourced, as well as Personal life  Done
• Decorations is unsourced  Done
• refs 18 and 19 seems to be the same, please add years of Fullbright applications to titles  Done
• in External links 2 links are in Thai, please provide translation here  Done

other

• there were a lot of edits over the past few month, though there is no edit war. The nominator is not the main author, and it's a bit strange.
• overall, the article seems to me to be biased in favour of the Chetana Nagavajara, I see no critisism of his work, and very few comments. though I can believe that he is important and praised. I'll think about it later, after looking through sources.

• Added one controversy/criticism of Nagavajara's work under Work and influences/German and comparative literature: His work is not without controversies. In August 1998, during the last seminar in the series for this TRF-funded project, poets took an exception to what he presented as "representative Thai poetry" which include lyrics from modern pop songs but not highly-regarded modern classics. In his interview with the Bangkok Post, he explained that "The protest by the poets at last August's seminar was brief, and had to do with a misunderstanding concerning the concept of value in poetry."

Thanks for the updates! I will re-read the article today or tomorrow, and will resume my review. Artem.G (talk) 05:30, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

final thoughts

I re-read the article, and in my opinion it got much better. A few minor comments, most of them aren't mandatory for GA review, just a thoughts of how to make that article better.

• ref order can be changed René Wellek.[17][6]
• wikilinks that are given to another language wiki can be created with {{ill}} template, I mean something like Kurt Wais instead of Kurt Wais. It can be a bit frustrating when you click on a link and got everything in Thai.
• Photo can probably be taken from here. I believe it would be fair use, though I'm not 100% sure what is the current wiki policy about the photos of living people. Though the uni's policy says 'They may only be copied and printed for private, scholarly, and non-commercial use and for informational purposes, if they contain the copyright reference.'
• and the last one - three entries in Awards are unsourced, and (DAAD)'s study visit seems to be not an award.

And a remark for clarity - I can't read Thai, so i can't verify all Thai sources, though I tried to google-translate some of them.

Other that these minor issues, i see no problems. I'll wait for response, and then make a decision. Artem.G (talk) 20:30, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Artem.G, Karto1, and U6181299: Thanks so much for your hard work. We cannot read German/French and rely on machine translation for our work on this article too. I spent hours searching for a free image for this article but cannot find one at this point. --Taweetham (talk) 08:05, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

• Comment regarding non-free images: Per WP:NFC#UULP, with a few limited exceptions, photos of living people are regarded as replaceable, and not allowed as non-free content on Wikipedia. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:39, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

thanks, I was almost sure that such policy can be in place, but couldn't find one. Artem.G (talk) 06:15, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

With all the issues and comments addressed, I think that article is a GA now. Everything is sourced, written in accordance to MoS, no edit wars present or past, no images (so no copyright violations), and the article is focused and covers all major aspect. Congratulations to all the editors involved! Artem.G (talk) 06:15, 5 August 2021 (UTC)