Talk:Chhota Shakeel

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 17:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Source

All material must be sourced in the article.

Also, I'm putting a tag on the second source since it doesn't look reliable. The website says it is "A RESOURCE CENTER FOR THE PROMOTION OF HINDUTVA", which seems to be a partisan site pushing a certain POV.Bless sins (talk) 05:37, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Sources

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] MX (✉ • ✎) 00:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Updates

• @MX: I had restored an edit noting his death cited to [8] [9] [10] which I reviewed and thought to be reliable, in this edit, but it looks like I may have hidden my accidentally while cleaning up a copyvio. I see now that two of those sources are actually the same editorial, but are they not suitable? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:18, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

@Ivanvector: Thanks for reaching out. I've saved the sources you used above and was planning on expanding the article some more with them. I don't think we can claim for certain that Shakeel is dead when other reliable sources question the evidence presented. I tried my best to explain the rumors surrounding his death, but please feel free to update it as you see fit. In my opinion, an official statement from the government would suffice to confirm his death. He's still on the Interpol's wanted list too, so it wouldn't hurt to wait. MX (✉ • ✎) 15:17, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

• BTW, I think I'm officially done with this article. I don't feel qualified to do more research about the D-Company and its members. Sources above can be used for expansion, but I will get back to working on other articles of mine. I will likely remove this page from my Wathclist after it appears at DYK. Cheers, MX (✉ • ✎) 16:24, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Rumored death

For the record, I want to mention we should not claim as an absolute statement of fact that Shakeel is dead unless we find official sources from the governments of India, the U.S., or the Interpol confirming this. The sources that claim he's dead do not address this investigation conducted by India Today that questions his supposed death story. Until then, we should not treat his rumored death as official. MX (✉ • ✎) 05:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Dear MX,The India Today investigation in itself was a Hoax,they assumed that Shakeel is alive based ONLY on the premise that his voice is alive and that voice never belonged to him but a proxy which has been explained in detail.A man with a Red Corner notice on him cannot be travelling freely all over the work and making calls at will via prepaid sim numbers available in the public domain.The real Chhota Shakeel is actually dead-The ISI is continuing to run him.India or Pak will never declare him dead-for political reasons.Pak till denies he ever lived in Karachi-India does not have the capacity to prove that he did- Catch 22.Only the can.Pakistan is an impossible terrain for the Interpol to run an investigation and you are missing the fact that the rumoured death started off in early 2017 but was confirmed only in 2019 via Ocnus and a Journalist Robert Williamson who used to work with The Boston Globe. There was also a confirmation in 2018 early https://www.oneindia.com/international/chhota-shakeel-is-dead-here-is-the-isis-impersonator-who-runs-the-d-syndicate-now-2611914.html

It is not appropriate to disregard the above article-It clearly states that shakeel is dead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.209.232.225 (talk) 08:07, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

@MX This confirms his Death please read the paper carefully https://limacharlienews.com/asia/organised-crime-in-asia/ 180.183.219.144 (talk) 12:06, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

• Dear MX,The India Today investigation in itself was a Hoax,they assumed that Shakeel is alive based ONLY on the premise that his voice is alive and that voice never belonged to him but a proxy which has been explained in detail. – That's actually not true. The source also comments on the letter and the policeman who allegedly signed it. Again, I'm not here to claim whether Shakeel is alive or dead. The problem here is sources contradict each other, and the newer sources you cite that declare him dead are: (1) not an official announcement; (2) don't comment on this India Today investigation. Why should we give unfair representation to those versions?

• Pak till denies he ever lived in Karachi – You have a source for this specific claim?

• and you are missing the fact that the rumoured death started off in early 2017 but was confirmed only in 2019 via Ocnus and a Journalist Robert Williamson who used to work with The Boston Globe. – Again, we got no OFFICIAL confirmation from U.S., Indian, or Interpol authorities. Ocnus can claim whatever it wants, but the fact that the India Today investigation stands unchallenged (Ocnus pretty much ignores it) means we will have to go by an official statement. Wikipedia is not about truth; it is about verifiability. If we have sources that do not agree on each other, we will need a source that would be authoritative enough for us to move forward. The only source that would be able to provide that is an OFFICIAL announcement from the U.S., India, or the Interpol. Until you have one, it is dishonest to unfairly represent one view over the rest. MX (✉ • ✎) 16:22, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Sources

@Manupriy Ahluwalia: Hello. Not sure what you meant by "additional sources" are needed. All of the information in this article is sourced by the references it cites. I avoided needless repetition when the same source backs up multiple sentences. See WP:REPCITE. The lead summarizes the cited material and does not require sources per WP:LEADCITE. MX (✉ • ✎) 17:05, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Ref Subject Page-Chhota Shakeel

Dear Editors, I am new here and do not know how to edit sources etc-Can someone help me please? I have sources here that confirm that the subject of the page is deceased and not alive-Why is he being projected as alive?

Post, Newsroom (19 January 2021). "How Dawood empire got destroyed by the same ISI that created it". [[11]]. {{cite web}}: |first= has generic name (help)

Navashree, Nandini (15 January 2021). "Dawood In Karachi, Pakistan's ISI Harbouring Chota Shakeel: Arrested Lakdawala". [[12]].

"Former ISI officials confirm the death of Gangster Chhota Shakeel". [[ https://issuu.com]].

Rajendarkhanna (talk) 14:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Changes to Edit

I had provided references and cited sources which prove beyond reasonable doubt that the subject on whom the article is based in indeed deceased,however it was overturned because of a personal opintion which stated "That it was not constructive"-Well,in my personal opinion it constructs the entire narrative the way it should be.Admins please check history.{{Admin help}} Edwardblakes (talk) 04:33, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Edwardblakes. I happen to be an administrator but adminstrators do not resolve content disputes. Any editor's assessment of content matters is valid, as long as it is grounded in policies and guidelines. The sources that you added do not appear to be reliable to me. Which source do you consider most reliable? Cullen328 (talk) 02:53, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

https://www.opednews.com/articles/Indian-Mafia-don-Chhota-Sh-by-Ed-Blakes-India-Pakistan-Conflict_Indian-Country-Today-Media-Network_Narco-terrorism_Reporters-210120-4.html Edwardblakes (talk) 10:45, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Terrible, non-reliable source, not least for a BLP. Nor is the other OneIndia source or the ISUU source reliable. The original reversion, as well as Cullen's objections above, both are correct. JavaHurricane 11:35, 27 February 2023 (UTC)