Talk:Chicago Outfit

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2021 and 21 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rhuetson.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wayhartj.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Is there a purpose to this article if there is wrong info

What scares me about this article of the Chicago Outfit is the wrong info being put in this article. As officer on Chicago Gangs and Crimes Unit for 20 years. I feel that my work is being made into mockery with this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.203.136.247 (talk) 16:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Reply

Is there anything us Wikipedians can do to remove the wrong info? Some way we can contact the person who left this message? Also, I remember an author named Bill Brashler who was on the History Channel program History's Mysteries, specifically an episode entitled The Legacy of Al Capone. In that episode, Brashler stated that the Chicago Outfit was not part of the Mafia, but was, in fact, a general gang. He further said that this explained the reason it was called the Outfit, or "the boys." Is there a way that can be put into this article? And003 (talk) 23:09, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

The article is poorly written, generally, and in need of considerable editing. Also, the information is tangential, at best. For example, O'Banion, Weiss and Drucci preceded, and with the exception of the sensational St. Valentine's Day Massacre and Hollywood-inspired glorification, were inarguably more significant gang-leaders than George "Bugs" Moran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiz8899 (talk • contribs) 18:23, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

This article is one of the worst in Wikipedia. It is full of misinformation and appears to have been either vandalized or edited by someone who is ignorant of the history of the Outfit. It's an example of why Wikipedia cannot be used as a reliable source. It's also an example of an article where someone can take their time to make the necessary corrections only to have someone else screw it up again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.138.222 (talk) 07:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Lack of References

Not even a tenth of this article comes from the scant-few references listed at the bottom of the page. And this isn't a suggestion to start adding on "after-work" references that weren't used as research in the creation of the article, which is an epidemic on Wikipedia. So many times links to references go to unaccessible websites that clearly weren't used as research to write the article. So please do not start adding on references just to "authenticize" this article.

On another note, there are numerous still-living persons listed, some of which have never been connected to organized crime but only rumored to be connected to organized crime. Or relatives of alleged members listed simply because they are relatives of alleged members, but actually have no involvement whatsoever in a criminal lifestyle.

To sum it up, someone knowledgeable on the subject needs to really look at this article and decide what needs to be done with it. Seriously. Lock & Key (talk) 09:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

• (Called, The Four Fathers)

A vandal inserted this remark into the article under "present leaders." Lethal Weapon 4 has been on cable lately. In it are four Japanese godfathers known as "The Four Fathers." I guess the vandal thought it would be funny to insert that into the article. Quite lame. Lock & Key (talk) 09:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I reverted the following:

It has been alleged by [annoying people] John DiFronzo, James [Marllo], and Joseph [Lomdo] run The Outfit in tandem since [2045]. Lombardo was indicted April 26, 2005, absconded, but was arrested January 13, 2006 in Elmwood Park, Chicago. Outfit lieutenant Anthony Zizzo disappeared en route to a Northside, Rush Street area meeting on August 31, 2006. Zizzo, whose sport utility vehicle was found abandoned in a Division Street, Westside suburban parking lot, had been mislabeled as the Outfit's number two man or Underboss by the media. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.213.174 (talk) 01:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

References

A quick set of links on some information:

• http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0427/p03s02-usju.html
• http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10815FB3D540C778CDDAC0894DD404482
• http://www.illinoisleader.com/news/newsview.asp?c=24985
• http://www.illinoisleader.com/news/newsview.asp?c=24985

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.167.117.10 (talk • contribs)

External Links Prankster

The first link on the external links is a prank link. The first link in the "External Links" section goes to a site with completely made up bosses, members, and information. It's pretty childish thing to do. So I have removed it.

Here was the link: http://www.chicagomafia.netfirms.com

Again, I am removing it right now. --Lock & Key 19:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

This isn't at all my area of expertise, but it looks like this page was vandalized on the 18th. I removed the obvious false nicknames and replaced them with the nicknames that were present before, but I hope someone with expert knowledge will check up on this. I also apologize if I removed any legit edits along with the vandalism. TriNotch 05:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Chinatown crew

Chinatowns across the world are extremely close knit and in no circumstance has there been an outside ethnic crime group that controlled rackets in chinatowns where in every case the crime is controlled by local or foreign tied Triad groups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.166.104.26 (talk • contribs)

You might want to look into your comment. In Chicago, the Outfit has the final say, so a Chinese Triad isn't going to make waves. Take Ken Eto for example. He was the Outfit's man. The reason its called the "Chinatwon Crew" is because of is geography, most of the crew is actually on 26th Street. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.39.183 (talk) 15:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Joseph Ferriola

I recently added an article concerning Outfit boss Joseph Ferriola, but some of this information might be inaccurate, and it needs expanding. Anyone interested in doing these tasks can find the article here:

Joseph Ferriola
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Ferriola

prank members

These people:

1. Bart Sibrel, "Fat Boy"
2. Marco van Basten, "San Marco"

are both definitely not members of the outfit. The first is moonlanding hoaxer, the second a famous dutch football player and trainer.

External links

I removed the external links. They require cleanup and "thinning". I cleaned up the rest of the article and removed some of the commentary which was associated with certain people and thier current or presumed current positions in the organization. Please continue that work. Thanks, --Daysleeper47 (talk) 16:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

• American Mafia.com article
• Traditional Organized Crime in Chicago
• The New Criminologist - An Outfit Made To Last: Part One by P.J. Calder and John Guarnieri (registration required)
• List of former & current mobsters
• Outfit History by John J. Binder
• Chicago "Outfit" Organizational Chart
• Who's Who in the Chicago Outfit (1997)
• Crime Inc. - A century of Chicago mob bosses
• FEDS DETAIL 'OPERATION FAMILY SECRETS' - Prosecutors boast of 'a hit on the mob' by Todd Lighty
• With Chicago arrests, Mafia takes a hit by Amanda Paulson
• Fugitive Sought In 18 Murders Writes to Judge by Jodi Wilgoren
• MOB HIT: Wide-ranging federal indictment targets Outfit activity back to the 1960s
• When Corruption Was King - The Chicago Mob

Removals

I have removed material from this article that does not comply with our policy on the biographies of living persons. Biographical material must always be referenced from reliable sources, especially negative material. Negative material that does not comply with that must be immediately removed. Note that the removal does not imply that the information is either true or false.

Please do not reinsert this material unless you can provide reliable citations, and can ensure it is written in a neutral tone. Please review the relevant policies before editing in this regard. Editors should note that failure to follow this policy may result in the removal of editing privileges.--Doc^g 14:29, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Piped links

I have removed some serious abuse of the piped links facility. See Wikipedia:Piped link for more information on piping links. It is not intended to result in long links that clutter the article. Please think of the reader and keep links simple. Ground Zero | t 11:58, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

al capone was a Italian-American mobster

al capone was a Italian-American mobster so why dose it all say gangster when he was in the mob and the mob top boss of the chicago crime family —Preceding unsigned comment added by I love girls bums (talk • contribs) 21:49, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

What? Can you explain that again in English and maybe with a tiny bit of intelligence? ActorBoss (talk) 23:50, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

I think he means “Why does it say he’s a gangster when he was in the mob?” gang, mob. They mean the same thing. Mobster and Gangster. They’re not different. RelatedToMarioPrayer (talk) 02:12, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

this article is so wrong

Al Capone was Italian yes not a Sicilian but he was a part of the Mafia the Chicago crime family or the outfit witch is a Italian American Mafia in Chicago not a gang but a Mafia that runs and workS like any other Sicilian Mafia and has Sicilians in it and one of the most known bosses was Sicilian Tony Accardo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.243.86.54 (talk) 20:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

You have Grambling "GT All Business" Dominique Jr., as an Associate who is an enforcer. This is incorrect, this gentleman is a fraud who makes up characters and careers so that he is well respected. No African American man in their right mind would parade around telling people that he is associated with the mob if he really is associated with the mob - a code of silence still must be followed. Nutty7688 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:53, 28 July 2010 (UTC).

I removed it. Out of curiosity, why didn't you remove it?Sperril (talk) 19:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Material removed

I have removed material from this article that does not comply with our policy on the biographies of living persons. Biographical material must always be referenced from reliable sources, especially negative material. Negative material that does not comply with that must be immediately removed. Note that the removal does not imply that the information is either true or false.

Please do not reinsert this material unless you can provide reliable citations, and can ensure it is written in a neutral tone. Please review the relevant policies before editing in this regard. Editors should note that failure to follow this policy may result in the removal of editing privileges.--Scott Mac 17:21, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Title of this article

The name of this article is 'Chicago Outfit' however the name of the crime syndicate is stated in the first sentence of the article to be 'The Chicago Outfit.' Which is correct? Can someone please correct the disparity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.82.175 (talk) 09:41, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

There is no disparity. Wikipedia naming convention is to omit the definite article at the beginning of the title; see WP:THE. —Lowellian (reply) 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Film section

I think this section should be merged with, or at least reference the Mob Film article and Mafia_films — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rapsity24 (talk • contribs) 23:45, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

legitimate businesses

There doesn't seem to be any information about the legitimate businesses they have setup. Is there nothing to add for them? Govvy (talk) 00:00, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

recent large story inseted

I took down a large section that seems with much confirmation. There has been a war also - an Internet addie and Ted - I found this at Arbitration page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#BLP_issue - Do stop writing this story without resolution - Mosfetfaser (talk) 04:45, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

"The Outfit" is not a Mafia Family

“The Outfit” was historically not a Mafia family. The small Chicago Mafia family headed by Giuseppe "Joe" Aiello was more puritanical in their ways than some of the NYC families, especially that of the most liberal family headed by Charles "Lucky" Luciano who didn’t hold to what he considered to be the hidebound ways of the old “moustache Petes,” Even though he was Sicilian himself, he didn’t much care about ethnicity in choosing his business partners in crime. Although he didn’t dare to accept non-Italians as “made men,” he did accept non-Sicilian Southern Italians. The Aiello Family would not. Therefore, Colosimo, Torrio and Capone—all non-Sicilians—could not enter the Chicago Mafia family.

The organization that Capone inherited from Colosimo, via Torrio, did not have the ceremonial initiation or the formal positional titles that characterizes the Mafia and it included non-Italians, including highly placed ones such as the Jewish Jake Guzik, Capone’s de facto CFO. In time, The Outfit far outpaced the Chicago Mafia Family which eventually faded into oblivion after Aiello's murder. leaving Chicago as one of only two major U. S. cities in which organized crime was not dominated by the Mafia during the “glory days” of organized crime. (The other was Detroit where The Purple Gang was powerful.)

Another important distinction between the Mafia and Capone’s Outfit was that while the former has historically been run along the lines of a franchise enterprise, the latter was run more as a conventional business. In the Mafia, for the most part solders and associates are responsible for generating their own income via various rackets and blue collar crimes (such as robberies) and would then be obligated to kick a percentage upstairs within the organization as a sort of franchise fee. Being a member of the Mafia franchise system entitles members to certain benefits. (They might sometimes be paid a bonus for doing something special such as executing a “hit.”)

On the other hand, Capone’s organization was run as a conventional business enterprise and people within the organization were de facto employees who were paid wages and included a great many people who never handled a firearm and would never think of doing such. An example would be brewery workers during prohibition.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 23:18, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

The Chicago Outfit is an Italian-American Mafia crime family. It is not a street gang nor an independent criminal organisation. The name "Chicago Outfit" is merely a title created by the media and tabloids, and the title has simply never been addressed by the last name of a Boss like the New York Five Families, example being the Genovese crime family named after Vito Genovese. The Outfit has adopted the Italian-American Mafia rank structure. They also sit on The Commission and have since for nearly 75 years, which consists of other Italian-American crime families across the United States, the commission being the basis for order and peace within all of the crime families.ActorBoss (talk) 01:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

What I wrote was true at the time of Capone’s reign. As you point out, the organization later evolved into a more classic Mafia family. Do you know if they now have the initiation ceremony and the designation of “made men” as distinct from associates? If so, will they accept non-Italians as made men? Thank you.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 13:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Yeah the Outfit became more organised and secretive as the years went on. The Outfit started out as a small gang led by Jim Colosimo and after his murder for refusing to enter the illegal alcohol business, in my opinion Johnny Torrio organised and founded the Outfit as it's known today. Torrio also associated with important future New York five families bosses and members such as Charles Luciano, Bugsy Siegel, Meyer Lansky etc while he was in the Five Points Gang in Brooklyn so he adopted the New York ways and established it right into the Chicago Outfit. Anyway I'm getting a little carried away here, yes your father has to be Italian or you need to be of Italian heritage otherwise you'll only become an associate. The problem with the Outfit even in the younger days is that they associated and trusted the associates too much, unlike the New York families, although they also did this similar in the days when they were just gaining power but distanced themselves in the later years. Most of them in the Outfit became too powerful, got caught and turned government informant. Most of the informants of the Chicago Outfit weren't Italian related. Yeah the initiation ceremony is the same. Prick your finger, burn a symbolic religious picture in your hands etc ActorBoss (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:59, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Territories

I added some new information under the heading "territories" that talks about the locations of the several Chicago Outfit street crews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhuetson (talk • contribs) 00:53, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Try integrating this info into the history section. The section you added was completely out of place. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 23:58, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

 : Thank you for the feedback. I put the territory information under the history section. Rhuetson (talk) 15:31, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Lead Section

I added a little bit of information on the lead section about how there is only 1 mafia family in chicago, unlike the 5 families of NYC.

Prohibition Era and Capone

I added more information on the Genna brothers and Johnny Torrio. I also added some more information about the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhuetson (talk • contribs) 19:33, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

21st century

I added some more information on the cooperation of Nick Calabrese and about the Family Secrets Trial.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Battaglia2.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:21, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Should material on one person be eliminated?

Recent edits here ([1], [2], [3], [4]) have sought to remove content regarding one of the people listed in the article. It seems there are personal reasons for this [5], and it may also include WP:BLP concerns (though the article is not completely about the individual). I believe personal reasons need to overlap with policy and practice at Wikipedia if the argument to remove the content is to achieve consensus. _signed, Willondon (talk) 17:59, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

My father is the individual mentioned in the article. Unfortunately, there are inaccuracies present, as he is no longer associated with the mentioned individuals, and he was never involved with the 'Mob.' It would be greatly appreciated if we could rectify this situation by having his name removed from a Wikipedia page on Chicago mobsters. This misinformation has been distressing for me, and I would be grateful for any assistance in ensuring accurate representation on the Internet Gaborlando27 (talk) 18:56, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

father in question is Frank Orlando Gaborlando27 (talk) 18:59, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Changes are highly unlikely based on a personal connection (Wikipedia wants verifiability untainted by conflict of interest). You will more likely effect a change by relying on the policies here. The main policy covering this would be Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons (WP:BLP). Content can be challenged if it is not reliably sourced, but the sources here seem reliable. Or if the content does not reflect what the sources say. (I note that the CBS news source is about "George Brown", and only mentions Mr. Orlando's name in the context: "Several of Brown's other associates also received prison time...") You mentioned inaccuracies and misinformation. Can you be specific about what's inaccurate? I also see at WP:BLPPRIMARY that the FindLaw reference may not be suitable, as it's a primary source. Secondary sources are usually required to indicate notability and/or that primary facts have been treated with reliable analysis or commentary, and not original research.

I've made a few changes based on what I said above. When a new user joins the editing community, it's appreciated when they respect the policies and the rest of the community's efforts to apply them. Thanks for working with us. Any further input you have is appreciated. _signed, Willondon (talk) 19:30, 7 February 2024 (UTC)