Talk:Chinese Singaporeans/Archive 1

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Made by you guys the fuse in the mother board is Salterd on and is blown.how can I change this and fix it

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• The following sections required much alteration to the original text before returning to the main article.

Language

Traditionally, Chinese Singaporeans used their respective mother tongues as their main avenue of communication. Although that led to much inconvenience amongst the varying dialect groups, it has nevertheless forged strong dialectal bonds amongst the Chinese community.

But today, the languages spoken by Chinese in Singapore exhibited a diversity including English, "Singlish", Mandarin, "Sing-darin" (Singapore Mandarin), Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese, Hakka, Hainanese and other dialects. Most Chinese Singaporeans are generally bilingual, whereby they can speak both English and Mandarin or some other Chinese dialects.

Before 1980s, Chinese Singaporean were either English-educated or Chinese-educated. The English educated Chinese were educated with English as the medium of instruction and learnt little or no Mandarin in school (In such cases, the Mandarin language became an optional language). As a result, they became affianced to English-speaking and inevitable distanced from the Chinese language and their respective mother tongues. On the other hand, the Chinese-educated were educated with Mandarin as the medium of instruction but learnt little or no English. They usually speak Mandarin and their respective mother tongues with little or no English. There were of course a portion of Chinese Singaporeans who were bi-lingual, i.e. simultaneously educated with English and Mandarin as the medium of instruction, or alternatively they attended Chinese-based primary schools and subsequently transferred to English-based schools fro their secondary education.

After 1980s, all schools (including former Chinese-based schools) in Singapore began to use English as the primary medium of instruction with Mandarin as a secondary language. Thus, Chinese Singaporean educated in the post-80s are usually bi-lingual.

The language statistics of the year 2000 for Chinese Singaporeans can be found at http://www.singstat.gov.sg/papers/c2000/adr-literacy.pdf.

English is supposingly the 1st language and therefore presumably spoken by all Singapore residents. This was partly due to Singapore government's policy of making English the medium of instruction in all schools in the 1980s (including former Chinese-based schools),as well as making English the working language for administration and business in Singapore (in short making English the lingua franca among all Singaporean). The presence of English language in Singapore has its roots originating from Singapore's colonial past, whereby Singapore was part of British colony. As a result of the government's policy, English or Singlish has become widespread among the Singapore residents, including but not confining to the Chinese Singaporeans (esp. the young people). The increase of English/Singlish speaking Chinese family in Singapore was a result of misperceived social and cultural values that the preservation of mother tongues is "low-class" resulting in desperate attempts to replace mother tongues with the English language. It was estimated that 25% of Singapore Chinese speak English at home. But at work or in the city and business district, English is the official lingua franca, but there remains a notably undeniable fact, albeit ironical, that the Hokkien dialect remains extant amongst Singaporeans, not limiting to the Chinese, and operates as the unofficial common language.

Mandarin is another widely spoken language among Chinese Singaporeans. It was estimated that 45% of Chinese Singaporeans speak Mandarin at home. Evidently, Singapore government's Speak-Mandarin campaign was launched in 1980s with the intention of making Mandarin the lingua franca among the Chinese in Singapore. It was intentionally a way to unify the Chinese from different dialect groups. In the 1990s, this campaign began to target the English-speaking Chinese Singaporeans. As a result of this campaign, Mandarin became widespread in places such as residential area, HDB, neighbourhood shopping and even business districts. Evidently, Mandarin is also often spoken in most "traditional Chinese-based" schools, despite the fact that English is their medium of instruction. Colloqually, as with all other languages spoken in Singapore, the Chinese Singaporeans prefers a localized flavour in mixing words from English, Hokkien, Malay, and some other dialects, into the Mandarin language. Most young Chinese Singaporeans are capable of conversational Mandarin, but are weaker in their ability to write Mandarin.

The main languages spoken by Chinese Singaporean vary according to the age group. Most young Chinese Singaporean speak either English or Mandarin whilst the elderly, though able to converse in Mandarin, have preferred Chinese dialects such as Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew, Hakka, or Hainanese. As the south-eastern Chinese dialects are not taught in school, the number of their speakers has steadily declined, and with it saw the deterioration of Chinese cultures and values. In addition, many parents have begun to communicate with their children solely in English, in the belief that the language is essential to attain upward social mobility. Many of the young Chinese in Singapore are unable to use their mother tongues fluently - most can utter no more than a few words. However, a few years into the work force, be it white-collar or blue-collar, most would pick up the Hokkien dialect. This applies equally even to the more westernized Chinese Christian community, who prefers the English language over any other. This (the Hokkien dialect) apparently seems to be the only struggling force against the loss of Chinese cultural heritage.

The question of which language is preferred in Singapore seem to have caused a series of debate among the Chinese Singaporeans recently. The question of declining standards in the command of the Chinese language amongst Chinese Singaporeans seems to cause several revision in the government's education package towards the Chinese language. The Singapore government's continued policy towards bilingualism for all Chinese Singaporean, which is to continue to pursue English as the first language while making Mandarin the lingua franca (or at least the 2nd language or home language) amongst all Chinese has drawn mixed reponses. The more English-speaking Chinese Singaporeans will generally prefer English language as the lingua franca or their home language, while the Mandarin-speakers worries that English will replace Mandarin as the lingua franca, thus eliminating the thin thread of Chinese identity altogether, saw English as a strong competition. With the rising economy of China, which has led to more Singapore companies requiring fluency in Mandarin, Mandarin has been viewed with greater importance amongst the Singaporean Chinese than before. Both English and Mandarin will continue to dominate the language scene among Chinese Singaporeans.

There also exists a strong urge and need in preserving the dialect cultures in Singapore. The decline of the Chinese indigenous religion, Taoism, has also indirectly contributed to the deterioration of Chinese cultural heritage. Unless the government and Chinese Singaporeans take their own initiative in preserving dialect cultures, Chinese dialects may probably decline or even disappear from Singapore in the near future. There is thus a strong need to restore the Chinese identity or risk it falling into extinction one day. This exigency is translated into recent renewed efforts by clan associations in Singapore to impart and revive their respective Chinese mother tongues, which are met with warm receptions, including the younger generations. Therefore, there lies a greater challenge for the Chinese community in Singapore - the preservation of the Chinese identity - than just the satisfaction of linguistic domination and material gains.

Chen LongFa 14:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Already make the changes..it's well-written (Yhjow (talk) 19:45, 12 February 2011 (UTC))

Archive

Facts Right?

"They stand out from the singaporean born chinese and are heavily criticised." - I've removed this statement as it violates NPOV. There seems to be discrimination of local-born Singaporean Chinese against recent migrants from China and such statement reflects a biased attitude. (Yhjow (talk) 14:45, 29 December 2009 (UTC))

The current record shows a vast improvement from the original setting that invited much dispute, After this much amendments and corrections, are we ready to have the NPOV tag removed for this topic?

Chen LongFa 06:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I have edited the article to remove the use of 'class' or any form of biasedness in language.

I think some parts of this articles are not really NPOV, or even factually accurate, I quote a part of the text from the section headered "Language"

The usage of English is also common in the working society, and all students are required to master English as their master subject and speak only Mandarin in class. Singlish is also commonly used among the Lower-class Chinese notably among the contractors and blue-collar job workers. English is the first language among most Christians, as they attend church services in the English language.

Seems quite stereotyped and/or biased to me. I think this page beeds cleanup.

• Additional note, there are alot of factual inaccuracies. I mean alot. It's definitely biased and some secions I am totally unable to manage..

-- fiveless 14:47, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)

• I Agree that it's not that NPOV. For example: "An extremely small minority follow either Islam or Hinduism." [1] --*drew 15:59, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • "speak only Mandarin in class", much of fiction I supposed. Not at all. 203.78.9.149 09:03, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Not entirely right at all, though for some classes it appeared a norm (and perhaps one will associate that with classes of lower calibre, no offence though). Look at the situation entirely and analyse from a neutral point of view, most classes do purports the use of English, I for one speaks only English in class, and understands Chinese, and with Chinese students in class. Slivester 13:51, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
      • Also, there are great generalizations made, for example, the one on Shanghainese, "who insist upon speaking their own dialect whenever there are more than one of them, even though what they are talking about may concern others nearby who will not be able to understand them."

There are also gramatical and spelling problems.This article has to be editted.
User:@@ron 21:11, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree, the quote "all students are required to master English as their master subject and speak only Mandarin in class" seems quite wrong. This doesn't match the experience of my native Singaporean spouse. Classes are taught in English. Students aren't required to speak only Mandarin in class, they are required to speak English. If the author got this simple fact wrong, one wonders about the rest. Amatulic 02:23, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I can't find that quote anywhere on this page. In any case, the original author probably meant either what you said, or that students are required to speak Mandarin in Mandarin class. -- Миборовский ^{U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai!} 02:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Hokchew & Foochow

Isn't Hokchew same as Foochow? Yet they are listed as two items. A-giau 11:52, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes it is Maycontainpeanuts 08:23, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Disputes

I feel that something has gone wrong with Singaporean Chinese (presumably they are the ones who have created this entry) if so many people have, on the history page, claimed to have checked for spelling errors and yet we have "uneral ceromony" instead of "funeral ceremony" and "coloborium" instead of "columbarium". Moreover, it speaks volumes of Singaporeans' command of the language when they say that monks reside over prayers and not preside over prayers. Not to mention their use of the obnoxious and disagreeable phrase "ashy remains [of the deceased]" instead of the more sensitive and easier-to-type "ashes". Lastly, when you say "dominate most of the economy" the 'most of' is redundant, since 'dominate' already has the connotation of 'most of'.

• I'm going to correct the grammar on the page, but the facts will have to be verified and the content made NPOV. Frankly speaking, I find this article a disgrace to Singaporean Chinese. P 13:31, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
• Also, does anyone else think it necessary to distinguish between third/fourth-generation Chinese in Singapore (the current generation of youths) and other Chinese in Singapore, such as Chinese PRs, study mamas and Chinese students studying in Singapore, as their culture, language and loyalties differ significantly from the Singaporean Chinese? P 13:38, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Also could someone please provide a more politically correct and historically sensitive account of the race riots in May 1964 towards the end of the article?Maycontainpeanuts 08:23, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Firstly, I'm also a Singaporean Chinese. I agree that the article had (and still has) many grammatical mistakes. I have modified the May 1964 race riots to make them more politically correct and accurate, correcting the grammar at the same time. Feel free to correct it further if you feel that it is not up to standard. Oh, and the person who mentioned, "Moreover, it speaks volumes of Singaporeans' command of the language..." (I'm not sure if it's P), please keep your racist stereotyping where they belong. Not on a discussion page, where the main motive is to perfect the article. Thanks. -ccjx

I've corrected several grammatical errors, capitlized many of the "english", "chinese" etc. Rephrased sentences that seemed odd. By the way, "Chinese Singaporean" or "Singaporean Chinese", I've standardized on Chinese Singaporeans on my edit -Norman

Some of the 'Singlish' phrasings may be deliberate vandalism from anonymous IPs. Just fix as required (or revert).--Eqdoktor 08:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Maycontainpeanuts- Perhaps you'd like to take a look at some of the entries on chinese articles that are direct translations of the original chinese article itself. English is not everyone's native mother tongue, I don't see any need to stereotype or single out chinese singaporeans. Mineowyn (talk) 05:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

This article is horrendous! I just spent the better part of an hour correcting some of the grammar and very awkward expressions when I should be studying for exams, and there are still heaps more to do! Good luck to whoever is next in trying to clean it up!117.102.135.192 (talk) 16:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Suggested Additions

I believe this article should explain the distinct yet not so distant cultural flavor of Singapore Chinese. This article should provide in addition to the "old topics", a fresh metropolitian view of Singaporean Chinese. For one, Singaporeans grow up in urban centers and most of the new generations have never experienced rural life.

The article should therefore describe how we as Singaporeans fuse the eastern and westerns way of life instead of differentiating "Westernized Upper class" with the "Middle and Lower classes".

Celebrated Festivals

Chinese Lunar New Year

  - Red Packets
  - Raw Fish (Lucky Fish)
  - Dragons and Lion Dances
  - Ban on Firecrackers

Mid-Autumn and Mooncake Festival

  - the trend towards upmarket mooncakes
  - Lantern Festival @ Chinese Garden
  - Moon cake festivals in Universities

Hungry Ghost Festival

  - Rituals and Joss Paper Burning 
      - Differences in scale and importance with Hong Kong
  - The 7th Month Auctions
  - The 7th Month Song Stage 

Alternative Religions

4D and Toto

Do elaborate? Slivester 12:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Celebrated Dieties

God Of Fortune

  - A patron deity in many Chinese Owned Business
       - Shopping Complex
       - Shop Houses
       - SMEs
  - The Rubbed off Statue of "Cai Sheng" in Waterloo Street

Confucius

  - The Examination Rush

Guan Yin

  - The famous Guan Yin Temple in Waterloo Street
  - The Thousand Hand Guan Yin Statue in Bright Hill Temple

World Famous Singapore Chinese Crusine

Seafood

  - Seafood Restaurants in East Coast & at Marina Bay

Fried Kuay Teow

  - Cockles
  - Tiramisu (Upcoming TV Series)

Laksa

Satay

Others

If there are sufficient responses, I will add more. -DK 18 October 2005

i am 'chinese' singaporean and i think that it is a fair article. language in singapore largely follows class divisions at least for ethnic chinese singaporeans. however, there are significant numbers of chinese speaking christians.

it's also a fair comment that a pidgin form of mandarin, one which incorporates many hokkien, malay and english words, is the lingua franca for the majority of chinese singaporeans.

however, i think to describe the speech of many middle class and upper-middle class singaporeans as acrolectal is inaccurate. many speak singlish, but increasing american influence especially amongst the younger generation has led to the use of many Americanisms, which is generally perceived as less than formal, and hence not acrolectal. it's also interesting to note that even amongst upper and uppermiddle class young singaporeans, singlish is not uncommon. hokkien words like 'chio' and 'wah lao' often find their way into daily usage, though usually it carries novelty value.

i think its worth pointing out the racial classification system in singapore, which attempts to slot people into CMIO, based on the father's determined ethnicity. a person of mixed parentage, eg. chinese-indian is classified according to the father's race.

I think even in the upper/middle class, although people may start up with formal english, like when they first meet, as they become closer to one another and their relationships become more informal, a lot of them start to communicate in Singalish or even Mandarine.

Religion: Deleted content and suggestion for merge

I've just made some major edits to the Christianity and Other sections. I've deleted the following unsourced statements:

"If a Chinese Man marries a Malay, the children will still follow the surname/language/culture/race of the Chinese father." - needs much more detail and sourcing to be a meaningful statement. As a one-sentence statment it is a vast oversimplification.

"viewed as unorthodox by many Christians" - not relevant to this article. Defamatory statements really need to be attributed to specific makers of those statements, not something as vague as "many Christians."

"Other denominations such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Unification Church are being banned by the government as deviationist cults." - not relevant to this article. It would be relevant to Religion in Singapore if reworded to attribute the "deviationist cult" label to a statement by a specific person or by the government.

"Christians are known for their taboos towards other religions among non-Christians. Catholic taboos are more accentuated towards human rights, notably abortion and IVF. Protestants, on the other hand, holds taboos against other religions, notably ancestor worship, worship in all Chinese temples, be it ancestral, Confucian, Buddhist and Taoist. Such practices are deemed as Pagan among Protestants. Catholicism, on the other hand, only prohibited worship of Taoist deities and Buddhism." - Oversimplification and POV stereotyping. This is supposed to be an article on an ethnic group, not an essay on religion.

"Fundamentalist Charismatic and Baptist denominations made use of such opportunities to proselytize the wealthier Chinese during the 80's and early 90's." - This kind of statement is inflammatory and borders on being unverifiable. If it is to be included it needs sourcing and discussion of opposing points of view. It's also much more relevant to Religion in Singapore or Christianity in Singapore than here.

"Some Catholics own home altars like the Taoists and Buddhists. Symbols such as a crucifix, a statue of the Virgin Mary or various other saints are placed on the altar. In addition, candles and incense are sometimes used. Eucharistic objects like the Thurible and Chalice are only seen in church altars. Home altars are not seen among Protestant families." - Maybe this kind of thing belongs in an article about Christianity, but is way off topic for this article.

In general, I think all the sections on religion are very long for an article on an ethnic group. It would make sense to include descriptions of religious beliefs and practices here if they are unique to the Chinese in Singapore. Would it make sense to move most of the religion content to the articles about religion in Singapore? Or just delete it from this article if it is better covered elsewhere.

The sections on Buddhism and Taoism also need attention. They are full of inappropriate commentary such as speculation on why people convert. Su-Laine Yeo 03:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Hainanese and Northern Min

5 comments on this section:

1. The dialects of Hockchew and Hockchia do not belong to Northern Min, but Eastern Min (闽东方言）. Hockchew is the prestige dialect of Eastern Min while Hockchia can be considered its sub-dialect.

2. Hainanese falls under the Southern Min sub-family, and it will be misleading for readers without knowledge about Chinese languages to see Hainanese being placed together with Northern Min (which in fact should be Eastern Min).

3. There are not many migrants of Northern Min origin in Singapore, therefore their dialects are almost non-existent in Singapore.

4. The dialect of Henghua is neither Northern Min nor Eastern Min, but falls under the Puxian dialects of the Putian region situated at the central part of Fujian province.

5. There are also no sizable community of Chinese Singaporeans that originates from Zhejiang province in China.

Darrenfang 14:53, December 18, 2006

Where are the references for this section? 121.79.19.4 (talk) 00:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Where are cited sources?

This article is really sloppy, where are the supporting citations? please let's dig up some supporting material - much of what is written is correct, but we still need to be able to verify all the 'facts' that are in this article. 121.79.19.4 (talk) 04:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

This is a really crap article, it should be deleted, or failing that, some sources would be nice! 130.56.32.2 (talk) 05:28, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Good article especially on Singaporean Chinese religion.

It is updated and true to the fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.68.114 (talk) 06:44, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

RfC on User:Cenwin88lee's conduct

Hello,

An RfC has been initiated to discuss Cenwin88lee's recent conduct. I invite all interested editors to come give their input at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Cenwin88lee. Thanks! --ಠ_ಠ node.ue ಠ_ಠ (talk) 16:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Demographics

A lot of Singaporean PR are actually Malaysian Chinese. They are counted twice as both Malaysian Chinese and Singaporean Chinese.

I suggest that the statistics to count only Singaporean Chinese and not Singaporean PR or else the bloated numbers are doubly counted.

Of this total resident of 2.8 million, about 0.3 million are PR from Malaysia and China. So the total Singaporean Chinese should just be around 2.5 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bkjalng (talk • contribs) 06:11, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

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Definition of 华人

If the main point of the sentence is based on identification with the meaning of 'people of Chinese descent', it should be referred to as 华裔. '华人' includes '华侨' as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gandalfett (talk • contribs) 14:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

• Hi. 华人, means ethnically Chinese, which also can mean a person of Chinese descent. No Chinese Singaporean in Singapore refer to themselves as 华裔, but as 华人. The main purpose of the sentence is to highlight the term Chinese Singaporeans use to distinguish themselves. In this case 华人 is universally used. As for 华侨 is mainly used in the media to describe people of Chinese descent of other nationalities (not from China or Singapore), e.g. Chinese Indonesian (印尼华侨). --Deoma12^(Talk) 05:27, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
• Agreed with Deoma12. Also Singaporean Chinese is more commonly known as 新加坡华人, even in China-based mediums and Chinese mediums in Singapore. robertsky (talk) 07:06, 12 May 2020 (UTC)