Talk:Ching chong/Archive 1

Archive 1

Chinaman

In terms of the rhyme, Chinaman is not a slur, as it was the word used for Chinese people at the time, like Frenchman was used to indicate a peson from France. This notes the use of "man" as a general term for person, ignoring the existence of women. "Chinaman" is currently an ethnic slur, but that does not mean that because it occurs it is a slur. It's like Negro, in that its offensiveness later developed from a previously purely descriptive term.

When I was a child, my grandfather (born late 1800s) told me the rhyme, and it actualy rhymes compared to what we find on the page:

Ching-chong Chinaman Sitting on a rail Along came a white man And chopped off his tail

Note 1) this actually rhymes, and 2) "tail" refers to the long braid worn by chinese men in earlier times.

Perhaps, if found worthy, this will find its way into the article.

Just because the offensiveness of a term developed over time does not discount it being a slur. "Negro" and "chinaman" both could be considered slurs at this point, as they are derisive nicknames for an ethnic group. However, by the same reasoning, "ching chong" would be difficult to call a slur at this point. It is very rarely used as a noun nowadays, but rather just to imitate speech patterns. I really question whether "ching chong" is still a slur.

-- Actually "ching chong" is very commonly used to ridicule almost all East Asian peoples "nowadays." It is currently especially common in urban areas. Since ching chong is not an actual speech pattern and is NOT an imitation of Chinese speech (as any Chinese person, like me, would know), it is actually a slur. -Sabrina

You're being so blatantly dishonest, I'm actually amused by it. Did you even read the article? --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 07:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Dutchman, Englishman, Chinaman, Frenchman JayKeaton 21:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page was vandalised by some people, I edited and deleted most parts. Look out for it.
DeadAlmighty 02:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Rose O'Donnell

Added a sentence referencing the Rosie O'Donnell joke on The View, and included an external link to the YouTube video. Someone added the link to Racialicious -- while Racialicious is a good blog documenting race issues in the media, I don't believe blogs qualify as valid sources on Wikipedia.

Ching Chong is actually more like "Son of the bitch". It's like the single mother's kids never be recognized as a family member.

It's a very harsh word. You can call people 'Ching Chong' because he/she either can't carry his/her father's last name or his/her mother is a 'cheater'

Ching Chong isn't a word. It means nothing in chinese. I would know, as I speak that language.

I agree, "Ching Chong" is meaningless; that's why I find it so offensive. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.139.124 (talk) 03:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Noncompliant

If a Chinese national approaches white North American and says, "A-E-I-O-U" is this mockery of the English language an ethnic slur? It isn't. In fact, to claim that "ching chong" is a racial slur is equally racist in itself because it presumes that anyone that speaks Chinese is from China. That's like claiming anyone that speaks English is white with Anglo-European ancestry. Unless someone can explain how this isn't a mass vanity article, then it is and should be removed per WP:COI --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The Chinese sometimes mock Westerners by mimicking an English speaker attempting to speak Chinese. This involves, among other things, pronouncing every Chinese word in the fourth tone. Bubbha (talk) 17:12, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

If you think ching chong is not a racial slur, then go up to an Asian and say that to his or her face. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.224.41.159 (talk) 09:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention the fact that "ching chong" is used as an adjective, non a noun to describe a person or people. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

• Oh, and by the same logic "wee wee wee, haw haw haw" is a racial slur for the French. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
• "boot, oot, ooo, eh" is a racial slur for Canadians. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
• "blot, rot, tot" is a slur for the Cockney of London. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
• "el, -o" is a racial slur for Spanish speakers (the logic of this article presumes they are Hispanic). --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
• "Bork, bork, bork" is a slur for Swedes. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

...not to mention the millions of combinations of Cantonese syllables that could be combined to form a similar "racial slur." --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 08:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm curious, how is "ching chong" analogous to "A-E-I-O-U"? Moreover, how does the claim that "ching chong" is a racial/ethnic (not nationalistic) slur presume that "anyone who speaks Chinese is from China"? schi ^talk 06:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The article claims (without a proper reference I might ad) that "ching chong" mocks the speech patterns of a Chinese national speaking Cantonese.

• A-E-I-O-U are English vowel sounds and would therefore 'mock' the English language in the same way that "ching chong" would Cantonese. The point of the example is ridicule; "ching chong" is no more racist (not racist at all) than "A-E-I-O-U" or whatever speech pattern one wants to mock.
• Not everyone that speaks Chinese is a Chinese national. That's about as ignorant as saying English speakers are all white. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 06:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the bits from the article that claimed "nationality". I don't think the use of the term has anything to do with nationality. I'm trying to find some good cites for this, as much of the article is without references. That does not, however, make it a "mass vanity article".

Your "logic" is funny, but is wholly ignorant of context. "A-E-I-O-U" would in no way mock an English speaker - for one thing, because these are actual letters of the English alphabet. In Chinese, "ching chong" is utter nonsense - it's pure ridicule. Obviously, and as with any racial slur, racism comes into play through the context and history of the term's use, not the so-called "logic" that may motivate it. schi ^talk 07:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice try, but I provided six examples and you're taking issue with, count them, one. Instead of "A-E-I-O-U" which is already perfectly acceptable because they are common syllable sounds, let's make the example "the-and-like." You're probably going to side-step that example too claiming that those are actual words - once again missing the point entirely: "Ching chong" is mocking the speech pattern, it doesn't matter if they happen to be actual words or not. In a globalized world, mocking a speech pattern is not racist. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 08:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• In Chinese, "ching chong" is utter nonsense - it's pure ridicule.

To an English speaker, "aeiou!" (ay-ee-aye-oh-you) wouldn't be utter nonsense and pure ridicule? It would be (of the languange), but it wouldn't be racist. Thank you for agreeing with me. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 08:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

How do you define a "speech pattern" such that "ching chong" could possibly be construed as that of Chinese (Cantonese or Mandarin), and also such that the same definition would apply to your other examples? Thanks for agreeing with me that A-E-I-O-U and "the-and-like" are both actual features of the English language; not only is "ching chong" not a feature of Chinese language(s), it is simply wholly-fabricated, yellowface-caricature-based mocking. "Ching chong" has no "real" relationship to the Chinese language. The slur is not about mocking the speech patterns, so your six examples are rendered utterly moot. Further, none of your examples come burdened with the same (or similar) historic context that "ching chong" has - like other racial slurs, as I mentioned above. Nice try, but next time consider thinking about the actual issue, which is context. "In a globalized world", there is still such thing as history. schi ^talk 23:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm waiting for the moment in which you realize you aren't making any sense; you currently aren't even agreeing with the article. Your argument is based on "ching" and "chong" not being part of Chinese in any way. This simply isn't true in itself, and by virtue of the definition of "mockery," a derisive, imitative action or speech. How can "ching chong" be a mockery of Chinese yet not related to it either? You can't have it both ways. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 01:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm also still waiting for you to address the issue, which is context. Of course I disagree with the article; I thought that was clear. The slur is indeed mocking - which is derisive, and imitative - that is, a mimicry, a counterfeit example. Also note that mocking != "exact recreation"; and derisive means "the use of ridicule or scorn to show contempt". I didn't say it is not related, I said it is not about mocking the "speech patterns" (which you fail to explain) and has no "real" relationship - that is, if you listen to someone speaking Chinese, the sounds they are making don't sound like "ching chong", etc. There is a relationship, but it is indirect (yellowface-caricature, etc.) schi ^talk 23:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

What is "ching chong" mocking then? You're saying it isn't the Chinese language, and I'm saying that it isn't Chinese nationals. If it's neither, then this article has no reason to exist. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 08:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I know enough about linguistics to know that non-speakers of Chinese do not hear the same sounds as native/fluent speakers. If you grew up with the language, you won't be able to understand said differences because you are able to perceive them without thought. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 08:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

You continue to fail to grasp key distinctions. Obviously, the term is mocking, but that doesn't mean that it in anyway remotely accurately recreates the phonemes in Chinese languages. Your second comment is irrelevant. I do not speak a lot of languages, but can still distinguish phonetic differences in such languages. What's your point? schi ^talk 01:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The origin of the phrase is not known with certainty. However, since syllables sounding like what an English speaker would pronounce as "ching" or "chong" are relatively common in Cantonese, the expression is likely an attempt to mock Chinese speech patterns. So reference.com is making this up? If they aren't, then I once again assert that mocking a speech pattern is not racist. If they are making this up, I suggest you take it up with them. [1] --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 03:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, the term is mocking, but that doesn't mean that it in anyway remotely accurately recreates the phonemes in Chinese languages. Even though reference.com doesn't seem to agree with you, I'll further the argument by saying that the mockery need not "accurately recreate the phonems in Chinese languages." You're implied premise is that said mockery is racist because it doesn't accurately mock the language. Come on. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 03:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I do not speak a lot of languages, but can still distinguish phonetic differences in such languages. That's easy for you to say. There are at least two ways to say "Chee" (as it sounds to the English ear). If not exposed these differences at a very early age, they become nearly imperceptable. These articles touch on what I'm talking about: [2] [3] --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 03:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

What then Ivy League, what then? The article as it stands now completely shuts down your argument. What then Dartmouth, what then? --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 10:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Uh, wow. I never said I support the current (or any past) version of the article, and I've made that clear above. Also, my premise is not that the mockery is racist because it doesn't accurately "mock" the language. Nice try.

Check out WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL (which I'll admit I may have been goaded into violating myself here). I don't think I can work with you, Haizum, in a civil manner on this article, so I'm taking it off my watchlist, and I regret that I tried to engage you in a discussion. schi ^talk 01:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Suit yourself. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 01:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

On an already established wikipedia article: "A slur can be anything from an insinuation or critical remark to an insult. The following is a list of ethnic slurs that are, or have been, used as insinuations or allegations about members of a given ethnicity or to refer to them in a derogatory (critical or disrespectful), pejorative (disapproving or contemptuous), or downright insulting manner in the English-speaking world." This is from wikipedia. It is already established. Ching Chong is all of the above, insinuation, critical remark and an insult to the ENGLISH SPEAKING WORLD. This means that whether English speakers are "understandable" or not for butchering a language for an insult, that those terms still apply as derogatory under disrespectful, especially if it is historically so. Anyone can say that they as a person cannot tell the difference between ching chong and real chinese, that doesn't make this term any more respectful. And if it is commonly used for long periods of time in a derogatory manner, there is no justifiable reason you can have to say that it is not a slur. There are published stories of people being mocked by the term as already posted in the ching chong article and obviously offensive songs that use this in lyrics. What more is necessary to make this compliant? --Sabrina165.106.111.192 01:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Read. This is my suggestion: read. I never claimed that this wasn't a slur. I'm saying it isn't an ethnic slur. Not everyone that speaks Chinese (any form) is a Chinese national. Get a grip; I just about removed your comment because it's so incoherent it could be mistaken for vandalism. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 10:57, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

BTW, try and cite Wikipedia in any academic setting and you will get laughed out of the room. If it's a graded assignment, expect to receive a failing grade. Everyone knows Wikipedia is garbage. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 10:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

In Mandarin alone, there are more than 27 different characters (or words) that are pronounced as qing/ching. These include: 清, 请, 庆, 情, 青, 轻, 晴, 卿, 倾, 氢, 擎, 氰, 箐, 顷, 磬, 罄, 苘, 鲭, 蜻, 亲, 勍, 圊, 庼, 檠, 綮, 謦, and 黥. Additionally, non-native speakers do not understand that tonal languages, as many East Asian languages are, generally have fewer sounds but differentiate these based on tones. Stop trying to suppress the facts. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 00:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, if it's not a racial slur, why no one would say it to anyone who's NOT Asian?

Fallacy. It just so "happens" that Asians speak the language(s) that "ching/chong" is supposed to mock. A language is not a race. Your point just dissolved into nothing. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 07:52, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

"Fallacy" is correct, and unfortunately, your point just dissolved into nothing. That's the whole issue here, that "ching chong" (which has been established here as an ignorant [read: linguistically incorrect] mockery of the perceived sounds of the Chinese language by non-Chinese-speaking people, can we agree?) is (but especially has been, in the past; the problem is based on the history, which does clearly involve racism, not the technical reality of the "words" themselves without context) used by English speakers against an ethnic group - that being Asian, regardless of whether or not the person it's being used against is Chinese, which is, of course, one of the problems with using it. "Ching chong" in itself may be a mockery of a language, which knows no racial boundaries, but I repeat, it is and has been used specifically against a perceived racial group (not against "speakers of Chinese regardless of race;" as someone else mentioned, there is no doubt that this term fits the definition of a racial/ethnic slur), a trend which is based on a history of racism (including violence) against Asians - it is inexorably linked to racism. This "fallacy" you point out does not prove the nonexistence of the racist nature of this term; it simply proves the ignorance of those who created and use it.--Alltalltilae 07:31, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

For any racial slurs, if taken by face value, are NOT offensive. For example, the word "Negro" is just a Latin word for the color black, and colors are neutral words that's not meant to be offensive. However, due to historical misuse, it is now an offensive and racist term. Same thing for ching-chong. It's meaningless by itself, but due to its historical misuse, it is now an offensive term.

You killed your own argument. Negro and similar terms are referring to the physical qualities of a specific race of people. "Ching/chong" is mocking a language, which does not belong to any particular race -- unless of course you want to say that only Chinese nationals speak mandarin, which isn't true at all. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 07:52, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

If I had a dollar for everytime a tourist said to me "Oi dingos gawt yaw baybee, gidday mayte" and all that "Australian" crap. I take offense to that, it is an ethnic slur. Australia has evolved on it's own long enough to be our own ethnicity, so everytime someone impersonates the "Australian" accent, I should take it as an extremely offensive ethnic slur, right? "Puwda naytha shrimp on tha baaaaaaaaaarbeee JayKeaton 10:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC

You speak English, it doesn't matter what the accent is - you still speak English with English phonemes. Since when is English indicative of one ethnic group? It isn't. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 08:38, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

This is incredibly frustrating and an example of the kind of ignorance that keeps people using this incredibly offensive term. Can you not grasp that this goes beyond mocking the Chinese language and has developed through historical context into a slur? Any racial slur is offensive not necessarily because of its denotative meaning, but because of the connotation that it involves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.128.37 (talk • contribs)

Logic does not agree with you. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Ching Chong is offensive because people who want to mock an Asian say "Ching Chong". The fact is that they aren't saying "Ching Chong" to you out of politeness but rather out of mockery. When someone says "gidday mayte", they are actually trying to speak with an Australian accent. "Hey do I sound Australian?". When someone says "ching chong", they aren't even trying to be comprehensible. "Adios amigo", "Oui oui monseur". Hey at least those are real phrases used by real people. "Ching Chong" is utter mockery. Is this getting into your skull yet? 03:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.139.124 (talk)

Your line of argumentation has already been defeated on this talk page. I suggest you actually read this talk page before commenting with futility. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 23:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Haizum is obviously an idiot. He should get out of the internet until he learns how not to be a complete dumbass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.26.133 (talk) 17:51, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Orignial Research

There need to be reputable references for any statement with {{Fact}} per WP:NOR. This is not optional. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 14:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. It seems there is far too much original research. Many Chinese are not offended by this. --Proficient 21:31, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Your premise: If a group of people is offended, rules regarding orginial research do not apply. Try again. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 07:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

What about...

Ching chong china balls Hanging from the water falls?

I have heard that numerous times or something like it. Wikipediarules2221 22:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

What it means

The phonetic translation of Ching-chong means "Clean a Theater" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.206.122.30 (talk) 12:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

It means nothing. It's not Chinese. It's a mimic of Chinese, got it? It's just like "Ala ala haba ala" doesn't mean anything in Arabic. --Mongol 16:17, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Exactly; "ala ala haba ala" is not an ethnic slur, it's mocking the phonemes of a language. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 10:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you meet an Arabic person, and say "Oh, Ali, I want to tell you, ala ala haba ala", will he think it's insulting? Maybe, maybe not. So, I think the word "Ching-chong", if it is a word, is not a slur. But to mimic someone's language in a stupid way is a bad decision, unless you are acting on SNL. Personally, if someone says Ching-Chong to me, I would just think he is stupid; if he uses the word Chinaman, I would politely explain to him that it's now considered as a slur; if he uses the word Chink, I would kick his butt, or sue him if he has more muscle. --Mongol 23:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Ching Chong

Did it really represent an ethnic slur? It seems only serve as the mimic of Bell Ringing,like Ping Pong？It wont infuriate any chinese.--Ksyrie 18:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

You can annoy a Chinese by saying "Ching Chong Ching Chong" to him/her. --Mongol 21:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You're an idiot. Of course it will offend them. What if someone called you an Australian from "Down under" when you in fact were Russian or some other race, but people called you Australian because they were generalizing. Also, please note that some of their language contains the word "ching" or "Chong" and when mixed together, you could think of it like they were making fun of the language and assuming they knew how to speak it and therefore bragging about it. It could also be a racial slur like stated here. you could be calling your chinese friend Bob "ching chong" as a nickname or "Hey Ching chong, come over here!" and not by his real name. Then your other friend Jamie (also chinese) and you "conveniently" came up with the same derogatory and generalistic name for him! Punkymonkey987 (talk) 03:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't call other people idiots if you consider 'Russian' or 'Australian' as a "race"..97.115.167.196 (talk) 03:43, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Shaquille O'Neal's remarks are mentioned twice in the "Contemporary Usage" section, someone with more user privileges please fix it.--94.99.117.138 (talk) 13:49, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't feel offended, I just feel it's funny and stupid. It's easy to create , "kkdk kkwke sdfkaskk wekkkf;; dtdadkkkkaksdfk;;;asdasdkkas asdfaksfkk keeoq'foo " there you go , it's English, hahaha

I'm removing all unsourced material

There is no doubt that this is a serious insult, and has been used that way, but it seems clear that the phrase is more often used to represent unfamiliar phonetic speech patterns than against an ethnicity as the lead implies. Therefore, I am questioning all of the unsourced material in this article in accordance with the fundamental policy WP:V, and removing it as challenged. The burden rests with those wishing to replace the material to show that it can be verified by reliable sources. ←Ben^B4 04:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I have also removed the factual dispute, original research, and missing references tags as I believe my deletions have addressed all of those problems. Note that there are many references to various primary source media inline and many URL links, too.

I was particularly suspicious of this passage which I also removed:

In a 2002 Pew Research Center poll, 96% of white Americans claimed to have used the phrase in a "playful manner", and 94% had never previously considered the phrase to be an ethnic slur. However, 34% of Asian Americans believed it to be racist language.[4]

Note that a search for "ching chong" on the Pew cite fails, and there is no record of such a poll anywhere else in Google apart from Wikipedia pages. Also, the numbers don't add up at all. ←Ben^B4 05:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

An Australian Variation

"Ching Chong China Va-Va-Va-Vagina" is what I used to get teased with when I was a kid in the 80's. Any "Aussies" heard of this variation? 121.218.100.154 (talk) 14:24, 21 January 2008 (UTC) Insert non-formatted text here

Origins

The systematics of the Wade-Giles transliteration of the Chinese language is partly responsible for the origins of "Ching Chong."

See template:pinyin box and also check Chinese phonology to see why actual spoken Chinese does not have many "ch" sounds, but in fact romanized Chinese often reads like it has lots of "ch" in it. CoolSword2 (talk) 20:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Joke/Song examples under Historical Usage

To the IP-only editor that keeps reinserting the joke/song examples, please note that although you finally added a footnote to *part* of the material, that Angelfire webpage is not a reliable source (WP:RS). Furthermore, what was written here ("a common ethnic joke") is in contrast to the context of the source (here's what *one* kid said to me), and the rest of it constitutes original research (WP:OR). For further edification, please look at the song examples that are referenced and cited, and compare the differences. Thanks. dfg (talk) 14:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Ching Chong Chow...

Isn't it sometimes that way as well? There was a 1940's newspaper cartoon called Ching Chow which dispensed fortune cookie-type wisdom. 169.226.84.184 (talk) 22:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Censorship tag

What is the justification for the "This topic may attract censorship" tag at the top of this talk page? What censorship has been attempted? Mike R (talk) 16:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Great Wall in Chinese

sounds like ching chong 199.117.69.8 (talk) 19:26, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Chinese Linguistics section

There are several errors (although I'm hesitant to call them such) in the Chinese Linguistics section. I say I'm hesitant, because the sounds of Mandarin Chinese are being approximated with English sounds, and anything can happen in an approximation. However, I feel that the section's use of the phrase "sounds like" may mislead readers into thinking that the approximations presented in the section are close approximations, which they are not. From this perspective, there are several problems with the information presented in this section:

• The sound <zh> is presented as an approximation of <ds> in English, when in fact <ds> approximates <z> much more closely. This is problematic because <ts> is used to approximate <c>, which is a counterpart to <z> but not to <zh>.
• The alveolar-retroflex distinction is being represented as a distinction in "heaviness". Not only is this seriously misleading, but much better approximations could be found, such as the English alveolar-postalveolar distinction. (I.e., instead of representing the <c>-<ch> distinction as <ts>-<tz>, why not do it as <ts>-<tsh>?)

Someone who is a monolingual in English but knows a bit about Chinese should look into this. Xinophiliac (talk) 04:22, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Ching Chong Chow Mein

A local chinese restaurant here has an item called ching chong chow mein and ching chong lo mein. It is like a deluxe or house mein dish. The owners are chinese people. I don't think this is a racist or derogatory term. It seems more like the PC bunch gone out of control, once again. --98.236.11.20 (talk) 19:46, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Marketing gimmick? Slur reclaiming? 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:46, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Viet-nam

In the Vietnamese language i've encountered several terms that sound like Ching-Chong. Only the writing is different Trong or Tring as well as Chong. But the idea is the same.--82.134.154.25 (talk) 20:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Chinese Linguistics

The Chinese_linguistics section needs more references or will be removed as original research. Most of the analysis of the Chinese language itself is unreferenced, not to mention its implied advancement of a position that there is justification with associating rhymes with "ch" such as "ching chong" with Chinese. Bagumba (talk) 18:40, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Section removed as original research that has been flagged and unaddressed for 2 months (Wikipedia:Handling_original_research#Removal_of_information). Bagumba (talk) 18:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Australian origin

Reference provided at [5] does not mention the term "ching chong" and its origin from Ballarat, Australia. Perhaps it's because these are abstracts listed. A reference to the specific paper being referenced needs to be provided. Bagumba (talk) 19:07, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Rosie O'Donnell edits citing "living person" reason

The WP:GOODFAITH edits http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ching_chong&action=historysubmit&diff=381881560&oldid=381880606 with reason "trimmed down, these are living people and O'Donnell apologized as soon as she knew" were changed/reverted for the following reasons:

• Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view says NPOV "is not a lack of viewpoint" and "material should not be removed solely on the grounds that it is "POV", but it must not give undue weight to a minor point of view"
• using ching chong to "note their news reports are often repeated around the world" does not make sense. It was specifically used to imitate a report in China and the source says as much.
• "O'Donnell apologized as soon as she knew": The incident was on December 5 and she apologized on December 14. The comment by her rep is sourced and relevant. Please provide reasons for removal of Bergs comments.
• removing quotes when Template:Cite_news used: the template says "Adding a quotation can help locate online copies of the item using a text search, especially if the original link goes dead". They should not be removed.

Bagumba (talk) 20:49, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Bryn Mawr College incident

The source to the January 2005 comedian performance provides a review of the performance only. It does not substantiate that "Some critics considered the outrage to be inconsistent". Also "However neither comedian was Chinese and the performance was considered controversial." is not in the reference and could be original research or pushing a POV that it would not be controversial if the performers were Chinese. Bagumba (talk) 21:20, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

The unsubstantiated text has been removed from the article. Bagumba (talk) 06:42, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Unsourced trivia

The following trivia list will be removed from the article as its been tagged as unsourced since Aug 2010. Feel free to reincorporate into article if sources can be found and there is explanation of cultural impact (i.e. its not just trivia).

• In the Lucky Luke episode "L'Héritage de Ran Tan Plan" ("Ran Tan Plan's inheritance"), when the Dalton brothers are hiding in the Chinatown of Virginia City, one of them, in order to "blend with the crowd", starts uttering phrases like "ching-chong-chang-cheng". The leader of the Chinese community there tells him he wouldn't use such raw language even in reference to his worst enemy.

• The opening theme song for the 1974–1976 animated series Hong Kong Phooey includes the lyrics, "Chinky chong, chinky chong, chinky chanky, chinky chong, chinky wah-chah-chah-wee, and ya' bow-wow-wow!" The lyrics for the theme song were written by Chester Stover, Watts Biggers, Treadwell Covington, and Joseph Harris. The song was sung by Scatman Crothers.

• The film Cannonball Run II had a scene where Jackie Chan was called 'Ching-Chong' by a motorcycle thug - Chan's character defeats the entire motorcycle gang.

• The final episode of TV Funhouse that aired on January 24, 2001, had Chinese New Year as its episode theme. In that episode, host Doug Dale, dressed in a changshan while also wearing a fake Fu Manchu moustache, used the slur twice. The first instance had him sing an altered verse from Auld Lang Syne as "Should auld acquaintance be forgot, ching-ching-chong, chong-chong, ching-chong". The second instance occurred later in the episode when he greeted the television audience with, "Howdy ... I mean, ching chang!" prior to introducing the Chinese calendar.

• The 2005 rap single "Ass Like That" by Eminem contains the lyrics "I sing song that go ringy chong / Ching chong chong chong ching / Psyche, I joke, I joke, I kid, I kid / If I offend, I'm sorry please please forgive".

• A MADtv sketch that aired on November 12, 2005, featured Frank Caliendo portraying then-U.S. President George W. Bush as the host of a late night talk show entitled Goodnight America Late Night Tonight Show Show [ sic ]. Then-Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, portrayed by Bobby Lee, is an audience member on the show. When Bush presented Koizumi with a picture of Laura Bush and asked if he knew who she was, Koizumi correctly identified her as the First Lady of the United States, only to be told by Bush that the correct answer was that she was his wife. Believing that Koizumi's response was incorrect, Bush proceeded to mock him by saying, "Ching chong's a ding dong!"

• On The Colbert Report, one of the recurring characters that Stephen Colbert plays is a character named "Ching-chong Ding-dong", whose mannerisms are that of a stereotypical Asian who "roves" tea. The character Colbert claims that he is immune to accusations of racism, as the caricature is merely a fictional character. Like much of the show, this satirises certain attitudes by having them being voiced through the character of Stephen Colbert, an ignorant and conceited parody of the American right.

• In 2008, the play Ching Chong Chinaman, written by Chinese-American playwright Lauren Yee, debuted at Impact Theatre in Berkeley, California. The comedy centers around an ultra-assimilated Asian-American family whose daughter dreams of nothing more than a Princeton acceptance letter and whose World of Warcraft-playing son purchases an indentured servant from China to help him with homework. The play has won numerous awards.

• The second episode of the second season of Extras begins with a scene from fictional television sitcom When the Whistle Blows in which two characters put on some "traditional Japanese entertainment" for visiting Japanese businessmen. The characters enter in stereotypical Japanese garments with tape slanting their eyes, singing "ching chang Chinaman milking a cow, ching chang Chinaman don't know how, ching chang Chinaman pull the wrong tit, ching chang Chinaman covered in shit!"

• In a 2009 episode of Mock the Week, comedian Frankie Boyle coined a children's television programme called "The Racist Door", and gave an example of a quote from the fictional show. "Hello children, shall we open the racist door? Who's behind it? Ooh, it's Ching Chong Chinaman!".

Bagumba (talk) 06:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Tjing tjong

It's not only used in English speaking countries. In Sweden for example, we say tjing tjong. Groff (talk) 22:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

UCLA's Alexandra Wallace

this should probably be included:

Asians in the Library: UCLA Rant (Original Uncut Video) and Apology Ching Chong! Asians in the Library Song (Response to UCLA's Alexandra Wallace) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthritix (talk • contribs) 23:21, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Scott MacDonald removed it because it's a "coatrack" and "tells us nothing about the subject as is a gratuitous use of material about a young living person's negative behaviour." Andrewlp1991 (talk) 02:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Early Nov. 2011, this has been added again. Removed, for the same reasons as before. The Interior (Talk) 23:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

This *is* about a young living person, but it seems worth including, not gratuitous, because (1) it shows that the slur is, unfortunately, live and well among the current generation of young people--not just older generations such as that of Rush Limbaugh and Rosie O'Donnell; (2) it also provides some evidence that others in the same generation are beginning to find this slur unacceptable, suggesting a possible cultural shift; and (3) the incident made national news and was widely covered. I'd argue for re-including it, for these reasons--though I was the one who added it again this morning (7 November 2011). 24.128.189.42 (talk) 02:11, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

There must be better ways to illustrate the valid points you state above. This person's name should not be up on a Wikipedia page associated with a You-tube goof-up. I'm sure she is counting the days until the public has forgotten this. The Interior (Talk) 02:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

She's not being "outed" as her name was already published. Still, would editors accept discussion of the incident without explicit mention of the person's name. There are interesting points about 1st amendment rights and the Sacramento Bee's POV about "jealousy" of the racial group.—Bagumba (talk) 02:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The article was deleted and then removed here. This is just censorship. CallawayRox (talk) 17:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

What Bagumba said above seems like a reasonably editorial compromise. As noted, this incident raises points about first amendment rights, etc., and simply omitting this widely-covered incident ignores that. Yes, this young woman is probably "counting the days until the public has forgotten this," as The Interior notes. And I feel for her, I do: she's young and made a mortifying decision that, I hope, she sees as a mistake. But at the same time, people who mistakenly catapult themselves into the public eye--whether intentionally or not--still warrant coverage and discussion here IF those cases raise larger issues. And this one seems to. Pretending this didn't happen, and avoiding ANY mention of the issues it raises (see the Sacramento Bee perspective, above), all because she's young and "mistakenly" used a racial slur--feels suspiciously like whitewashing over the whole incident. So perhaps it could be covered without mentioning her name specifically?24.128.189.42 (talk) 19:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I would say it needs a bit of a trim - there are nine externals, most of them are low quality and some of the content is tangential imo and removing it will help - imo the current version it undue for such a minor issue. Off2riorob (talk) 23:33, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I am assuming you are referring to the school newspaper as "low quality", but I'm pretty sure respected sources like the Los Angeles Times have equivalent info. Still, the paragraph can probably be condensed without losing the essence of the event and reactions. Eventually, this article should deal with the themes of each event, and whether this individual event is major or minor will be less important.—Bagumba (talk) 01:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

The more I looked at it, the less I liked it - I removed it completely - shes a one event private person. - Not notable student uploads video complaining about foreign people who use their mobile phone in the library - it might have got reported for a day or two but its not long term notable encyclopedic content. Off2riorob (talk) 11:27, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Sources from 2012 are indication of WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE.—Bagumba (talk) 18:47, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Agree that the paragraph about A. Wallace should be shortened under WP:WEIGHT. Dyaka (talk) 05:06, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Give me a break

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

An article about "ching chong" as a derogatory term? Man, that is seriously lame. "Ching chong" is simply one common variant of many which are sometimes employed to imitate what east Asian language sounds like to people who do not speak an east Asian language. It isn't inherently or necessarily offensive, though it could be in certain contexts depending on how and why it's used. It's not used exclusively to imitate Chinese nor is "ching chong" the only phrase used to imitate what east Asian languages sound like to people who don't speak an east Asian language. Moreover, east Asian languages are not the only languages imitated with nonsense phrases. I've heard people imitate German, Arabic, Italian, Spanish, and even Scottish accented English with similarly nonsensical pseudo phrases. This is politically correct idiocy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CannotFindAName (talk • contribs) 00:46, 25 November 2011 (UTC) =Thanks, 100% in agreement, as I'm sure any sane person is.

It's not so much what the word sounds like, but the history behind it (please read the article). To call that "not derogatory" reflects an attitude that treating one group with disrespect is totally okay, but not so with another group (i.e. Jews, Africans, Homosexuals, etc.) I don't understand why anybody would think it's alright to use a perjorative term of any sort against anybody. 142.229.90.134 (talk) 20:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Former NYC mayor Michael Bloomberg's aide's (alleged) mistakes with American Sign Language

Wasn't there some criticism of ex-Mayor Bloomberg's aide's translations of warnings in ASL as being "ching chong ASL"? (I seem to recall that a Saturday Night Live skit parodied the translations, as well, although I don't think that was coupled with the term "ching chong".) — Rickyrab. ^{Yada yada yada} 03:54, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Interesting aside

Seems like a Google search for "ching chong" turned up with this guy: http://www.dupont.com/corporate-functions/our-company/leadership/executive-leadership/articles/chong.html

Yup... seems like a DuPont president goes by the name of "Boo Ching (BC) Chong". — Rickyrab. ^{Yada yada yada} 04:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Misleading information

"The "ch" reflects the relative abundance of voiceless coronal affricate phonemes in the Chinese languages (six in Mandarin Chinese: /ts/, /tʂ/, /tɕ/, /tsʰ/, /tʂʰ/, /tɕʰ/), whereas English only has one: /tʃ/ ("ch")."

English does have /tsʰ/ as well. Anyway you can't count /ts/ or /tsʰ/ because they sound nothing like /tʃ/ since even English speakers can differentiate them. The problem is that according to a study, unaspirated consonants are voiced in 80 percent of the cases, especially in Northern China, so that means you could treat /ts/ and /tʂ/ as /dz/ and /dʐ/. Considering /tʂʰ/ to be the Chinese counterpart of /tʃ/ in English, nearly all phonemes are somehow present in English as well. Another reason why this a bad explanation is that many Slavic languages distinguish between these as well and no body seems to mock these. Yes, I'm aware that the contrast is unaspirated-aspirated in Chinese and voiced-voiceless in many other languages, but the contrast is actually the same. /ŋ/ as syllable coda is also present in Korean and Vietnamese where other stops can be codas too, but Cantonese is no different. This can't be the reason for the racism. This was probably started by some racist and it spread over time. When people comment Chinese songs in Youtube, they actually don't say "Ching chong" because the language really sounds like that. It's because they now this racist joke. These songs often just contain as many "annoying" syllables as other languages, but they have been "brainwashed" to hear these sounds where they are not used, thinking everything sounds the same. And historically, English-speaking people came in contact with Cantonese immigrants first. It became a racist term probably because of Cantonese and even many Chinese people themselves agree that Cantonese is one of the more annoying dialect groups. So applying this joke or explanation to Mandarin is wrong. --2.246.9.166 (talk) 07:16, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Modern incidents

I've just removed this entire section as a WP:BOLD edit for the simple reason that it comes across as a means to accuse or call various people racists. Sourced or not, I fail to see how this content is encyclopedic. If I wasn't an Inclusionist, I would have nominated the article for deletion, but it does serve as a means to explain that its a derogatory term to those ignorant enough not realize it. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 02:41, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

On the matter of Dennis "Svenskeren" Johnsen using the term it should be pointed that Dennis was not part of TeamSoloMid at the time of the incident, he was SK Gaming jungler as the 48th source points out, it would also improve the article if his full name was used rather than just his IGN in my opinion. It'd edit it myself but alas, I cannot. -- MoeSohmer (Talk) 7:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

or other East Asians

Earlier this year, the text was change from "or other East Asians who may be mistaken for Chinese that resided in Western countries" to simply "or other East Asians". I would think that the use of "ching chong" to refer to other non-Chinese East Asians is improper, since the term is used to mock Chinese. The reason why a lot of people use "ching chong" on other East Asians is because a lot of people can't tell them apart. Personally I think it should be reverted. Sega31098 (talk) 00:55, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2018

Racial Slurs: Since China has grown in a massive economical giant through out the world, one can experience a lot of cultural indifferences especially in the corporate working environment. Two of the barriers that usually causes conflict, is the language and culture differences. 41.182.147.36 (talk) 23:10, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. What edit are you actually requesting? The prose set forth here is unreferenced and simply reflects a personal view of issues that lacks support from reliable sources. The prose here is also not encyclopedic; "massive economical giant", "a lot," and "cultural indifferences" are grammatically erroneous and/or not encyclopedically phrased, for example. "Usually causes conflict" is unsupported; what does "usually" mean here? Ninety percent of the time whenever any person not from China interacts with a person from China? Wikipedia requires more precisison in discussion than this, particularly in the absence of a source that sets out clearly and succinctly what the issues are. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 23:19, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2018

Another word which is used to mock Asian people is "chigga". 145.131.209.52 (talk) 09:34, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what change(s) you want to make. Please make a precise request that includes reliable sources to back up any claims. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:45, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2018

I think it would be worth adding something about the recent controversy in the Dota 2 community to the modern incidents. See Filipino Dota 2 players ‘skem’ and ‘Kuku’ banned from Chongqing Major for using racist language against Chinese players (Fox Sports) and After Dota 2 Team Fails To Ban One Of Its Players, Valve Does It For Them (Kotaku) -- 112.97.59.122 (talk) 14:04, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:12, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Chinese semantic coup

Anglamericans say yada yada yada. Onomatopoeia isn't necessarily derogatory.

You can claim that in many cases, or add a percentage.

Sometimes others aren't able to mimic well the sound.

Many Chinese claim that mimicking is strictly derogatory.
Ok, why do then they mimic strictness? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:411F:D00:D3:379A:7FE7:ED76 (talk) 03:38, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

in Poland too! :)

We shout at them like: „Czing Czong, Ping Pong!” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.54.235.15 (talk) 18:41, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Not something to be happy about. If true, then this is a shameful disgrace for your country. Selerian (talk) 02:59, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Self-subhumanization of the Angloglots

we should mention all facts

the ching chong usage intention (ok even if the intention is frolicky, we should mention that this might cause harm)

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4Dfa4fOEY

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:587:411f:d00:d3:379a:7fe7:ed76 (talk) 04:08, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Dota 2: Players who used racial slurs barred from competing in Chongqing Major

source not covering the full story. source 55: "Dota 2: Players who used racial slurs barred from competing in Chongqing Major". ESPN. 25 November 2018. http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/25366591/kuku-skemberlu-barred-chongqing-major-use-racial-slurs

"He eventually apologized, but he was still banned from the tournament and his team TNC received penalties that lowered their chances of being invited to The International 2019.[54]"

the apologize mentioned in wiki page was a denial made by TNC that later got exposed as a lie. no sign of any further apologize could be found on major esport news-sites

proposed edit: "After an attempt of cover-up goes wrongly, China Dota community got furious and requests Valve, the tournament organizer to steps in. Valve reviewed the case and called for an ban on KUKU from the tournament and penalties on points that lowered TNC chances of being invited to The International 2019."

sources: https://kotaku.com/after-dota-2-team-fails-to-ban-one-of-its-players-valv-1830863539 https://www.vpesports.com/dota2/tnc-manager-takes-the-blame-for-kukus-cover-up-story/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrance511 (talk • contribs) 18:23, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Piers Morgan

Perhaps these sources from HuffPost should be included:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/piers-morgan-chinese-accent-good-morning-britain_uk_5e26ef85c5b674e44b9e21ab

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/piers-morgan-chinese-good-morning-britain-itv-complaints-apology_uk_5e5f71e8c5b67ed38b3ad753

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/piers-morgan-good-morning-britain-chinese_uk_5e8de04ec5b6e1d10a6d1e8e

On 21 January 2020, Piers Morgan annoyed his co-host Susanna Reid when he made a series of imitations of the Chinese language during the airing of a Good Morning Britain live program, apparently imitating the Chinese advertisement featuring Peter Phillips. Morgan then requested that the advertisement be played again, saying "ching chang cho jo," again attempting to repeat what was said in the advertisement. Ofcom has now received over 1,600 complaints in regards to the program, and ITV, which distributes Good Morning Britain, has issued a statement apologising for the incident. Ofcom has stated that it will not investigate on the matter further.

There seems to be more development regarding Piers Morgan's usage of "ching chong" on Good Morning Britain. The apologising statement by ITV and the statement by Oxcom is not mentioned on the article on Morgan, but I think this should be included in the article. 68.191.36.124 (talk) 22:29, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Spelling Error

I noticed a spelling error, which I feel should be corrected for this article. I realize that it is a quote lifted directly from the source, but I believe it was an error that was overlooked by an editor. It was misspelled in the quote USA Today provided, but the full quote isn't used in this article, so there is no reason it should be misspelled. The part in quotes on the Wiki doesn't include the word.

The quote is provided below:

""New York Assemblywoman Grace Meng said it was Limbaugh's prerogative to attack Hu, "but at the same time he offended 13% of New York City's population"."

Corrected text here:

"New York Assemblywoman Grace Meng said it was Limbaugh's perogative to attack Hu, "but at the same time he offended 13% of New York City's population"." GHosTxShadoux (talk) 08:21, 11 May 2020 (UTC)