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Talk:Computer mouse/Archive 1

< Talk:Computer mouse
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Zirukurt01 in topic Other types
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4

Wireless

How does a wireless mouse work and what do you need to support it? How long do the batteries last and how are they replenished?

Depends which one it is :)

"...involving a small object..."

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

A mouse is a handheld pointing device for computers, involving a small object fitted with one or more buttons and shaped to sit naturally under the hand.

Do we really need the "involving a small object" part?

Brianjd 05:46, 2004 Nov 13 (UTC)


I have a mouse that weighs about a kilogram and is almost a litre in size. Its very confortable :-) 137.122.50.133 23:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Weirdo...

Later mice - optical or inertial mechanisms

"Later mice used optical or inertial mechanisms to detect movement."

Optical mice I have seen. What mice used inertia mechanisms to detect movement? It seems far too difficult to make an inertial mechanism smooth and precise enough. --drj

I am unable to locate that sentence elsewhere. Brianjd 06:53, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

The only mouse to use anything remotely resembling inertial sensors are the Gyration products that use accellerometers to detect the device's vertical orientation. You move the cursor by tilting the device, in use the responsiveness is similar to a joystick since it's a rate device instead of a relative motion device.

Swedish inventor Håkan Lans

Swedish inventor Håkan Lans is also mentioned as "inventor" of the mouse in some contexts, maybe this should be mentioned?

Could well be another case of an American reinventing something, commercialising it, and getting the recognition because of it. If you've got some details on this, by all means add them. Be bold in updating pages! --Robert Merkel

Believe me, it's not. Engelbart never commercialized the mouse, and essentially has made zero money off of it. He's barely gotten any recognition for his accomplishments, of which the mouse is only an indicative part.--TheCunctator

What Håkan Lans did was to invent the first mass produced pointing device, a digitization tablet (the HI Pad, made by Houston Instruments). It workes with electrical wires and magnetic fields and uses a fix system. A mouse uses mechanical wheels and relative movements. // Liftarn 13:25 Jan 14, 2003 (UTC)

ECMAScript

unless ECMAScript code on a particular page attempts to enforce weak security by disabling the right-click button (this practice heavily annoys most users, and none of the 100 most popular web sites do this).

Not sure this ECMAScript stuff is relevant here: this is a bit UI-specific. -- The Anome

Cursor or Mouse Pointer

Might be good not to use the word cursor -- stick with "mouse pointer". To a lot of folks, the "cursor" is the text insertion point; the "pointer" is the arrow- or hand-shaped thing the mouse moves around. Google suggests "mouse pointer" is more prevalent than "mouse cursor" by about 50%. Pedantic, yes. --FOo

I don't think that's overly perdantic & I agree with you on the terms. -- Tarquin 12:59 Oct 21, 2002 (UTC)
Well, if we're being pedantic, some GUI systems (at least MS-Windows) refer to the text insertion point as the "caret" and the mouse pointer as the "cursor" in technical documentation. Suggest:
  • mention that it's called either a "cursor" or a "pointer"
  • use "mouse pointer" consistently throughout text
  • define what a cursor is ("a small picture that represents the active position of the mouse"), somewhere perhaps late in the article
Also, somewhere we need a more detailed writeup on GUI interaction styles in general. k.lee 08:01 Oct 25, 2002 (UTC)

On another point, could someone explain how the cursor on the screen is "mouse-like"? In what sense? What does that even mean? I assert that it is more dragster-like. But we don't call it that.. Maybe we could just find an interview with the inventors of the mouse wherein they state why they named it such? That would be better than speculating. BeakerK44 18:51, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It's the motion of the pointer that's mouselike. In any case, the "cord=tail" origin is definitely primary in why the name "mouse" stuck, regardless of what the inventors might have been thinking. Tverbeek 19:24, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Who are the critics of single-button mice?

  • Critics of single-button mice point to these facts as evidence that mice should have more than one button.

Who are these critics? Inquiring minds want to know! Is there an Anti-Single-Button-Mouse-Society or did someone just make up some phantom critics in the name of half-hearted NPOV? Pete 18:54, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Hello! I do not know about the "critics" but I know that when I started my research work on user interfaces some years ago I ran into one scientific study after another explaining how certain aspects of the single button mouse, such as the need for double clicks, made it a nightmare to use for several classes of users. I was overjoyed to hear that I was not the only individual in the world who was suffering endless frustration with the double click system. Even after years of mouse use I was still periodically clicking too fast or too slow, and swearing mightily each time or getting even more frustrated by holding it down. But my continued readings made me discover that a solution was sitting right under my nose. It turned out that MS Windows had, since a certain release, an option by which nearly all the double click functions (such as opening a file) could be converted to single click mode. I now live in bliss, being able to open folders, and do quite a lot of other things with a single click. I have never owned a Mac because of the price difference and other details, but I keep reading up on it because of my interest for some of its unique ways of permitting fast graphical markings such as color labels (removed in OS X but reinstated in the latest release in a slightly different and very interesting form) and the incredible ease by which any icon can be changed (or had been, since I have not yet checked if this is still possible with OS X) with any possible image. Because of these readings on the Mac user interface and the market of add-ons around it, I am certain that there must be a hidden function somewhere or a special software product made by a third party developer which makes it possible for those who have coordination problems or who are sometimes rythm-impaired like me to use a Mac with single clicking 99% of the time. So, please do not take my current state of bliss with one particular aspect of the MS Windows user interface to be a general endorsment of this user interface to the detriment of other user interfaces such as the OS X one, the AmigaDOs one, the Motif one, the JAVA one, and so on. AlainV, 20th of December 2003.

--

Hmm.
As you seem to know, a long time ago, mice had many buttons, and each one had a function. One button to select objects. Another button to open objects. Another button to move objects. And so on. With the invention of double-clicking, click-and-drag, and the like, those functions were increasingly assigned to the a single mouse button. (The reason this was done, ironically, is because user studies found that many people had trouble remembering which button did what. So they would move when they meant to open, etc.)
This, in turn, left a lot of people with multiple-button mice who had no use for the extra buttons. So those buttons were used for things like contextual menus. (Right-clicking.) This is now the case with Windows in its default state.
Now, of course, there is no reason why you cannot use a single-click interface with a single-button mouse. It's a function of the interface software, not the input device. Indeed, the Apple Mac OS has had a single-click option since version 8, which works just fine with the standard Apple one-button mouse.
In contrast, many important Windows functions are not available without the contextual menus, and hence, the second button. Which makes Windows difficult to use for people with limited finger dexterity, unless special hardware is purchased, or workarounds are implemented through the software.
-- Exia

I have a certain type of limited dexterity which makes double clicking nearly impossible in a predictable manner, constantly. I am delighted to know that the Mac now permits operations without double clicking. For years I would tell my friends who are Mac owners that their computer was very nice, but that each time I had to use a Mac (I do research on the nature of human-computer interaction, from the human side, but I do have to take a good look at different kinds of computers, sometimes) I found the double clicking rather hard. Then they would give me a sermon on the superiority of the Mac and the inferiority of anything else, and how I should abandon Windoze and get used to double clicking. Obviously, they did not know about that single click feature on the Mac. Just where do you turn it on? And what are those important Windows functions which "are not available without the contextual menus"? AlainV 23:25, 2004 May 24 (UTC)

In Mac System 9, single-click mode is activated by chosing View>As Buttons. (I think this was the way it was done in OS 8 as well, but don't remember perfectly.) There was also a "kiddie" interface that used this mode as far back as System 7, but this was just a shell, not a complete interface.
As far as Windows goes, there's no way (that I have found) to, for example, show properties or make shortcuts of objects on the desktop without right-clicking. (And I can't remember if there's a menu bar item to eject CD's.) You have to open a Windows Explorer window and navigate to the desktop to get a menu bar to perform these operations. Some applications also depend on right-clicking to access certain functions. There are, of course, ways to get around this, depending on your hardware and software configuration.
In my experience, Linux/Unix window managers tend to have the most options for configuring mouse actions.
--Exia

Thanks! Now, the trick will be to integrate this in articles. AlainV 02:43, 2004 May 25 (UTC)

Why is a mouse called a mouse?

Why is a mouse called a mouse ? Until recently I was totally conviced it was because the wire makes think to a mouse tail, but I recently discovered that the moving device in jet fighter air intake is also called a mouse and has a somewhat similar shape. Ericd 02:59, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"Mouse" is an old acronym for .. Manually Operated Universal Serial Equipment (a clever use of words) - user: skmskm

That's silly. It's called a mouse because of the tail. Every source I have (and I have seen all of them, including Engelbart's personal papers on file at Stanford) all say that.

Quite agree, skmskm is talking nonsense. Where is my US$10. wsw

Well I disagree people. Original devices that we now call a Mouse didn't even look like a mouse and as I said the name was not based on its looks anyway. You will note that Engelbart states "I don't know why we call it a mouse. It started that way and we never changed it.". So to refer to that article to argue that a Mouse is called a mouse because it has a wire (as all devices did then) is flawed.. or are you just trying to get $10. I'm certainly not. - skmskm

One button or two?

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The whole "One button or two?" section seems really awkward. It also seems completely out of proportion (too long) with how important the issue is. If you're really that interested, there are HCI references you can read. I think 2 paragraphs, or maybe 3, should be plenty: reasons for using a 1-button mouse, reasons for using a 2/3-button mouse, and possibly a paragraph for workarounds.

For example, there's a sizable chunk of text (the entire second paragraph) dealing with the issue of single/double-clicking an icon to open it. Then it goes on to admit that even 2-button systems typically require double-clicking, and even 1-button systems can be set up to open things by single-clicking. (So what was the point of that paragraph?)

One, two, or three buttons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse

In the article about Apple's Might Mouse it is stated that the mouse has multiple buttons. This article, however, has a picture of the mouse in the "One, two, or three buttons?" section stating that the Might Mouse is, in fact, a one button mouse. The Mighty Mouse article indicates that the mouse is designed similar to a single button mouse, but has four button "action"; this may not necessarily mean that there are four buttons, but it can easily be shown that the mouse does in fact have at least TWO buttons (that is, the top clicking surface of the mouse, and the side squeeze buttons). Perhaps the "One, two, or three buttons?" section of this article should be edited to properly reflect single button mice? 202.216.124.47 09:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

"Mechanical" mice

The earliest mice were, in fact, mechanical, using electrical contacts to detect the motion of the axes. These proved to be less reliable than desired, so the electrical rotation sensors were replaced with optical ones. All the mice made in the last 20 years use optical rotation sensors, and are correctly called optomechanical mice, not mechanical ones. tooki 02:36, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Mirror-image photos

The two photos of Engelbart's original mouse currently included in the article are mirror-images of one another. The positions of the red button and the broken wood are reversed between the the two photos. In order to decide which one is correct, we need to know: is Engelbart right- or left-handed? --Arteitle 07:43, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

This image agrees with the right-handed mouse, since the vertical wheel is on the thumb side. --Doradus 17:08, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Moved from article

The following section is not directly related to the computer mouse article, but more to user interfaces or something like that. It sounds very un-professional. — David Remahl 14:27, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Right-clicking and copyright/security issues

In most web browsers and many GUI operating systems, including Microsoft Windows, the right-click action is used to activate context-sensitive menus and control many aspects of the system's, objects', and applications' properties. In particular, it usually offers menu items for saving links and images from Web pages, starting downloads and so on.

Because of this, schemes to prevent its usage were devised for use in public/shared computers, like those found in informational kiosks or internet cafes, to prevent intentional or accidental abuse of the machine.

Also, web developers devised methods to disable right-clicking on their sites, to discourage saving images or downloading/copying other copyright-protected objects. The methods used to implement this range from simple JavaScript (which could be easily defeated by turning JavaScript support off) down to proprietary browser-specific plugins, ActiveX content, and perhaps even proprietary semi-secret features in Microsoft's Internet Explorer. In most of these cases, merely using another web browser, or disabling plug-ins and active content in general, is enough to circumvent these schemes.

On the other hand, some creators of images published online have complained about the default behavior of Internet Explorer which, when the mouse hovers over an image (without clicking or any other action by the user), volunteers a button panel which facilitates saving the file to the visitor's computer. They argue that it encourages unauthorized copying of their work. This button panel can be disabled for a given page by the web developer.

Exactly why does it sound unprofessional (maybe you mean POV)? Please explain. EpiVictor 14:55, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It has very little to do with the computer mouse, it has to do with functions for saving images. I think that the people that suggest that having a contextual menu for saving images "encourages unauthorized copying of their work" are unprofessional, but that's besides the point. It is not appropriate to include it in this article, except possibly as a "see also". I would also like to see actual references for the claims, in whatever article it is brought up again.
Just because the mouse is used to perform most activities on a modern desktop computer, we can't include them all here. — David Remahl 15:10, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I can agree on removing the part about the "contextual menu" (which was not written by me,I must say), but as for the rest I think the section can be put back in the article. Right clicking and the associated powers/handicaps that derive from its use or its denial are confirmed and verifiable beyond reasonable doubt by ANY web surfer or anyone having used an "interactive kiosk" as well by any user of a modern GUI (Windows 95 and newer, Linux shells etc.) EpiVictor 12:01, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Linux shells aren't GUI's. The Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines specify explicitly that no functionality should be accessible _only_ from a contextual ("right click") menu. Furthermore, contextual menus are not only accessed by right clicks, but some systems offer keyboard keys or a combination of keyboard modifiers and mouse buttons for bringing them up. I'm still trying to understand what point the passage was intended to convey to the reader. — David Remahl 12:12, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cat

Should mention similar device "cat". --65.174.34.14 20:34, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Claiming this the fact that in the beginning computer mice were also called bugs cannot be ignored. See Douglas Engelbart for more. / McB

Main image

This seems like a good place to include a non-stereotypical image. The product photos would be OK here, but... Well, I'm just obviously fond of this cutaway image. I understand if someone feels strongly about the product overview photos for a main image. Your call. And yours.. and yours...

Category:First-person shooters

Mice are important to playing FPS games. A good mouse can give you an added advantage. Many fps gamers have good optical mice on top of their desk. The genre is one of the few that is meant to be played with a mouse and keyboard, not a joystick or gamepass. I think that putting this in the FPS category makes perfect sense. Reub2000 21:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That may well be, but mouses aren't something which are specifically FPS-based. Also, who says that FPSs are "meant to be played with a mouse and keyboard"? You may feel that way, but one assumes that it's meant to be played on whatever the developer chooses to release it on, and that includes platforms which don't have mouse or keyboard support. Anyway, if we start categorizing things into the applications which use them, we'll have long unweildly lists, because lots of things use mice, keyboards, gamepads, etc. - Vague | Rant 02:02, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)
But so many mice and mouse accessories are made for gamers. Sure you could use a Logitech MX518 on a Func Surface 1030 for editing spreadsheets, but both of those products are meant for gamers. When is the last time you saw a mouse pad made specifically for use is in a word processor? Or what about teflon mouse feet covers for doing your income tax? Sure there are console fps games, and with stuff like xbox live, some of them are competitively played on the Internet. But purists almost universal consider deathmatches are only properly played on computers using a mouse and keyboard. Reub2000 03:48, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Apple

The first paragraph that discusses Apple is especially ... weird.

"Due to an early design decision by designer Jef Raskin, the Apple Macintosh has always shipped with a single-button mouse" -- er, huh? Due to his design decision, it *initially* shipped with a 1-button mouse. He's dead now, so I suspect that if they wanted to ship a 2- or 3-button mouse, Jef would not be able to stop them. (More likely, they use a 1-button mouse because there are good reasons for doing so.)

"Despite the fact that Mac OS X has supported multi-button mice for years, Apple ships all of its new computers with single-button mice, despite the controversy." -- Despite, despite?

"This is defended by the company as an decision meant to simplify and maintain control over the overall "look-and-feel" of the user interface." -- er, it is? I've never heard that. (How does having a 1-button mouse "maintain control"?) Can we get a reference for this? It sounds like somebody putting words in Apple's mouth.

I don't think the Apple rant belongs in this article at all, least of all in the Additional buttons section when it's preceded by the more general and appropriate Buttons. I removed it, but I'll put it here as it was in case someone finds it needful to include it:
Due to an early design decision by designer Jef Raskin, the Apple Macintosh has always shipped with a single-button mouse, requiring users to "chord" mouse gestures by pressing a keyboard button. Despite the fact that Mac OS X has supported multi-button mice for years, Apple ships all of its new computers with single-button mice, despite the controversy. This is defended by the company as an decision meant to simplify and maintain control over the overall "look-and-feel" of the user interface.
--82.181.58.22 16:15, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Microsoft's and Logitech's recent Mouse Releases

Latest comment: 15 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Shouldn't this be included *somewhere* in this article? Because there are now mice that would work on virtually any surfaces including glass and mirrored surfaces. I'm not going to add any content to this article as of right now but I would like to hear what your take is with these two technologies: Bluetrack and Darkfield. I don't know where this will fit in the article, so those of you who edit this article are on your own. I can provide pictures via MediaWiki if you guys insist. 70.131.145.107 (talk) 12:55, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Is this the "Glass laser mouse" one section mentions. IMO it does not seem all that significant that a mouse can track on glass but it does not hurt to mention it.--Anss123 (talk) 10:06, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

1990s mouse

Latest comment: 14 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

The 1990s mouse pictured is a Microsoft Intellimouse, introduced in 1996. Here is a photo just like it in a 1996 magazine; it's not a "21st century" design as one editor just speculated based on the 2005 photo date. Dicklyon (talk) 07:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah ok, thanks for picking that up. The article previously described the mouse as "contemporary"; my edit was in response to an IP who doubted that was correct ([1]). Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:48, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm still confused – I see that it's a microsoft mouse based on the file info, but I don't see how you can know when it was made. It's clearly a different mouse to the one in the ref, based on the scroll wheel and the lack of the microsoft logo. Surely it would be safest just to remove any mention of the date? Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 13:47, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
True, it's not identical, as it probably went through some minor manufacturing changes. The uploader of the photo states that it's a Microsoft mouse, and the stying is close enough to be recognizably the same item or a very close copy. I'd be OK going back to 1990s instead of a specific year, unless you can show that that styling came later. I see no reason here to prefer "safest" over informative. Dicklyon (talk) 17:28, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
The mouse in the picture is a "Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse 1.0", and it is the same model of mouse that I have. It came out circa 2002, and it is very different from the Microsoft Intellimouse 1.0 in the reference. InternetMeme (talk) 13:09, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks InternetMeme. Dicklyon, it's not that I prefer safest over informative, it's that I prefer no information over information that's likely to be incorrect. It's clear that we can't be sure exactly when the pictured mouse was released, so I've removed the date claim entirely ([2]). Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 14:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

More details required

Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

how does lasers works in mouse.what are the components required in making a laser mouse.how these components are arrenged in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.212.108.132 (talk) 04:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

how does laser senses the things like finger... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.212.108.132 (talk) 04:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Dragging an object with the right mouse button

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Some programs allow you to drag objects by pointing to the object, holding the right mouse button down, and moving the mouse device. I proposed the correct term for this procedure is not the more common "drag" (meaning dragging the object with the left mouse button), but "drag with the right mouse button." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.104.225 (talk) 17:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Comparison of mouse technologies

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I would like to see in this article or in another article with a link in this one of a comparison of mouse technologies (ball, optical, laser and bluetrack) - precision, surfaces where it works, etc. Can anyone gather this information?

512upload (talk) 14:58, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Article self-contradiction

Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The introduction says that the Xerox 8010 Information System had the first integrated mouse

but later in the article it said that Telefunken had the first mouse, and xerox had the second

I'm going to keep the article consistent with itself, and remove/change the intro to say reflect the fact that Telefunken was first. If this is wrong, feel free to correct me; I'm not a mouse expert Megacellist (talk) 13:45, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

The Telefunken thing is pretty poorly worded, it sounds like... like a German writing in English. It could be rewritten, better. In fact, for such a ubiquitous topic, the article is poorly written in general, featuring such gems as "This scheme is sometimes called "quadrature encoding" or some similar term by technical people." 110.164.174.26 (talk) 05:51, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing much about wheels

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I was specifically looking for info about horizontal wheels. I remember mice in the past with true horizontal wheels. But now days all documentation appears to insinuate horizontal scrolling is always via "tilt" functionality. Which is quite different from a wheel. That said the Win32 API looks like a wheel. Are horizontal wheels extinct? If not programmers should be able to distinguish between a "tilt" and wheel proper (for now it seems that's not an option -- for Microsoft Windows anyway)

Either way, there's virtually nothing about wheels to be seen (unless I missed something) and what there is seems to assume the reader is keyed in --72.173.160.50 (talk) 07:02, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

CC licensed photos of the Hawley X063X Mouse Mark II

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I have taken photos of two examples of the Hawley X063X Mouse Mark II and released them under a CC-BY-SA license in case anyone is interested in adding them to this article. They can be found here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.113.171 (talk) 20:58, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

New Mouse Picture!!!

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Come on everyone...that mouse looks and is so old. There are so many new ones out, they dont even have to look futuristic like some of these new ones coming out, How about the Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.76.181 (talk) 20:46, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Apple's New Gesture Mouse

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

You have the standard mouse layout, you have the various technologies of mice, yet I didn't see at all any mention of the new Apple gesture mouse. While it isn't world famous, I believe that it should get a mention somewhere, perhaps under Operation? I can't figure out a better place for it. Timex1 (talk) 15:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

1986 Apple mice photo

Latest comment: 13 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

I think this is a poor picture. The text under it refers to two versions, presumably colors. With my eyes (I am not color blind) and on my screen (typical MS vintage about 2009), I don't see any difference between the two. 211.225.34.185 (talk) 08:13, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

I think you are color blind. Dicklyon (talk) 16:37, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Concur with Dicklyon. The photo vividly illustrates Apple's shift away from beige towards white plastic. It's either your eyesight or you need a better monitor. --Coolcaesar (talk) 10:17, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
There are distinct colors for the mice. I do not know why you don't see a difference. It could be your monitor, but a 2009 system should be running with 24-bit color. Some people who can discern colors are still color blind but may not know it; a small red-green color blindness is common; there's an Ishihara test. My father, after his cataract surgery, remarked that everything had an unnoticed yellow tinge; whites were now much brighter to him. There could be many reasons, but the picture does show distinct colors. Glrx (talk) 15:55, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The article could (should?) include the LG XM-900, which replaced the scroll whell with a second optical sensor.

Most of the photos depict Microsoft products. The article should NOT give so much room for a particular brand. Worse, sometimes the photos are almost pointless (mouse with a mousepad!). Please, replace photos with images hiding the manufacturer name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.212.23.130 (talk) 17:37, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


Connectivity and communication protocols

Latest comment: 12 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

In the section Connectivity and communication protocols, there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of the fact that the Amiga uses an Atari standard 9-pin joystick connector for mice/mouses, but with different pins meaning different things. Should I add this to the article? JIP | Talk 19:49, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

As there have been no comments about this, I gone ahead and have added the information. JIP | Talk 21:40, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

"Mouse speed"

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The section titled "Mouse speed" actually deals with pointing transfer functions and contains a few erroneous statements.

The text says "the higher the CPI, the faster the cursor moves with mouse movement", for example. Although I agree this is what happens with current systems, the reason for this is that these systems poorly implement the concept of transfer function.

The following paper explains both how things should work and how they actually work on Microsoft Windows, Apple OS X and with the Xorg server:

G. Casiez and N. Roussel. No more bricolage! Methods and tools to characterize, replicate and compare pointing transfer functions. In Proceedings of UIST'11, the 24th ACM Symposium on User Interface Software and Technology, pages 603-614, October 2011. ACM. http://interaction.lille.inria.fr/~roussel/publications/2011-UIST-libpointing.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cargamax (talk • contribs) 15:35, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

History of Mouse

Latest comment: 12 years ago7 comments5 people in discussion

http://www.macworld.com/article/137400/2008/12/mouse40.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.163.155 (talk) 12:56, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. That source, which states the first mouse with a ball was designed in 1972, certainly contradicts the text you've been removing, which states a mouse with a ball already existed in 1968. Does anyone know whether the removed text correctly represents the German source it cites? Or of any reason to believe one source over the other? Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 14:08, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
"Contradicts" may be too strong an interpretation. The writer of that article just didn't know about the earlier ball mouse at Telefunken. Dicklyon (talk) 16:41, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
More Douglas C. History of Mouse (movies and more) on this Page: http://sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/1968Demo.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.169.181 (talk) 21:36, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Doug is a friend of mine, and the history of his mouse is well known. Not many sources have been aware of the Telefunken mouse that was independently developed about the same time, however. That is not a reason to remove the material that seems to be reasonably sourced. Dicklyon (talk) 03:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Ok, but "The trackball was invented by Tom Cranston, Fred Longstaff and Kenyon Taylor working on the Royal Canadian Navy's DATAR project in 1952. It used a standard Canadian five-pin bowling ball." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.169.181 (talk) 07:14, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

This might be of interest: The Demo That Changed the World by the Smithsonian Channel. Asteriks (talk) 11:04, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Current consensus is that non-free image of Engelbart mouse is legit use

Latest comment: 11 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The non-free image of the first computer mouse is used in this article in compliance with the fair use guidelines for non-free images. Although there is a free image of the same object, it doesn't provide the same information for which the current one is being used; so it's not a free equivalent with respect to criterion WP:NFCC#1 for "the same encyclopedic purpose" - to "illustrate the size and grappling position of the first created mouse prototype (from which the name "mouse" was derived), and the structure on which the wheels are mounted."

A consensus was developed to keep this non-free image for this article, and the free image everywhere else (see how the consensus was achieved here and here). Unless consensus changes through further discussion, this image should not be removed from this article. Diego (talk) 22:13, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

I concur with your analysis of the consensus. Disavian (talk) 02:56, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Mickeys

Latest comment: 11 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

Without wanting to call the entire Wikipedia citing structure into question, just how reliable a source should the internal, programmer-commented config settings file structure of an ancient and probably arbitrarily-chosen mouse driver be considered for sourcing the technical name of something? They might just have made it up as an easy thing to write for their own purposes. In this case, using "mickeys" in place of "individual mouse movement sensor reports"... which through what seems to be very loose interpretation by whoever wrote the wiki text based on it, has somehow mutated into "0.1mm" and some vague reference to it as "mouse speed" in terms of "pixel movements per physical mouse movement" (in other places that then refer back to this slightly confusing article). Especially with the difference in vertical and horizontal mickeys, which is a total fallacy - any normal mouse will give the same reporting resolution on both axes; MOUSE.SYS just defaulted to halving it's output counts (based on the mouse input and a software-based multiplication factor) for the vertical direction because, given the sheer age of the reference material, the usual standard at the time was for approximately 640 horizontal and 200 vertical pixels, but displayed in a frame originally designed for 320x200 (or 640x400), so each pixel's height was double that of its width.

Is there anything more solid, a better reference manual addressing mouse interfacing and hardware etc in general that describes mouse sensor counts in this way and defines them as a particular physical distance, rather than a particular (DOS? Unix? I _think_ it's the former) programmer's guide designed simply to tell you how to hook into the mouse driver and use it to control your programs?

I never heard of the term before today, when it was referenced on a quiz somewhere, investigation of which led me back here. Been using mouse-driven GUIs since about 1990, but never heard of anything other than DPI (or CPI or PPI or whatever, usually 200... 300... 600... rather than the multiples of 254 that "0.1mm" would imply) and software acceleration factors. 87.114.179.252 (talk) 15:41, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I had never heard of it either (I don't do Windows), but if you do a search for "Mickey Pixel Ratio" you'll find it all over, including a fair number of books and magazines. Dicklyon (talk) 23:31, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
I tried to make what it says about Mickeys more sensible, but I don't find any great definition in sources, so I'm not so sure I got it quite right. Is a Mickey really 1/200 inch? Or is it in general the step that the mouse reports as a count? Dicklyon (talk) 01:36, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
I don't know, but my impression is a mickey is the arbitrary unit that the mouse reports as a count in the status packet. This page (apparently citing PC Magazine May 28 1991 v10 n10 p413) states the packet reports mickeys. This page suggests that the PS/2 mouse could be programmed to change its reported unit to accommodate more resolution or faster travel (changing mickey unit to avoid overflow rather than changing the mickey/pixel ratio). Glrx (talk) 01:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
I've been coding for Windows since 3.0 (i.e. late 1980s) and the "mickey" has been a unit of regular discourse amongst device driver writers since at least then. I've rarely used it myself, but when getting obscure stuff like custom trackballs or joystick controls to work, I've had to deal with it. As it's a somewhat hardware dependent unit, any decent layered OS will hide it away from application developers as far down the stack as possible. It's hard enough for GUI developers to work with pixels in a world of points and ems (if they're trying to make flexibly-sizable windows), let alone mickeys. Andy Dingley (talk) 02:04, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Naming

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

In an obituary for inventor Douglas Engelbart, the NYT comments: "(When and under what circumstances the term “the mouse” arose is hard to pin down, but one hardware designer, Roger Bates, has contended that it happened under Mr. English’s watch. Mr. Bates was a college sophomore and Mr. English was his mentor at the time. Mr. Bates said the name was a logical extension of the term then used for the cursor on a screen: CAT. Mr. Bates did not remember what CAT stood for, but it seemed to all that the cursor was chasing their tailed desktop device.)" Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 09:51, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Mouse Inventor

Latest comment: 11 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Has anyone bothered to check out Professor Ralph Benjamin who invented the mouse in 1944. It was kept secret for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.109.66.151 (talk) 13:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

According to thissource, the device he invented was more like a trackball than a mouse. Diego (talk) 14:52, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, according to the description clearly a trackball, not a mouse. The Telegraph article mentions 1946 as the patent year, whereas the WP article on Benjamin mentions (but is unsourced) that it was patented between 1947 and 1957. Quite a difference, if you ask me...
Nevertheless, given that the UK and Canada are both NATO members since 1949, I would only find it normal, that such ideas would spread around. The British and the Canadian trackball were even used for basically the same purpose...
What we'd need, however, is more independent and reliable sources (the patent or historic documents mentioning the device), not modern newspaper articles citing the potential inventors themselves.
--Matthiaspaul (talk) 16:07, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Therefore the way I've included, as a "claim" rather than fact. I find something dubious, though. Can an invention be patented, and then kept private? Isn't the purpose of patents to spread knowledge, and aren't they automatically published when granted? Diego (talk) 17:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
You are right for "normal" patents. However, secret patents exist. For obvious reasons, you won't find much about them. The exact conditions differ from country to country, sometimes a patent declared a secret will not be published until the status is withdrawn, sometimes it can be filed, but will not be granted until it can be made public. (This document reveals a bit about the secret patent situation in the UK today: [3]) In either case, a trackball-like device is no longer anything special, so any declaration as secret should have long been withdrawn more than 65 years after the fact... --Matthiaspaul (talk) 20:53, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
BTW, there's another name sometimes mentioned as an inventor of an early mouse-like device, Håkan Lans from Sweden. Apparently, what he invented was an early form of digitizer (graphic tablet-like), which was used as pointing device. However, I haven't seen any reliable sources discussing this so far, therefore I'm just mentioning this for further research. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 16:27, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Mouse glides/feet/anti-friction pads

Latest comment: 11 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I quickly read through the article about "Mouse" but couldn't find anything about those small things underneath the mouse (usually four of them): anti-friction pads, glides, feet or whatever it's called. Maybe someone could add a few words about this? Perhaps someone more educated in the world of mice? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vedlikeh0ld (talk • contribs) 16:31, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

On my hp two-button wheel mouse, there are two pads. Kdammers (talk) 02:44, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Mouse speed section a mess

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'm removing the statement that one mickey is approximately 1/200th of an inch, since it's blatantly false and unsourced. Computer mice commonly have resolutions higher than 200 DPI; for instance, I have mine working at about 5000 DPI, so moving the mouse by 1/200th of an inch would make it report about 25 mickeys instead of one. Reinistalk 23:30, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Invert Mouse - again

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

i have always played with inverted Y axis coz it was the natural way for me from the 1st time. so aircraft handling has nothing or little to do with it. its about your head: tilt your head forward and u r looking down, tilt your head back, and u r lookin upwards. IMHO its a bit dumb to call the right way 'inverted' and to call the inverted way 'normal' but marketing dictates.

Thank you! I am so tired of this "inverted" expression. Of course the term is, in fact, what is inverted. You're absolutely right! It's dumb to call the right way "inverted". TiriPon (talk) 22:06, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

i tried to change to non-inverted before (when i met a game without the option to invert Y axis) but i get dizzy and feel like i am gonna throw up in a minute if i am trying to play that way.

1 more: there were discussions on splitting this article. i suggest someone should 'outsource' the 'inverted mouse' part into its own article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.249.241.82 (talk) 21:49, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

File:Mouse mechanism diagram.svg

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Mouse mechanism diagram.svg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 2, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2014-07-02. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:44, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

A diagram of a mechanical mouse, showing how these pointing devices operate.
  1. Friction with the surface below the mouse turns the ball as the mouse is slid along.
  2. X and Y rollers grip the ball and transfer movement.
  3. The rollers turn optical encoding disks.
  4. Infrared LEDs shine through holes in the disks.
  5. Sensors count the light pulses to derive X and Y velocities. The computer interprets these readings and moves the mouse cursor correspondingly on the screen.
Diagram: Jeremykemp and Pbroks13
Archive – More featured pictures...
Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Order of text in the article

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

It seems to be a bit strange that the Telefunken Mouse is mentioned after the Engelbart Mouse even though the Telefunken Mouse was sold as a product months before the Engelbart Mouse was shown as a hand-crafted fretwork.

So let us reorder the two paragraphs in the article. Schily (talk) 14:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 4 November 2015

Latest comment: 8 years ago12 comments9 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. The consensus is that the natural title is preferable. Jenks24 (talk) 13:41, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


Mouse (computing) → Computer mouse – WP:NATURAL, seems more natural to call it a computer mouse than "Mouse (computing)". Prisencolin (talk) 13:41, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Size

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

On the market there are normal and mini size mouse. But there is no definition what is "Normal-size" and "Mini-size" it should be noted by dimensions. Web page ([1]) gives idea about dimensions according to normal-size hand i.e. 17" (178mm). Please discuss in details mouse size in this article. Best regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.38.62 (talk) 10:38, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://evoluent.com/size/
Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Dirty mice

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

This might be too detailed to include in the article, but for actual mouse-users, it is a significant fact, so I'll mention it here and we can see if it's considered worthy of entry in the article. The rollers wheeled mice pick up small particles of dust/dirt/lint/paper that then gradually but not slowly build up as ribbons of "dirt on the rollers. This leads to poor functioning and finally malfunctioning or even nonfunctioning until some-one twists of the bottom donut ring and manually cleans the rollers. Kdammers (talk) 02:55, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Aren't wheel mice worthless as they collect dust and dirt, and can be ruined if you move the mouse too vigorously? In my school's breakfast club, the muses were really unresponsive unless you REALLY moved them. Anyone else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.83.245.130 (talk • contribs)

I observered this may be missing from the article. Some were more susceptible than others. There was a gentle art to taking them apart and cleaning the gunk out of them. Sometimes the mouse ball would benefit from being washed with soap, and Apple Mac mice balls with a toothbursh. I would not have thought of these things myself so its probably sourceable somewhere! Djm-leighpark (talk) 21:43, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Is mouse an acronym ?

Latest comment: 5 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

Manually-operated user-select equipment, see this page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.123.167.223 (talk) 10:57, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

No, mice were invented at XEROX Palo Alto Research Center (PARC), and were named because they looked like mice, with a tail (cord), two eyes (buttons), and about that size -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Before the mouse was "invented" at XEROX, Telefunken did already sell them (the system was called RKS-100-86 (Rollkugelsystem) several months as part of a military 3D RADAR device that used a TR440 computer for graphical data processing. So what we can say for sure is that the name mouse was invented by XEROX. Schily (talk) 10:43, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
BTW: this article [4] nicely shows how the ball in the Telefunken mouse drives optical rotation angle sensors. Schily (talk) 10:49, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
So, you can say that the term "mouse" was used at first in 1981 by XEROX ? If true, this should be mentioned in the article because earlier mice were not termed "mouse". --Max schwalbe (talk) 08:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Origin ot the term "mouse"

Latest comment: 5 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

In the history part, it is mentioned that Engelbart already used this term in den 1960ths, as shown in a document from July 1965. I can't follow this, because the device is termed Computer-Aided Display Control in this document. Later documentes, "X-Y-position indicator for a display system" ... Might be that there already was "mouse" as an inofficial nickname. But it should be noteably for this article, who used the term "mouse" officially at first. I guess this was in the early 1980ths when mouse devices were established as a consumer product. But, as it seems, the term "mouse" was not protected by one of these companies as it's brand. Actually surprising ... --Max schwalbe (talk) 09:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

You can read the 1965 report, where the word "mouse" is used multiple times to refer to the device. It is reference #3 in this article. The team certainly used the word "mouse" to describe the device before 1965, but that was not published before 1965. --Frmorrison (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Concur. It's definitely mentioned in the July 1965 report. --Coolcaesar (talk) 18:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Lead sentence

Latest comment: 5 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

Is it really necessary to say "A computer mouse, often simply referred to as a mouse..."? We don’t really see this on other "Computer ______" articles, like Computer keyboard, Computer monitor, and Computer hardware for instance. 150.250.5.30 (talk) 03:27, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

A bit, yes. BernardoSulzbach (talk) 18:02, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Maybe "In computer hardware, a mouse is ..." would be better? Dicklyon (talk) 04:05, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
@Dicklyon: Except that MOS:LEAD reads, "If an article's title is a formal or widely accepted name for the subject, display it in bold as early as possible in the first sentence. In this case, "computer mouse" is in fact both a formal and widely accepted name, and as such, we should keep the current, "A computer mouse..." introduction.
The question is whether it is worthy of noting that "a computer mouse is often referred to simply as a mouse". I feel like that should be implied. For just about all computer topics, we omit the prefix "computer" when the context is clear. Yet the lead sentence of computer program doesn't read, "A computer program, often simply referred to as a program...". And computer virus doesn't read, "A computer virus, often simply referred to as a virus..." Same goes for Computer monitor and Computer keyboard as mentioned above. 150.250.5.30 (talk) 06:59, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
I just revised the lead by taking out ", often simply referred to as a mouse,". Hopefully this works. 150.250.5.30 (talk) 07:08, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

nipple mouse

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

[5] as it is also called, so maybe a mention except only in see also. I know it is a Pointing stick but it bears more resemlance to a mouse than to a joystick. 89.201.184.159 (talk) 22:57, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

projection mouse or trackpad

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

ODiN is first laser projection mouse (around 2016). It's also called (first) laser projector trackpad [6]

It's a question of whether it should be considered a mouse or a trackpad. It would deffinitely be good addition. 89.201.184.8 (talk) 23:15, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Trackpad and mouse replacements on laptops

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I think the article should mention that mice are replaced by trackpads in most laptops today, after a period where "trackballs" and Pointing sticks were equally frequent. — MFH:Talk 23:02, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Etymology

Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Engelbart collaborator Roger Bates has claimed the device is named after the cursor, then called the CAT, not for it's resemblance to the animal.

-- (unsigned) 2021-08-10T11:21:25‎ 104.247.240.52

Thanks, I have added this to the article. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 10:33, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Shouldn't Mouse Speed Section mention DPI, Polling rate & Click Speed?

Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Mouse speed section needs more valuable information. There are two main parameters for mouse speed i.e. clicking speed and tracking speed.

The clicking speed depends on different factors like DPI, polling rate, and how fast a person can press the mouse button. While switches are a hardware choice, mostly Omron switches are considered better. For polling rate, the higher the more number of clicks it can report every second.

The individual clicking speed varies from person to person and click speed can be checked online. An average person can do 5-7 clicks per second, while professional gamers can do over 12 clicks per second. And, it can be improved with practice.

The tracking speed is directly related to the polling rate which means the frequency at which mouse reports its position to the computer. It is measured in Hz. Polling rate can vary from as low as 125 Hz (125 times in 1 second) to as high as 1000 Hz (1000 times in 1 second). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.97.136.130 (talk) 18:01, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Other types

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

It would be good to expand types section (into more sub/sub-sub sections):

  • trackball mouse
  • Pen Mouse
  • joystick Mouse
    • Novint Falcon - a unique iteration
  • vertical mouse (can be a gaming mouse like Zalman FPSGun FG1000 Gaming Mouse)
  • game specific mouse like Konami Pop'n Music Be-Mouse
  • inflatable mouse (Jelly Click)
  • air mouse (MX Air Computer Mouse - can be used on a flat surface like a regular mouse or in the air like a remote control [7] or YUMQUA Finger Hand Held 4D Trackball mini Mouse - it has laser pointer, or Perific Wireless Dual Mouse) - this type could be considered 4D mouse
    • Deanmark's AirMouse - completely wearable mouse [8] [9]
    • levitating mouse - Bat by Vadim Kibardin - it seems it's just an idea for now [10] [11]
  • touchmouse (like Eclipse touchmouse)
  • rotating round mouse like Orbita Mouse
  • Bendy-M mouse - maybe a unique version of 3D mouse [12]
  • modular mouse (Razer Naga Trinity Gaming Mouse - comes with three interchangeable side plates) [13]
  • foldable mouse (recon foldable mouse) 95.178.135.0 (talk) 18:38, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

hybrids

  • Hanwang T&MOUSE - two-in-one tablet mouse
  • mouse+keypad combo (Ezkey Keypad Computer Mouse - has more keys than standard keypad, or Sanwa NT-MA2, or Razer Naga Trinity Gaming Mouse with one of the provided sideplates)
  • canon LS-100TKM - Mouse, Calculator & Numeric Keypad - has a full keypad and 10-digit LCD screen
  • Smitrix Swiftpoint Triped Mouse - a mouse, a touchpad and a digitizer pen - designed for tablet PCs and multi-touch tabletop surfaces
  • mouse/phone - Jela Skype Mouse [14]
  • Contour Roller Mouse - has a bit different design, uses sth called rollerbar - in a sense similar to trackball.
  • Mousetrapper Control Pad - "not a touch pad, it’s a mechanical control pad...; mouse alternative" [15], a bit similar to roller mouse 89.201.184.8 (talk) 23:15, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
Those are very nice inventions, but it may end up not being published to the main article, Pen Mouse is also called as GStick. Kurt R.✉ 07:28, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
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