Talk:Crossroads (1986 film)

the slide parts on in the end duel are infact played by ry cooder, if you read the booklet inside the illusive light and sound case

William Kanengiser

I've read that, while Ry Cooder played the slide material for Ralph Macchio's character, it was William Kanengiser who played the classical stuff. Is this true?--[[User:The Fat Man Who Never Came Back|The Fat Man Who Never Came Back]] 20:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

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I'm pretty sure Steve Vai wrote the classical sweep picking duel. It is also on his Elusive Light and Sound CD right after the head cutting duel. I've read somewhere that it was inspired by a Paganini Caprice, I think no. 5.

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It was Steve Vai indeed. He wrote "Eugene's Trick Bag". I (finally, after over 15 years of searching) bought my own copy of the movie and the credits say (and I quote):

Eugene's Trick Bag
Written and performed by Steve Vai
Reprise of Turkish March arranged by William Kanengiser

William Kanengiser performed the Turkish March from the beginning of the movie (in the classroom), but not the electric guitar bluessy version from the duel. Ry Cooder indeed performed most of the other songs during the movie (but not all), including Ralph's part from the Head Cutting Duel, but Eugene's Trick bag was performed entirely by Steve Vai.

By the way, current "coaching" entry in the trivia appears to be inaccurate. Again quoting from the credits:

Guitar Coach for Ralph Machio: Arlen Roth
Classical Guitar Coach: William Kanengiser

This bit of trivia though is correctly recorded on Arlen Roth's Wiki entry.
Roofred (talk) 12:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Trivia

I removed the following piece from the Trivia section:

"The guitar used by Vai is not one of his signature Ibanez guitars- he does not own a red one, nor does he use blonde neck guitars (or, more accurately, maple necks)."

It's not particularly notable that the guitar he played in the duel wasn't one of his signature Ibanezes (is that the correct pluralization?), since at the time of filming he had either not begun endorsing Ibanez or had only recently begun doing so. Also, he does play maple-necked guitars (there are several in the "Machines" section of his website). Finally, he does own several red guitars, which are also featured on his site - I would love to know where that one came from. I was thinking maybe the person who put this in meant to imply that Vai doesn't own a red Ibanez, but this would hardly be worth mentioning not only because the guitar in the film isn't an Ibanez - which was the point of that piece of trivia in the first place - but also because he DOES own a red Ibanez. Perhaps someone could take another look at that scene and replace the part I took out with some information on the guitars that WERE used? I don't remember if the kid's guitar was a Tele or a Broadcaster, or if Vai's was a Jackson, Kramer, or some other brand. Intooblv 01:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

70s tele, is my guess, based on the logo. Definitely not a broadcaster. The store owner asked for $400 for the amp and the Fender. Eugene's watch was given as payment. But since we later learn that a revolver was also part of the deal, this would mean that the two made out pretty good by today's pawn shop prices (pignose amp, about $60-75, no-name revolver, maybe $175-200, 70s tele, not that one would be found at a pawn shop, would go for around $4-5000 in good shape if it could be). Ralph Macchio, if you're reading this, in that scene where the two are walking in the pouring rain and the guitar is getting drenched, please tell me the director used a 'stunt guitar'. C d h (talk) 15:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

(15 years later...)

Vai's guitar was a custom Charvel that Grover Jackson gave him (and may have made himself) before the film, that latterly came into the collection of the Hard Rock Cafe company. The production also cobbled up some "stunt" guitars for Vai to drop (because he wasn't about to drop that nice Charvel). There's a lengthy article about its somewhat hazy history at Guitar World magazine here: https://www.guitarworld.com/features/steve-vai-crossroads-jackson

I'll add this to the article at some point, perhaps when I do the work on the duel section that I've promised myself I'll do for years. I've no idea what kind of Telecaster Macchio plays. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 21:58, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

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Removed contradiction

The article said Ry Cooder played all Macchios guitar parts, I changed it according to the following lines in the article and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Vai section Movies and http://jotomas.multiply.com/video/item/2. Steve Vai played both sides of most of the duel, effectively beating himself. Roger491127 (talk) 09:20, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I also added a text about the guitar worn in the rain and during most of the film.

"The Fender Telecaster Ralph Macchio carries along his hobo trek in the second half of the film is a 1970s CBS Fender with block lettering on the headstock. Very realistic for the film because not only were they affordable and easy to acquire (in the 1980s, that is), their heavy polyurethane finish made them near impervious to the tests of the road, as seen when Macchio and Seneca are walking through the rain, sleeping in barns, abandoned shacks and the outdoors."

This fact is questioned on youtube. Source: http://jotomas.multiply.com/video/item/2 Roger491127 (talk) 09:37, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

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On the duel

I've removed (from the plot section) the claim that Eugene plays Paganini. This isn't really true - the full piece ("Eugene's Trick Bag") quotes (*heavily*) from Paganini's 5th caprice, but doesn't use all of it, and there's lots of other stuff in there as well (and I think something else from Paganini). The details of the composition aren't part of the plot, and should be part of the "production" section, where I'll add it when I can find some better reliable sources. I've also removed some text, again from the plot section, about Paganini also having made a deal with the devil. That's not in the film at all, and so it's not part of the plot. Again, that should be part of the production section, and again needs a real reliable source. The Niccolò Paganini article does mention rumours of his having made such a deal, and I've asked on its talk page for a specific reference to that effect. But I do think that comparisons with the film's plot and the supposed Faustian bargains of Johnson and Paganini are so overt that adding them isn't WP:OR.

I had (but now can't seem to find) some detailed stuff about how Arlen Roth was supposed to appear as Butler, and play a fancy blues thing, but late in development they replaced him with Vai (and his neoclassical wingdingery). I'll add that when I get my references straight.

And (as I note in a reply above) Guitar World has figured out what guitar Vai was playing (and where it is now), which is worth a mention (as just a sentence), again in the production section. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 22:16, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah, Arlen Roth talks about the film at his website; he says it was Cooder, not himself, that was due to be on-screen Jack Butler. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 23:21, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

And Vai confirms the part about them filming a duel where he beats Shuggie Otis, which Roth talks about too, at: https://www.vai.com/album-the-elusive-light-and-sound/ - and Vai also confirms the title of the final duel piece, and the other pieces Butler plays during the film. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 23:25, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

And another Guitar World ref (partly quoting Roth and Vai) is here, with some other people they considered hiring to play Butler - including Keith Richards. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 00:03, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I think I'm done for now. There's some things we don't know, that I think would benefit the article, if we can find reliable sources:

• who exactly wrote Eugene's Trick Bag? Some is clearly Paganini, but about half isn't; it's well within the capability of Vai to write, but that as Kanengiser plays part of it at the beginning, what part did he have in its creation?
• who dubs for Eugene in the duel before "Trick Bag"? Conventionally people say it's Cooder, but as Roth seems to have been screwed on the credits for actually performing music in the film, it might be him.
• what guitar(s) Eugene plays, and what happened to them? The soundtrack article claimed, with no references at all (until I removed it), that it was a 1970s Tele. I've read, in unreliable sources, that there was a Squier Tele and a Fender American Tele, and maybe that Roth and/or Macchio now own them.

-- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 14:41, 22 June 2021 (UTC)