Talk:Cultural Marxism (disambiguation)

Surprised

@Howard Alexander, it's been a few weeks since I first started considering this idea, and I was about 90% through preparing an RFC to create a “Cultural Marxism” disambiguation page when I discovered that you’ve already created it. My original RFC question was: Should we create a "Cultural Marxism" disambiguation page and update the hatnote in the "Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory" article to link to it? Now I’m unsure whether I should continue with the RFC or abandon it.

If it's okay with you, I would still like to proceed with the RFC to gather support from other editors. We will need their backing to update the hatnote, and, based on prior history, there may be some resistance. 87.116.177.103 (talk) 18:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Firefangledfeathers, now that we have the Wiktionary, Books, and See also sections, is it okay to remove the "One other topic" warning you added? 87.116.177.103 (talk) 08:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

No. The point of a dab page is to disambiguate between at least three pages that a reader might reasonably look for using a given term. If there are only two such pages, it's better to use hatnotes to aid navigation. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

As written, it was multiply in conflict with WP:Disambiguation (to see how it should be done, see Venus (disambiguation)). I have gone some way towards rectifying it but it is not out of the woods yet.

• the wp:Primary topic goes first.  Done
• other articles with the same name apart from a disambiguating name or phrase are listed after a standard introductory sentence  Partly done
  • To be strictly in compliance, Marxist cultural analysis would have to be renamed to something like Cultural Marxism (Marxist cultural analysis), but that would be jumping through hoops for the sake of it and significantly impact ease of use. WP:NAR applies, IMO.  Not done
• See also, listing (only) articles that are credibly conceptually related  Done
• Nothing else. Definitely no book list, so I have removed it.  Done

All this may not survive a WP:Articles for deletion process, if someone (else) proposes it and it is accepted. The more compliant the article is with policy, the less likely it is to arise. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

(By the same logic, Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory should be renamed to Cultural Marxism (conspiracy theory), but this is not the place to discuss that idea. I will propose it formally at talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory at a later date.) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:16, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:AFD

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cultural Marxism (disambiguation). TarnishedPath^talk 06:40, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Keep or delete this article

The question has been raised at multiple talk pages as to whether this article should be kept or deleted.

• Neutral unless the underlying intent is that it be used as a trojan horse to overturn the consensus that Cultural Marxism should redirect to Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:26, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Observation: the current hatnote at Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory refers readers explicitly to Marxist cultural analysis ; if this disambiguation article continues, the default outcome would be to simplify that hatnote to use otheruses which would make it implicit. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:26, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete The long standing consensus is that Cultural Marxism refers to the conspiracy theory, and to direct readers to Marxist cultural analysis if they are interested in the actual topic. This appears to try and side-step that consensus. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 13:42, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment. A better question would be: Do we keep the DAB and update the hatnote in the CT article, or delete the DAB page? This would clarify that nobody is proposing, nor are we discussing, any changes to the CT redirect. This question should probably be raised as an RfC on the CT talk page, where more people will see it and have more time to consider the implications. In any case, there's no rush to delete the DAB, as nothing currently links to it. 87.116.177.103 (talk) 14:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Except that if we keep the dab page, the hatnote can be simplified to {{redirects|Cultural Marxism|other uses}}, which some may see as a diminution. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:28, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  There is an argument to be made that a simplified hatnote and dab would be more reader-friendly. This could also help address some of the issues with the MCA article that other editors have raised. Given that this is not a minor change, an RfC on the hatnote revision seems like a reasonable next step. If the RfC fails, I see no compelling reason to retain the dab page. 87.116.177.103 (talk) 23:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  No, an RFC is not the correct process. This disambiguation page should simply be brought to AfD. MrOllie (talk) 00:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete - this disambig was created as an ambush without forming community consensus first. It's obviously an attempt at side-stepping that process to force out the idea there's a non-fringe usage. The aim being to substantiate the conspiracy theory. No academic basis has been presented, because all the sources that could be presented have already been dealt with (see the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory talk page archives. The editors trying this should probably be barred from the topic via an ANI complaint. 101.115.128.228 (talk) 04:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:AFD

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cultural Marxism (disambiguation). TarnishedPath^talk 09:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Cultural Marxism (disambiguation) has an RfC

Cultural Marxism (disambiguation) has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. 87.116.177.103 (talk) 11:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)