Talk:Cynic (band)

Untitled

in de:cynic it is said, there was a storm which destroyed the training room (?). That had lead to the end of the band. Someone who knows? --141.53.194.251 11:25, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Incorrect. The hurricane Andrew in August 1992 destroyed Jason Gobel's home (which also housed their training facilities) and forced them to postpone the recording of Focus until 1993. In this light the above claim simply cannot be true. --SirWoland 21:40, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

North American Tour

Some of the people below are taking Wikipedia WAY too seriously! An amusing read, nevertheless. I couldn't figure out what that "Terrorizor announces such and such tour" comment was about on the bottom of this page so I changed it to the North American tour with Meshuggah. This tour is common knowledge and can be found on Cynic's website. I was too lazy to add the footnote/reference. --24.18.230.39 (talk) 21:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio reversion

It seems that on July 29, 2006, copyrighted material from allmusic.com[1] was copied into the article. I have reverted the article to the state previous to that date. --Alvestrand 07:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Cynicband.jpg

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BetacommandBot 10:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Cynicband.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Cyniclogo.gif

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Genre

Especially on Focus, I always thought of Cynic to be more of a thrash band than death metal band. Besides, the archives lists them as both a thrash and death band. Therefore, I'll be adding thrash to the genre list. Sittingonfence (talk) 22:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Spacing

I support the view of the editor from Alaska, the editor from Vancouver and the editor from Newfoundland who all agree that comma spacing is the preferred format. 209.226.190.118 (talk) 18:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the consensus. 142.177.76.36 (talk) 18:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

::Ok, so since Anger22 doesn't want me to erase the above, I'll just say that it was decided that the above users were sockpuppets and this issue is not being talked about anymore here anyways. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 21:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The associated RCU report clearly stated that the IPs who posted above were unrelated. Please do not leave false or dishonest posts that may cause a misinterpretation of a previous discussion. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 21:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I did not say those things to be dishonest. At the time I thought what I said was true. Regardless, though, even if those users are not sockpuppets (though they edited the same pages in their few edits and gave similar edit summaries and both were also similar to Niderbib) it doesn't matter. The issue is being discussed elsewhere. And the first comment on this section is an obvious lie by that IP address. What editors is s/he even talking about? No one. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 21:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

An obvious lie? It reads quite clearly. If you review the edit history of the article there were several IP edits over the course of 2 or 3 days. 1 IP was based in Alaska, 1 in Newfoundland and 1 in Vancouver. According to a geobytes search the IP editor posting the comment was based in Amherst, Nova Scotia. Several thousand miles and different ISP providers separate all of these IP editors. Multiple edits from several different editors established a consensus for the article as far as formatting goes. But 2 editors opposed the change. One editor was blocked recently for 48 hours with a warning that if he commit any more than a single rv on an article then he would be permanently blocked. The only other policy violation that took place on the page was that Landon1980 broke Wikipedia's WP:3RR policy in edit warring with the multiple IPs. For which he was not blocked. Both Landon1980 and the other edit warring user made accusations and personal attacks against User:Niderbib which turned out to be false and supported by the RCU check done on the IPs and the accused user. Do you require any more explanation? Feel free to ask and I will try and assist you. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 21:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

You may be right, though I would have no idea how to check where an IP is from. But, somehow, I'd rather think that those IPs were very crafty and knew how to make their IPs jump (which is a possible thing) thus appearing to be from different areas. Maybe a bit extreme, but it's possible. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 21:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I also find it extremely interesting that those two editors above and the editor from Alaska, the one from Newfoundland and the one from Vancouver all edited the same pages. Or at least, two of the same pages. There is a high number of coincidences here. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

??All edited the same pages? The Vancouver editor has several thousand edits dating back a few years? The IP also seems to have quite a few thank you notes from a few administrators for their work fighting against vandalism and particularly against spam links on Wikipedia. Either way, the article has been locked from any contributions from anonymous editors. The makings of a good discussion for this minor issue were started (albeit in the wrong place) at the WP:METAL talk page. This discussion, however, degenerated rather quickly into a non-constructive debate which will accomplish nothing as it is relating only to heavy metal pages and not to music articles as a whole. Even if some sort of consensus came from the discussion it couldn't be used because whatever formatting rule is set for the musician infobox it has to apply to all genres. Keeping the discussion on the WP:METAL page is wasting a lot of time that could be used in a more constructive way. But I digress. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 22:14, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I meant, they all happened to edit the same few pages recently. Anyways, indeed. As for the other stuff, I have no idea what to say. That might be something you would want to mention at WP:METAL. I've already said my piece there. I happen to think I'm a pretty good editor and the only area I've had problems in is with the genre delimiter issue. All my blocks are because of that issue. A conclusion needs to be reached so that there is no room for arguement and everyone follows the same rule. However, I have no clue as to how such a conclusion could be reached. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I already commented in the discussion that that post was in the wrong place. All the editors involved would have to learn how to compromise rather than see it as black or white. The final solution must have uniformity across all music projects and it must not discriminate against any reader. I have read that complex coding can have a negative/harmful effect on visually impaired Wikipedia readers who are forced to use a reading software to assist them in their use of the encyclopedia. Simple punctuation does not hamper these readers in any way. So far I have not seen this point brought up in any of the most recent discussions although it has been brought up in other forums where the use of code has been limited. I can not verify if this is true as I do not use a reader assist software. If it were true then that should take importance over anyone's cosmetic peeves. But, like I said, I do not use any assistance software. As for this article I would question why someone has added Jazz fusion? I will assume it was added by someone who doesn't know what jazz fusion is. That is a very common mistake on Wikipedia. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 22:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't add that, but I assume that the person who did, did it under the assumption that Focus is Jazz fusion as it fuses element of Jazz with metal, which fits the definition of Jazz fusion. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It might fit the unreferenced/original research/incorrect Wikipedia definition of what jazz fusion is. But it does not fit in with what 'jazz fusion' is. Again, a common Wikipedia mistake. Wikipedia is abundant with errors. This is is pretty low on the spectrum. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:14, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed to all. Wikipedia has plenty of problems. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Cynic signed to Seasons of Mist

It sucks that nobody can edit the article until May 10. Oh well. If I remember, I will post that information on the page. Here is where I found that out:

Cynic Signs to Seasons of Mist: News @ metalstorm.ee

BT^C 23:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

That article and the Cynic Myspace also mention the band has a new guitarist, Tymon Kruidenier who will be doing death vocals. Demonofthefall (talk) 10:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks for that information. I'm going to visit their myspace profile soon equipped with this information. BT^C 21:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm Blocked

Dude, this sucks why can't I edit the page? Why is it blocked? Festering Rat Corpse (talk) 14:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

You're not the only one. Everyone is blocked from editing it. It's not personal or something. There was some edit warring on this page so they blocked everyone from editing it for a while. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I need to bring attention to an edit conflict that has lasted ever since September 19 (Eastern Time) and involves myself and two anonymous users.

Here's what's happening. In the genre section of the infobox, it states that Cynic's early demos are categorized as thrash metal. It used to be there uncontested. But an anonymous user took that away. I reverted that. He reverted my edit. What happened next was that I put the genre down and specified that the early demos for Cynic were thrash metal. The edit came with a source also. The anonymous user had enough guts to revert that edit, too, stating that the source didn't state the early demos were thrash metal (false) and that the source was unreliable. So, I reverted his edit stating that the source did indeed state that the early demos were thrash. What's next is that another anonymous user (maybe same guy, but probably another computer) also had the guts to revert that edit, stating that the source was unreliable. I reverted that, and as of the time this comment was written, that reversion I initiated is the most recent edit to the Cynic (band) article.

I want to get this edit conflict clarified because I simply don't get why that source wouldn't be a reliable source. Therefore, I want something to happen so that that part of the article can stay put. In case you didn't get my explanation in the first paragraph, here are the edits that I was talking about.

The time expressed is UTC time.

Time Edit Took Place	User	Edit Summary
2:24, 20 September 2008	66.222.224.140
2:31, 20 September 2008	Backtable	(Cynic's early demos were thrash metal.)
02:39, 20 September 2008	66.222.224.140
03:03, 20 September 2008	Backtable	(Here's a source for my claim.)
05:57, 20 September 2008	66.222.224.140	(Undid revision 239716797 by Backtable (talk) Source dosn't state that the band is thrash, and bands are noy good sources) [sic]
19:40, 20 September 2008	Backtable	(Undid revision 239737203 by 66.222.224.140 (talk) If you read the source, it did state they were thrash indeed.)
05:35, 21 September 2008	137.186.49.185	(Undid revision 239842511 by Backtable (talk) Missed it, sorry. Still not a reliable source)
19:17, 21 September 2008	Backtable	(Undid revision 239941652 by 137.186.49.185 (talk) 1. How is that not a reliable source? 2. Read the second paragraph!!)

I want this edit conflict solved very soon. Thanks.

BT^C 20:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

The source, from what I can tell, is either a fan page or the bands myspace. While offical sources are good for biographical reasons, when it comes to thinks like genres, many editors find them unhelpful. WP:RS says articles should use reliable, third-party, published sources. The band does not quailify as such. Futhermore, the source also state that cynic were brutal death metal, a claim which ubsurd, and the time frame which the source say cynic played the genre is too small to be notable. 137.186.49.185 (talk) 03:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay then. Since you have some credibility there about Cynic having a demo absurdly considered brutal death metal, I will leave it be. I'll probably find some other source somethime that says Cynic's early demos are thrash metal. Encyclopaedia Metallum says the same thing, but since wikipedia does not include that site as a reliable source, I can't source that. BT^C 22:05, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Yet another genre conflict. This sucks.

Wiki Ibis and several anonymous users have edited the genre sectino of the infobox. This has been going on for a few days. That is ridiculous. I'm taking no part in this conflict. All I'm going to say is that it should be resolved soon, especially considering the fact that this isn't the first genre dispute on this page. BT^C 22:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Roadrunner demo

Why hasn't someone made a page for it? Doesn't it have a song not released on focus on it? Or am I wrong? Also it would seem the other two songs are very different sounding from the final product. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.210.144.196 (talk) 03:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, you are right about there being a song on the demo that was not on their album Focus (Pleading for Preservation, track 3). However, there it is kind of hard to have an article about any band's demo created and it actually surviving, because of some rule of wikipedia (it isn't impossible, though). I will probably try it out sometime soon. I don't know when, but it would be hopefully soon. BT^C 21:48, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

David Senescu merge

I am for it. Not only are all four sentences unsourced, but I don't even know if he was a permanent member of either Cynic or Exivious. The article just says that he joined Cynic for their reunion tour. Also, the entirety of his stint with Exivious is stated as his being replaced by Tymon Kruidenier. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 23:25, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Overhaul

I've spent hours editing the article with Paul Masvidal this afternoon. He did not do this himself as he did not want a conflict of interest to occur (although it isn't specifically forbidden for folks to work on articles about themselves, as long as bona fide secondary sources are the basis), so I walked him through all changes being bolstered by refs. I purged extraneous, cluttered info, and added various wikilinks and refs. There is no OR. Some of my edit summaries will be meaningless as they are in-jokes I stuck in there in error as I spent the afternoon using one screen for editing, with around 10 open windows (including skype). I'll continue working on this as time permits. Hope the article has been improved. Cheers, A Sniper (talk) 02:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

You appear to be doing a fine job. Thanks. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 03:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Backtable - I appreciate the vote of confidence. A Sniper (talk) 04:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Genre

As I've stated above, I did a major editing session with Paul Masvidal. He changed the genres to the self-identification of what the band is today: progressive rock, with elements of jazz, experimental and technical. Yes indeed they started out within much heavier circumstances, but the article needs to be based on what the act is today - an all-encompassing musical journey. With Tymon now out of the band, even the so-called death growls are permanently gone. In any case, the genres listed are what came from the refs provided, so as not to create a conflict of interest for Paul. Thanks. A Sniper (talk) 14:18, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

There needs to be some mention in the genres of the band's previous tech-death sound, otherwise you're misrepresenting 50% of the music the band has so far produced.86.160.118.150 (talk) 20:25, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

There is a musical style section to explain said subject. Also, this review of Traced in Air from seaoftranquility.com. describes Focus as "an important technical jazz/death metal release", so that could be of use. A Sniper has stated that he likes the genre line-up like this, since his above comment states that he has worked with Paul Masvidal on this Wikipedia page and that the genres displayed represent the sources supplied. The "technical death metal" labelling is something I have been thinking about, and how it is not in the infobox (it has been, but through a masked link). In the meantime, though, genres are separated by commas and not spacers; the comma format is endorsed at Template:Infobox album#Genre. Thank you. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 20:56, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

New photo

Paul Masvidal just sent me a new photo from this year that he asked to be used to replace the one shot in Paris in 2010. Hope everyone likes it! :) A Sniper (talk) 22:49, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

I approve. Backtable ^{Speak to me}_{concerning my deeds.} 23:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

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