Talk:Darul Huda Islamic University

Supposed changes by COI editor

Islam in India template should be added in this article since DHIU lies in the Universities category in Islam in India template. Tinkvu (talk) 18:55, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

No replies got! I'll be adding it myself if no responses got. Tinkvu (talk) 06:15, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Other required changes:

Darul Huda Islamic University (abbreviated as DHIU) is a private Islamic educational institution private islamic university, situated in Malappuram, Kerala, in 1986. It was then registered as a madrasa under the Societies Registration Act.

From 2009, it has claimed been upgraded to the status of a private Islamic university; and from 2010 it has been affiliated to the League of Islamic Universities, Cairo, Egypt. However the UGC, India's only official body with the power to accredit universities, does not list it as a university.^{[This sentence is useless. Since, as a Private Islamic University, it doesn't need to be accredited by the India's official body, UGC. DHIU has affiliations from other Islamic bodies.]} It offers both undergraduate and postgraduate programs. Tinkvu (talk) 06:22, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

You propose to remove sourced information and state DHIA's claims in the voice of Wikipedia. This is not appropriate. Rather than continue to waste your time and that of other editors, I strongly suggest that you devote your efforts to getting your institution accredited as a university with the appropriate official body (the UGC). Until you do so, DHIA's claims to university status have no more validity than those of any diploma mill. And no, acceptance by the League of Islamic Universities is not a valid source for university status. Hunc (talk) 13:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

References

Misleading title - Should be changed

I propose that the article name "Darul Huda Islamic University" is misleading. The term 'university' should be removed from the title as it is not recognized by the state of Kerala or the Government of India as a private university. TheRainManl (talk) 11:31, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 25 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The discussion indicates a consensus that the current title is the best fit along the WP:CRITERIA. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:27, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

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Darul Huda Islamic University → Darul Huda al-Islamiya – Reasons

• The title "Darul Huda Islamic University" is misleading as it is not a government recognized university. By the law of India, foreign entities/bodies cannot give the status of university to an institution inside India. That power rests with the GOI alone (and not with the instiution also so that it can "upgrade" itself to an university).
• It is not recognized by the state of Kerala or the Government of India as a private university.
• It only presents itself as an "university" in its official website and in media handouts (thus appear as such in some local news reports). The title "university" appearing in the media from the Middle East is play on the word "جامعة".
• It does not figure among the list universities in Kerala by GOI or GOK.
• This institution technically is a "madrasa" or an "arabic college" or a private "oriental title college"
• High probablity of paid editing by a PR team. There seem to a large effort to project the Wiki page of the insitution as an "university'.
• All private universities in India need accreditation from GOI TheRainManl (talk) 11:55, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

TheRainManl (talk) 11:55, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Legaly an NGO

• Registered WitH Registrar of Societies as "DARUL HUDA ISLAMIC ACADAMY" Government of India.

• Recognizability – The title "Darul Huda Islamic University" will lead to confusion for a person only familiar with the subject (although not necessarily an expert in area).
• Consistency – The title is not consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles (like other madrasas or Arabic Colleges in India).
• Naturalness – The title is not the one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. That one is "Darul Huda" or "Darul Huda Chemmad"
• On official name - Syrian Arab Republic or Syria ? Democratic People's Republic of Korea or North Korea ? Islamic Republic of Iran or Iran? Use common name (i e Darul Huda).

TheRainManl (talk) 13:09, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. In terms of recognizability, a Google News search for "Darul Huda al-Islamiya" returns no results. For naturalness, I'm not sure how the assertion that "Darul Huda" or "Darul Huda Chemmad" would be the natural title are in support of moving the article to "Darul Huda al-Islamiya". The legal name and status is irrelevant to the article title. We have plenty of article titles that are ostensibly misleading names (Democratic Kampuchea, Democratic Republic of the Congo). "Darul Huda Islamic University" seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME, and any discussion on the legal and technical status of the university can and should be laid out in the article.--Cerebral726 (talk) 13:25, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Our policy WP:UCRN is clear in this and mentions, Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources). That said, we get 48,200 hits for Darul Huda Islamic University and only 819 hits for Darul Huda al-Islamiya on Google. It is clear that the current title is prevalent and more common name. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 13:56, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Reply

• Democratic Kampuchea and Democratic Republic of the Congo are named so that it can be distinguished from Kampuchea (Khmer for Cambodia) and Republic of the Congo. There are no institutions with similiar name near Darul Huda, Chemmad.
• Why is Darul Huda Islamic University not included in List of institutions of higher education in Kerala or Template:Universities in Kerala (Private University (India) or List of universities in India)?
• I also support moving the article to "Darul Huda" or "Darul Huda, Chemmad" as Cerebral726 and The Aafī have suggested (instead of "Darul Huda al-Islamiya" or "Darul Huda Islamic University")
• Is there any other article of an educational institution in India with name "university" and but not recognized by the GOI?

• Recognizability – The title "Darul Huda Islamic University" will lead to confusion for a person only familiar with the subject (although not necessarily an expert in area).
• Consistency – The title is not consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles (like other madrasas or Arabic Colleges in India).
• Naturalness – The title is not the one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. That one is "Darul Huda" or "Darul Huda Chemmad"

TheRainManl (talk) 05:06, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

The institute itself uses the name Darul Huda Islamic University and uses DHIU as its acronym. That's what has been established by general English sources as its common name. Wikipedia titles don't mean to say such as institute is recognized by GoI or any other government. For arguments sake, we do not use official name for Darul Uloom Deoband as well because the title Darul Uloom Deoband is its common name. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 06:01, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

I have not suggested moving the article to "Darul Huda" or "Darul Huda, Chemmad", and neither has The Aafi so please do not say that we have. I stated that your assertion that the natural title would be "Darul Huda" or "Darul Huda Chemmad" does not support your original move request. Also, please refrain from WP:BLUDGEONing. We do not need to satisfy your understanding of Wikipedia Naming Policy nor your opinions on what should or should not be called a university. Cerebral726 (talk) 13:23, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Reply

• Institute itself uses the title "university", but it is not the English common name. The common names are Darul Huda or Darul Huda, Chemmad.
• What about all other problems with title (see above) ? Kindly see archived parts of this talk page for support from a number of Wiki users.

TheRainManl (talk) 06:44, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

There are a number of Darul Huda's around such as Darul Huda, Telangana; Darul Huda, Chennai and several others. Darul Huda best fits as a disambiguation page. Darul Huda, Chemmad gets only 1450 hits and the current title has over 48,200 hits on Google. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 07:27, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Reply

Wikipedia:Article_titles#Use_commonly_recognizable_names says "inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources". From the above discussion it also seems that the characteristics Recognizability, Precision and Consistency should take precedent over the alleged Naturalness.

• Recognizability ❌
• Naturalness (alleged)
• Precision ❌
• Concision ✅
• Consistency ❌

TheRainManl (talk) 04:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Nowhere has it been established that "Darul Huda Islamic University" is an inaccurate name. You're doing nothing but bludgeoning. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 06:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Reply

The Economic Times

" It is precisely for this that the distinction between a regular university established under a Central, Provincial or State Act and an Institution Deemed to be University is maintained in the UGC Act. A deemed to be university can certainly award degrees but, cannot use the word 'university' by virtue of Section 23 of the UGC Act." TheRainManl (talk) 04:40, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

TheRainManl, I don't think this has anything to do with Darul Huda Islamic University because it has nothing to do with UGC, and it hasn't been established under a Central, Provincial or State Act. It has affiliations with League of Islamic Universities and that league has no problems with it using the word "university". Nonetheless, we are not discussing the legality of this name here. ─ The Aafī (talk) 04:29, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.