Talk:Death of Caylee Anthony/Archive 1

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Current Event Status?

Shouldn't this be marked as a "Current Event"? After all, it has been in the news cycle almost daily on many networks. CNN has Nancy Grace and Jane Valez-Mitchell discussing it as a major segment just about nightly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmccann (talk • contribs) 08:06, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Why should anyone care?

Please englighten me... I don't mean to be rude, but why the f*** is this on national news? Who actually cares about this? There are thousands of these cases across the country, and what is so significant about this case that it deserves so much unnecessary attention? - you should care! -

Missing White Woman Syndrome. That's why 82.39.138.148 (talk) 08:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

This is not a forum for discussion on why or why not stories are picked for national news, but a discussion of content for the article. Rhoadrunner (talk) 19:55, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

It wouldn't be significant if it was just another missing person case. She was gone a month before anyone reported it. I agree that the Missing White Woman Syndrome has a lot to do with it too, but people get upset when parents kill their own children as it is suggested (well, charged) may be the case. If it hadn't been a mystery for so long, like if someone confessed to the killing, it would have been out of the news circuit within a week. There have been more tragic children's death this year, like the man who went crazy and threw his three kids off a bridge...when was the last time we heard about him? The story was already over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.246.13.232 (talk) 21:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

It's somewhat unusual in its details. There just seem to be endless odd angles. Why it's getting national attention is for the same reason as always - someone's making a buck off it. Broadcasters know people will tune in. The local TV news in the area has essentially turned into "The Caylee Report". Once in a while they break in for weather and commercials. Every time the cops clear their throat they interrupt porgramming for a "News Bulletin" - she's still dead but apparently local stations are convinced pointless minutiae about the case can't wait until the regular news time slot.TheDarkOneLives (talk) 04:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I see your point; and I felt the same way the first time I saw Nancy Grace's coverage of the case (Grace's treatment of this case is a whole different topic...) However, once I read into it a bit, I couldn't stop! It's a very puzzling mix of strange twists and turns, and every new bit of information is veiled by a very thick and obvious layer of mistruths and zipped lips.

What I find generally disturbing is the amount of hooplah going on in Orlando outside the Anthony home - riots, vigils, heckling - which proves that "sensationalist news" will never die - and that there are a lot of people out there who thrive off of obsessing over the messed-up lives of others - even people they don't know from Adam. I wonder how many of the people camped out by the Anthony home have their own children waiting for them at home, or spouses, loved ones, etc. - while they hover like vultures over the lives of complete strangers? Sorry, I think that's just sad.... itinerant_tuna (talk) 09:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

It's the story about a young pretty mom who's busy meeting with her million-dollar dream team to help her get away with murdering her angelic 2-year-old kid. I think this is what's getting under everybody's skin. Cybersecurityczar (talk) 20:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

"Pretty"? That's a stretch. To me she looks anorexic, and not especially attractive in any case. Actually, the fascination is in the soap opera aspects of the story. It reminds me of the Susan Smith case a bit, except instead of a black abductor, it's a hispanic abductor; and instead of a car, it's a garbage bag. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 21:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I added a link to Missing White Women Syndrome and it was deleted in minutes, even though this case is the dictionary definition of that occurrence. What gives? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.126.167 (talk) 07:38, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Details of investigation

Some of the baffling details of the Caylee Anthony investigation:

• Caylee's grandparents have organized a massive media campaign to search for the missing girl, but they feel that Caylee's mother has good reason to withhold information that would aid in that search.
• Friends of the mother recall her relationship with Caylee as a caring one, never violent, and there was no documented history of abuse or neglect. The mother was interested in photography and had taken hundreds of photos of Caylee, many of which she posted on MySpace. However, many of these she later deleted.
• If the mother did not want Caylee, she showed a level of responsibility in discussing giving Caylee up for adoption to a girlfriend who could not have babies and promised loving care for the child. However, the mother later claimed that the grandmother would forbid this.
• In Orlando County Sheriff's Dept interviews released to the public, a neighbor and former schoolmate of Casey Anthony contacted police after the case was reported in news on July 17, saying that she had received a phone call from Casey Anthony on July 9, 2008, during which she could hear Caylee talking to Casey, and that during the call she had offered to lend money to Casey. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRxEBS_B1YIUrthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• This neighbor/former schoolmate stated that when they were teenagers, she had approached Casey when Casey was pregnant and offered to adopt Casey's baby, and that Casey had thanked her but had not taken her up on her offer. (This was reported in some media as Casey having sought to give up her child for adoption.)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRxEBS_B1YI Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• The neighbor/schoolmate told authorities that she believed Caylee could be buried in woods near the Elementary School where they had played as children, down the street from their families' homes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRxEBS_B1YI Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• When the sheriff's department followed up requesting telephone records from this young woman to confirm the call, she said that she had been mistaken, it was not her friend Casey Anthony who had called but another acquaintance named Casey W. She said that she did not know Casey W.'s current address and that Casey W's phone had been disconnected, that she had never had a driver's license, so could not be found. Neither phone records nor an interview with Casey W. by police were released in evidence documents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vqe4jQ7vA&feature=relatedUrthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• In interviews with a tabloid magazine, the same neighbor/former schoolmate was quoted as saying that she and another friend had buried their deceased pets in woods on Suburban Drive when they were children and that Casey had accompanied them on these occasions. She was quoted as saying when she heard about Caylee's remains being found in that area she believed Casey might have killed Caylee and buried her there in the same manner the pets were buried. This was reported in some media as Casey herself having used that area as a pet cemetery for her pets as a child. Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• Caylee had allegedly been missing for 31 days before being reported missing to Orlando police by the grandmother. Casey Anthony claimed that she had been trying to find the child on her own during that time but witnesses stated in police interviews that Casey had never told them that Caylee was missing.Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• Casey Anthony told authorities she had last seen Caylee when she dropped her off with a babysitter named Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez at a specific apartment complex on June 17, 2008, and apartment records showed a person by the name Zenaida Gonzalez looking at apartments there on that day, but the woman stated she did not know Casey Anthony or Caylee. The woman sued Casey Anthony in civil court for defamation. Some media reports indicated that Casey had given a second story in which Caylee had been taken from her at an Orlando park by the nanny and the nanny's sister, and that the two had given Casey a script to follow in talking to police.
• Photographs of the victim's mother Casey Anthony at an Orlando dance club called Fusian participating in her boyfriend's DJ events only days after Caylee was allegedly missing, were broadcast on local and national television nearly every evening during the first year of the case. Photos of Casey partying with friends on her 21st birthday more than a year before the disappearance were also heavily broadcast in the media for more than a year, and characterized as Casey partying after Caylee's disappearance.
• During the first weeks Caylee Anthony was allegedly missing, the mother got a tattoo that read "La Bella Vita."
• Casey met socially with friends and was living with a new boyfriend Tony Lazzaro and his roommates during the 31 days that she claims Caylee was missing and during which no other witnesses claim to have seen Caylee.
• The grandmother claimed in 911 calls that the mother's car smelled like it had had a dead body in it, but later said that the smell could have been from old pizza that had been in the car for weeks in a tow lot.
• Evidence hearings preceding the Casey Anthony murder trial were held in Orlando County court (Orlando, Florida) during the month of March and April 2011. These were broadcast on some Orlando television news stations (such as WFTV) and are available for viewing on the internet, as are the evidence documents and witness interviews transcripts, which are released publicly under Florida's "Sunshine" law. Urthcreature (talk) 06:37, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• A research group from the Oakridge National Laboratory in Oakridge Tennessee doing research in the chemicals emitted during human decomposition performed "air sampling" tests (which they call Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy) in the trunk of the car that Casey Anthony had been driving. The lead researcher stated that some chemical compounds had been found in the sample which he considered to be "consistent with a decompositional event" (human was not specified)(out of an array of many chemical compounds that his group consider the signature profile of human decomposition), that about 40% of the possible chemicals from decomposition were not present in the air sample, and that chloroform was present in the air sample. During evidentiary hearings the defense argued that chloroform had also been found in one of the research group's "control" samples (carpet from another vehicle not related to the case). In the evidentiary hearings in April 2011, Dr. Kenneth Furton, a biochemist and nuclear chemist and expert in chromatoscopy and mass spectrometry and forensics for the FBI, NSF, and DOD, stated that all five of the chemical compounds cited by the Oakridge National Laboratory could have been caused by the household garbage that was in the car trunk, including a used pizza box, stained paper towels, soda cans, shoe cleaner, and other items. Dr. Furton also cited various leading studies in the science that showed there was not a consensus among studies in the field regarding which chemical compounds were typical of human decomposition.
• The prosecution witness from the Oakridge National Laboratory stated that the entemologist studying fly larvae which had been found on stained paper towels in the defendant's car trunk provided the paper towels to the Oakridge National Laboratory for air sampling. Dr. Arpad Vass, lead scientist in research on the chemical emissions of human decomposition at Oakridge National Laboratory in Tennessee, stated he believed the air sample from the paper towels to be consistent with adipocere (waxy substance produced during decomposition of fatty acids), and that the towels also had chemical compounds from marijuana on them. In April 2011, Dr. Kenneth Furton argued the decomposing material on the paper towels could be animal fat as the paper towels had been discarded with a used pizza box and other household trash in the car trunk, and that the chemical signature of the air sample from the used paper towels was consistent with the decomposition of any fatty acid, including from meat or dairy products, as well as from other products that were found in the garbage in the car.Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• An FBI laboratory report released in evidence documents said that one hair found in the car trunk which they believed to be Caylee's displayed characteristics consistent with postmortem hair banding.
• Evidence documents released during the case indicated a Disney bag found next to Caylee's remains contained a gatorade bottle that had a syringe and liquid inside it. FBI laboratory reports and emails indicated the bottle and syringe contained steroids and chloroform, and that a 5 inch long dark caucasian head hair found with or in the Disney bag was not from Casey or Caylee. According to the FBI laboratory documents, hair from several of the crime scene investigators was compared but none of them were found to be the source of the hair.Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• FBI laboratory documents and emails released in the case indicated the FBI forensics laboratory found DNA from two individuals on the duct tape found on Caylee's skull, and neither DNA sequence was from Casey or Caylee. One of the sets of DNA was determined to be from an employee of the lab, the other was inconclusive/partial but Casey, Caylee and the Anthony family were excluded as possible sources.Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• The grandmother said that Caylee never had a father, he passed away recently, he had started a new family by the time Caylee was born, and that it had been agreed that the father would not be involved with Caylee. However, she said she cannot remember his name, and his identity remains a mystery. (DNA profiles released by the FBI in the course of the case excluded immediate family members in terms of paternity. .)
• Casey Anthony first told police that she dropped off Caylee on June 9, and Cindy Anthony also named this date, but this date was revised when home video showed Caylee had visited her great grandfather with her grandmother for Father's Day on June 15, 2008.
• According to the research group from the Oakridge National Laboratory who performed a new air sampling procedure (called Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy) in the trunk of the car that Casey Anthony had been driving, traces of chloroform were found. Evidence of internet searches conducted for chloroform were allegedly found on a laptop computer of the Anthonys' which Casey Anthony had used both at her family home and at friends' homes where she had been staying. Cindy Anthony, Caylee's grandmother, said in interviews that she remembered looking for information about "chlorophyll" at one time on the computer.Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• Orlando media outlets reported that computer searches on the laptop used by Casey Anthony also contained internet searches for the term "neck breaking". However, photos from Casey's "photobucket" account also show one of her friends in a T-shirt with the name "Neckbreakers" on it, reportedly the name of a truck club. Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• While dozens of volunteers from across the U.S. joined investigators in organized searches for Caylee's body in Orlando, the grandmother insisted that Caylee was alive and possibly in Texas, Mexico, or Puerto Rico. Cybersecurityczar (talk) 20:41, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
• Staff of the elementary school located across the street from the area where Caylee Anthony's remains were later found on Suburban Drive made reports in August and October 2008 to police regarding a man who parked on school property and was seen going in and out of the woods on Suburban Drive with a shovel (near where the remains were later found). The man stated in police interviews that he had been searching for Caylee's remains and that he had found a bag of stuffed animals and a father's day balloon in the woods but that police did not take the items in as evidence. A broken Winnie the Pooh balloon was later found in the woods in the general vicinity of Caylee's remains.Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• Prosecution witnesses alleged that the area where Caylee's remains were later found was under water during the searches and therefore unsearchable. One participant in a search stated that she had searched the area where the remains were later found and had not seen the remains. A water study released in evidence indicated that the specific location where Caylee's skull and remains were found ("Area A") would have had only up to 6 inches of water at the highest water point (during a ten day period in August 2008), and otherwise little to no water, but that some other areas nearby would have had more water.

Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

• Despite hundreds of volunteers searching for remains of Caylee, including with dogs, as well as protesters and television crews frequenting the Anthony family's street and neighborhood starting in July of 2008, Caylee's remains were not officially found until Dec 11 of 2008, in a location just down the street and around the corner from the family home, just a few yards into trees along a neighborhood street. The location was just yards from the fences of neighborhood houses. Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
• A meter reader called a tip line and the Sheriff's department on three occasions in August 2008 stating he had seen something suspicious located under a board that was leaned against a fallen tree in the trees on Suburban Drive, where the remains were later found. But when officers responded to the man's call they did not find anything that they thought was suspicious. The meter reader stated that the officer did not look thoroughly and was dismissive toward him. In December 2008, the meter reader called again after allegedly seeing the victim's skull and the remains were officially found. The defense argues that the remains must have been placed in the location after the defendant was in police custody.Urthcreature (talk) 05:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Suggestions for this article

Some possible specific info-gathering ideas: Cybersecurityczar (talk) 18:30, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

• A timeline for Caylee and Casey, including "follow-the-money" details (with references).
• A timeline or Gantt chart of the investigation, police procedures, and pre-trial activities.
• A timeline of statements made to the media by the Anthony family and their representatives.
• A timeline of actions taken by those responding to the story (i.e., the bail bondsman, the psychics, the blogger searcher, the Craigslist protesters).
• A backgrounder on the Anthony family centered around Caylee and Casey.
• A round-up of professional opinions about mental health issues (perhaps linked directly to what is observed).
• A list of iconic images or moments (for example, the shot of Casey wearing a "Have You Seen Me?" t-shirt when she was rearrested at her parents' home)
• A list of witnesses (with what they knew and when they knew it) Cybersecurityczar (talk) 19:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
• Information on the father, and his reaction to this situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.31.132.10 (talk) 10:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

As of April 2011: Unfortunately when people add any of this information to the article, it gets removed, despite citations (info direct from the evidence documents and official witness statements to provide the timeline, sequence of events, etc.) Someone removes all the facts people try to add, leaving only a few lines about Casey Anthony. Wish there was a way to prevent this removing and rewriting. I personally would never think of removing things others have added, even if it has been partially removed by others and is left in fragmented form, I leave it just like that, I would never rewrite what others have written much less remove. I only add (citing the evidence item). It's strange when anyone presumes to "summarize" the case for others and exclude facts. This is still happening with this article, unfortunately. The article once again reflects bias. Urthcreature (talk) 20:01, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

they just found her body. i live a block away. there are helicopters and news vans EVERYwhere

Whoever wrote that the girl's remains were found: A child's remanins were found, not THE Child. Plus, the grammar is just awful. I'll clean it up and find a citation. Kjscotte34 (talk) 16:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. Someone deleted it while I was writing above. Thank you. Kjscotte34 (talk) 16:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• I just added several items in the "Details" section above (April 3, 2011). I prefer not to delete anything anyone has added, preferring to simply add facts. The weakness of this article is that most of the information posted is from media stories instead of directly from the evidence documents themselves, and reflect the prosecution viewpoint characteristic of the local media coverage of this case (in my opinion). In stories from the local news stations and newspaper the defense team, defense expert witnesses, and even the Anthony family are frequently characterized negatively, defense evidence is treated dismissively if it is covered at all, and the defendant is frequently portrayed as guilty.

But the good news is, the case evidence is all available publicly (witness interviews by police, FBI laboratory reports, crime scene investigators' reports, etc, videos of all the hearings, audio of interviews and depositions, etc). Florida has a law nicknamed the "Sunshine Law" under which all of this evidence is released. Most of the evidence documents are posted on wftv.com http://www.wftv.com/news/23080678/detail.html (see Casey Anthony section, evidence archive, scroll to the bottom to start at the beginning. However some interviews are missing, such as the earliest Anthony Lazzaro and Cameron Campana interview from July 17, and Anthony Lazzaro's interview after his polygraph, as well as roommate Nathan Lesniewicz's statement, and Kiomarie Torres Cruz's statements, which can still be found on Youtube. Websleuths.com also has a great collection of links to the evidence documents as they came out in chronological order (see case resources/official documents), many also on Docstoc.com. and other public use sites.

Please be aware when reading that many comments in this discussion section are now out of date/moot. Edited to add, I noticed today (April 7 2011) that the article itself had many basic facts missing, such as the location (Orlando, Florida, United States), sequence of events and so on. In fact the majority of facts were no longer present, presumably these facts got removed or lost along the way. I added some of the sequence of events and other basic facts in the "Investigation" section. These items are documented in the evidence documents which have been released in the case. http://www.wftv.com/news/23080678/detail.html I also noticed that it was stated in the article that DNA tests in the car trunk by Oak Ridge National Laboratory had confirmed the presence of decomposition. Oak Ridge National Laboratory did not perform DNA tests, they performed air sampling tests called "LIBS" and asserted that their findings were consistent with a decompositional event having taken place in the trunk. So I added that information. Immediately following this was a sentence fragment that said that "DNA could not determine if the source was alive or dead." I'm not sure what the rest of this originally said. DNA tests, as far as I'm aware, do not show if a source is living or dead, they are used for identification. This sentence may originally have been about the hairs found in the trunk, some of which were tested by the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) for DNA to determine if they were from Caylee. The hair was also examined microscopically (visually) by the FBI laboratory and the FBI reports stated that they believed one hair showed visual characteristics consistent with "postmortem banding" which they considered to be "consistent with decomposition". I left this fragment as is. I hesitate to remove anything that anyone has posted, preferring to simply add. It does look like many portions of the article must have been removed along the way with some things left fragmented. Other parts of the article may have been written at an early stage in the case, before various evidence came out. Urthcreature (talk) 07:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC). ) p.s. thanks very much to those who started the article and have added to it.

• You have to remember, Wikipedia is not a newspaper. We can't report every detail, every day. that's the problem we're having here. You are writing far too much detail. This article has an incredible amount of information for something that isn't historically significant. You're writing this up to sound like a true crime book. As an encyclopedia, it's not the goal to be an exhaustive, all-encompassing respository of every fact or suspicion in the case. It should be an look at the event with a reasonable amount of detail to clarify what transpired. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:30, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "I prefer not to delete anything anyone has added, preferring to simply add facts." That's not the Wikipedia way. You really need to read WP:RS, WP:V and WP:BLP, as well as the style guides. Your vision of what should and shouldn't be does not mesh with policy. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:36, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Niteshift, items I added to the article were made at a time when the article contained a lot more items. There were requests here on the discussion page for more of the basic facts and chronology to be included at that time. That was the context when I added a few basic, factual items to the article, added some citations for others that were there, and corrected one major factual error that was present ( noted above). My additions were perfectly in keeping with the degree of detail of other items already included, in fact there were many more minor items included. I also added some answers to questions posted here on the discussion page (the information I added are basic facts straight from the evidence documents linked.) It was later on that the article was reduced to the extremely brief "stub" type form, with primarily only items that cast suspicion on the defendant being left. I disagree strongly with your assertion that the article at this date contains "an incredible amount of information". At the time I mentioned basic facts being missing above, I was talking specifically about some very basic facts like the location of the case, (which I added). The other talk item you quote out of context here was just me mentioning that immediately after the factual error that I corrected, there was a fragment, which I just left as it was so the author could put back in what had gotten lost. That was a courtesy by me to the author of that item and a matter of personal caution (I would hate to remove anything any other author has included). I have not added daily news items in the case as you imply. Someone else included a section about a true crime novel about the case in the article, not me. Not that I have any problem with that inclusion, I think it's perfectly relevant. It might be noted in the entry that case evidence continued to be released after the 2009 book, so the book was about the early stages of the case. You have addressed several posts here to me to the effect that the article should be brief and that facts from the case seem to you to be excessive or "like a true crime novel". You also argue that as an encyclopedia article this article should not contain "excessive" facts from the case. Those are your opinions. You posted to me here in several posts that I need to review Wikipedia guidelines, because according to you, facts should be added sparingly and with caution but can be removed for brevity and style. That is your opinion, I personally think the Wikipedia guidelines encourage the inclusion of facts by any authors who come to the page, discourage the imposal of a point of view or style by one or a few authors, and urge that removals be consertive. You also assert here that this article should not contain many facts because the topic is "not historically significant". I have never heard of that being a consideration in a Wikipedia article, and your assessment of the significance of this case is entirely your opinion. I would appreciate it if you would not make further comments to or about me on this discussion page (I never addressed you or any individual and my responses here have been to your direct posts to me.) Also, don't remove or summarize my responses. I appreciate that the one accusation about me was removed. Thank you and best regards.Urthcreature (talk) 22:04, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

• "My additions were perfectly in keeping with the degree of detail of other items already included, in fact there were many more minor items included." I hate to tell you this, but it's not just about you. You're taking this article and conversation to be very personal, which lends support to my notion that you have more than a passing interest in the topic. Everything I say isn't about you. "You also argue that as an encyclopedia article this article should not contain "excessive" facts from the case. Those are your opinions." It is the opinion of the majority of Wikpedia editors. "You posted to me here in several posts that I need to review Wikipedia guidelines, because according to you, facts should be added sparingly and with caution but can be removed for brevity and style. That is your opinion" And I stand by it, supported by the actual policies and guidelines, not my own romantic notion of what Wikipedia should be. "You also assert here that this article should not contain many facts because the topic is "not historically significant". I have never heard of that being a consideration in a Wikipedia article" There may be good reason for the fact that you haven't heard of that. That reason might be because you have a pretty narrow history of editing. This article and the other true crime type article on Joran Van der Sloot make up the bulk of your wikipedia time. Let me give you a simpler example: If I read an interview in a reliable third party publication where Obama says he prefers peanut M&M's to plain ones, I can source that. the question is: Does it belong in a bio? No, it's trivial and unimportant. To make it even more plain, there are plenty of sources about who served during World War 2. Should we list every person who did? Of course not. You also keep repeating that this is soley my opinion. Wrong. User:Drmies and I have discussed what he calls an "excruciating amount of detail and the inappropriate tone" [1]. "I would appreciate it if you would not make further comments to or about me on this discussion page" Keep hoping. As long as you are active on this article and my responses stay within the applicable guidelines, I will continue to address you or your edits any time I see fit. "Also, don't remove or summarize my responses. I appreciate that the one accusation about me was removed." I don't know what you are talking about. I will summarize in a response to you, which is perfectly allowable. I have not refactored any of your comments. In fact, if you want to make a claim like that, you had better have some diffs to back it up. In short: You don't own this article my friend, so don't act like you do. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:54, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Very little info here

I come to wiki to get the full story on these cases. There is so much information missing from this story. I specifically came here to get a detailed, chronological idea of the story and all I found out was this little girl is missing. Can someone please rewrite this? I know there are much better writers out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.227.247.206 (talk) 02:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes. When I saw the state of the article in April 2011, I tried to do my part to add basic information from the case regarding timeline, sequence of events leading to the arrest, evidence released, witness statements, chronology etc. It took a lot of time to look up all the citations in the evidence documents. I discovered today when I went to add another citation, that all of the basic information I had added to the "Investigation" section (taken directly from evidence documents and official audio interviews released in the case) has been removed, as well as many items others had added in the investigation section, leaving only a few items about Casey Anthony that someone wants presented. Unfortunately the investigation section is back to offering almost none of the basic facts and sequence of events from the investigation and the omission in itself exhibits bias. It's a shame that there's anyone who wants to keep official evidence documents and official witness statements out of the article about this case (these documents are all public under Florida law) and presume to offer their own conclusions. (As a wikipedia user, I personally don't remove anything others have posted, I only add items of official evidence. I think this is the only ethical way to contribute to the article.) One or two of the citation links I had added were left, now appearing after someone else's three-line summary of the investigation.

Viewers can find links to many of the documents and audio of the official police interviews,etc, on local Orlando news websites, for example wftv.com (go to the "Casey Anthony" section, click on "full story" under the current story about Casey Anthony, then you'll see a menu where you can select "evidence archive"), also wesh.com, myfoxorlando.com, and other Orlando news outlets, and by searching on Youtube where many members of the public uploaded the audios, Docstoc.com where many members of the public uploaded the text documents from the case, etc. Websleuths.com has a great collection of links to the evidence documents and media documents also in their Caylee Anthony/Case Resources/Official Documents section http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71772. If you start at July 16, 2008, and work forward, you can get some sense of the chronology. Stories on the local Orlando news websites tend to only present the prosecution's arguments, but you can find many of the evidence documents there. Good luck! Urthcreature (talk) 18:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Right now the only person who definitely has "The full story" is sitting in jail and she ain't talkin'. Even the local media has a hard time keeping the whole thing straight. With the cumbersome facts-only-as-approved-by-the-Borg way Wikipedia works, and the ever evolving nature of this 3-ring circus of a story, I wouldn't consider this to be the place to look for comprehensive breaking updates. Central Florida area TV station & newspaper sites are the place to look.TheDarkOneLives (talk) 19:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If you really want to know go to wftv.com or do a search. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.170.34.226 (talk) 21:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Citations desperately needed

This article desperately needs citations to reliable sources, especially where allegations are made about the parents and grandparents and what psychological conditions they might or might not have. "Numerous talk show hosts" do not count, unless they are named and the dates of the broadcasts given. Will somebody who knows more about the case please add citations, or if appropriate remove unverifiable allegations? Thanks. 71.246.213.67 (talk) 14:06, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I cannot find any citations either in this article, or from any other source setting the exact date of death for Caylee. Should her date of death listed as "Unknown"? Does anybody have a proven date of death? If not, setting the date of her disappearance would be a NPOV, because their would be an assumption that she was killed the day she was last seen. Rhoadrunner (talk) 22:37, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Smell of body

I believe this statement is false, as no one has specificly stated that the smell is from Caylee. I agree that the evidence of the body stench needs to be noted, but as I said, no one has said the smell comes from a specific person. Funnyfarmofdoom (talk) 23:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The air and hair samples that came back from the lab matched Caylee, though. She's been confirmed dead by many news outlets here in Orlando. 70.152.218.90 (talk) 00:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

News outlets are not the same as an official legal ruling. Until such as been made, legally she's still alive. Hopefully, the legal outlook also matches real life, though I personally doubt this.--ip.address.conflict (talk) 16:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Decomp smells the same no matter what. A new wording has been added. Rob^{Not an admin}  09:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of article

Requesting that this be deleted, its nothing but heresay, rumor, and original research. Hardly any citations. This is more a gossip column than an informative article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.104.32.27 (talk) 00:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Is this Cindy Anthony??TheDarkOneLives (talk) 16:27, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I do not believe that deletion is in order, but a partial, or perhaps complete rewrite is. There is plenty of heresay, and some facts are just wrong. For example, Leonard Pedilla DID NOT revoke Casey's bond, it was revoked by the Clearwater surety company. There are 431 pages of documentation released to the Orlando Sentinal via an FOIA request that should be used when deciphering facts from opinion in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.26.150.189 (talk) 04:00, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead and delete it. Thousands of people will come to Wikipedia and search for Casey Anthony. Somebody will rewrite something within a week. 71.68.15.63 (talk) 16:38, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

There is a deletion discussion for this article located at this page: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caylee Anthony disappearance. It looks like most people are voting to keep the article, rather than to delete it. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

Update: The final result of the deletion discussion was indeed to keep this article. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC))

the body found in the wooded area by the meter reader was not only but the remains of young caylee anthony. The remains was sent to the florida crime lab for investigation and the hair was possitive to the dna of young caylee anthony. more details will come later on the news and public television

This is not a biography

This is an article about the girl's disappearance, it is not a biography about the girl. This either needs to be rewritten as Caylee Anthony disappearance, or else redirected and merged into an article about her mother. Corvus cornix_talk 22:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Concur.--ip.address.conflict (talk) 23:20, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Third. --Antoshi~! ^{T | C} 20:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Disagree -- compare with the article on Elizabeth Smart, which is not a biography either. 65.248.252.99 (talk) 05:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Fourth. Per common practice to cover the event, not the person. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 03:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Interrogation tapes

Interrogation Tapes: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/09/12/ng.tot.mom.tapes.cnn?iref=mpvideosview

Caylee was found in the trunk of her mothers car. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5701503 --Root Beers (talk) 10:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

That's not what that link says. There is evidence that she was in the trunk, but her body has not been found. Corvus cornix_talk 20:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

One expert stated (Dr. Vass, Oak Ridge National Laboratory) that the air sample in the car trunk was consistent with a "decompositional event" (human was not specified). Another expert (Dr. Furton, a researcher who has worked extensively in the same science for the FBI, NSF, and DOD) stated that the chemical compounds in the air sample from the Pontiac trunk were consistent with the decomposition of the household garbage items that had been in the trunk of the car. Caylee was not found in the trunk of the car. A few of her hairs were found in the car trunk (identified by DNA). The FBI laboratory said that one of the hairs in the car trunk exhibited what they thought was "postmortem banding" (a bandmark on the hair that can result when a hair is on a body while it decomposes). The defense experts argued in hearing in April 2011 that other environmental causes can cause similar marks to a hair over time even if it originated from a live person. Urthcreature (talk) 20:15, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

NPOV Categorization?

Caylee Anthony is under the categories Category:Criticism_of_journalism and Category:Discrimination. Why? What part of the media reports are controversial? What part of it is discriminatory? --Antoshi~! ^{T | C} 20:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Good question, they should probably be removed. Corvus cornix_talk 22:30, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC))

Verification for new claims

Can someone verify some the the claims that the "mother claims casey is pathological liar" and "complains about the investigation in her facebook account"? --Kevin586 (talk) 22:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't find a source that says this, so I removed it from the article. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 15:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

2006

It is not clear what Casey Anthony did for a living from 2006 to 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.116.135 (talk) 11:59, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Her income from cheque and credit card fraud seems to have been only a small part of her total income at that time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.110.169 (talk) 11:39, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Not only that, but if Zani the Nanny did not exist, it's unknown where Caylee actually spent the night on the nights before her disappearance when Casey said Caylee was with Zani the Nanny. Another aspect of this unspeakable horror. Cybersecurityczar (talk) 21:12, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Charges

The charges are given variously. The charge of maltreating a child has gone and the number of charges of lying to police officers has gone up from four to five. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.237.201 (talk) 09:22, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

The Orlando Sentinel has the charge of grievious bodily harm to the child. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.237.201 (talk) 13:17, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Note that 70.121.198.67 and EricV89 are both the same vandal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.202.155 (talk) 14:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Not the news

We are not the news - please wait until there is verifiable sourcing for information, and only add it if it is notable. We cannot and should not be the place for minute-by-minute breaking news updates, and should not be posting anything without adequate reliable sourcing. Tvoz/talk 22:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

FORK

I think we should fork this article into three Casey Anthony, Caylee Anthony, and Caylee Anthony disappearance.--Trulexicon (talk) 06:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagree - there is nothing notable about mother or child outside of the disappearance. Tvoz/talk 06:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

One story so far: the disappearance. Edison (talk) 04:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Rename This Article Caylee Anthony Murder

Soon we need to debate how to rename this article. Do we go with Murder? Death? Or do we stick with Disappearance? Maybe we stick with Disappearance since it was the mystery of Caylee's disappearance that got all America interested in this case. Cybersecurityczar (talk) 19:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

How About "Caylee Anthony Case" or "Caylee Anthony Investigation?" However, it may soon be determined that the body found does indeed belong to her, in which case "murder" will be appropriate. Grumpy otter (talk) 14:19, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The O.J. case is called O. J. Simpson murder case. Caylee Anthony murder case should be the correct title, but only once someone has been formally charged with her murder. 68.0.226.148 (talk) 02:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

No, it's still a current event. You can deciede to change it after she or (whoever) has been convicted. --72.189.98.2 (talk) 05:20, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

It makes more sense in this case to name it for the murdered child. In O.J.'s case, he was a major celebrity, so the notability is towards him. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 10:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, they don't know if the skull is Caylee yet. If they do confirm that it is Caylee's skull, then it can be changed to Caylee Anthony murder case. Shlomo411 (talk) 09:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Agree. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 10:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

So does this now apply? They have purportedly confirmed that the remains are those of Caylee. I guess we should wait until the police officially dub the case a "murder case" to list it as such? Unabashed Fornicator (talk) 19:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

The USAToday article [2] says her death is "considered a homicide", which is kind of weaselly, especially in light of the mother already having been indicted for murder. It won't hurt to wait a few days, though. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:00, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Someone went ahead and moved it. Seems reasonable. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Legally, it has not been determined to be murder, only homicide. There is a big difference in the legal world. You can hit somebody accidentally with your car and it is homicide, but not murder. It should not be updated with murder unless there is a conviction. Rhoadrunner (talk) 21:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

The mother has been indicted for murder. Maybe for a different murder than this one? I'll concede the page was moved without consensus. You should maybe take this issue to WP:ANI and see what they have to say about it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 21:31, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

The operative word here is "indicted". She has not been convicted. All the authorities are saying is that the girl did not die of natural causes, hence homicide. If additional evidence comes in, it could go down to manslaughter. But until a conviction, it's still a "death" or "homicide". Rhoadrunner (talk) 21:36, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and posted this on WP:ANI. No matter what, we can't have 2 pages about the same event, as they will diverge and there will be confusion. As the page was moved without clear consensus, maybe an admin can nullify the move. Or they might advise taking it to arbitration or something. But you can't call it "disappearance" anymore, because she's no longer in a "disappeared" state. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 21:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

And now I've close it, since we're talking here, as we should be. I think it might be best to further redirect it to either "Caylee Anthony homicide" or "Caylee Anthony case" or just plain "Caylee Anthony", although with the latter we would probably need admin assistance as there is probably already a redirect. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 22:09, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Casey Anthony was charged with murder a while ago.TheDarkOneLives (talk) 21:49, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

While that's true, it's also true, as the red-link has pointed out, that murder has yet to be proven. There's always the chance that the mother accidentally ran over her with her car, panicked, buried her in the woods, and made up a cover story. It's been determined to be a homicide, but the trial will determine if it was a murder or not. It's different from the O.J. case in that it was obviously murder from the beginning. In this case, the authorities are not yet prepared to call it murder. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 21:55, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I really believe it's a mistake to call it the Caylee Anthony Murder. This hasn't been established legally. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Casey Anthony's attorney contacts Wikipedia to have it changed. TheDarkOneLives (talk) 05:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe, but let's not puff up our egos too much. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 06:23, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

What does ego have to do with it? I'm convinced Casey did it too like everybody else but it's premature to refer to it as murder. Even if she killed her, it might not fit the legal definition of murder. Right now it's speculation, point of view even. To label the article with the term in irresponsible if the alleged goal of Wikipedia is to be objective and factual. Right now the only fact that's been established and made public is that Caylee is dead.TheDarkOneLives (talk) 12:45, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

"Ego" has to do with the notion that anyone would care what wikipedia says about it. Now, given what you've said, what should article be renamed to? "Disappearance" is no longer operative, and "Murder" is premature. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 13:35, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

The Caylee Anthony Homicide since that's what it's been officially declared. Homicide and murder aren't synonymous.TheDarkOneLives (talk) 14:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good enough to me. Now all we need to do is be sure the guy who renamed it "Murder" is OK with that. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 14:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm fine with homicide. Sysrpl (talk) 16:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Done. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

"Caylee Anthony Case" seems accurate.Urthcreature (talk) 20:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Roy Kronk

In August of this year Roy Kronk reported a suspicious garbage bag to crimeline and the police three times. The police never properly followed up on those leads. In December, Kronk again found the bag, looked inside, a skeletal head rolled out of the bag, and he contacted the police. This leads to these questions related to his August tips:

Who the hell reports a suspicious garbage bag without looking inside the bag? Why is an unopened garbage bag suspicious? Did the bag move? Why didn't the police look inside the bag in August? Sysrpl (talk) 23:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

The article today said that the utility worker reported something back in August and nothing was done, in part because the area was flooded. That probably accounts for the utility man's doing nothing with it, as he probably couldn't reach it, or maybe he even had the good sense not to mess with it. It doesn't account for the police doing nothing, but they'll have to answer for that. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

If you're suggesting that the utility guy was involved in the crime, you had best be careful. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the utility worker specially reported a suspicious garbage bag in August, not "something". This story doesn't quite make sense. There is much to be explained about the events surrounding his tips.

Again, what is so suspicious about a garbage bag, and who would report a bag without first looking inside it? Did he merely spy the bag through the dense flooded swamp? Was he unable to lead police to the bag in August? Did the officer responding to the tip refuse to enter the swamp (i.e. The officer didn't want to get dirty)?

All I am saying is right now, the utility worker's story doesn't make sense. There are too many unanswered questions. Sysrpl (talk) 00:03, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

You need to read the USAToday article [3] and it should make more sense. Not everyone would mess with something that seemed suspicious or out-of-place to them. If he did, in fact, report it in August, the blame is on the investigators for not following up, and they probably don't want to say too much at this point because they've kind of got egg on their faces. And be careful about saying too much about this utility guy. You're connecting dots where there really aren't any, at least not yet. This is not a blog. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 00:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

And that reminds me... you're the one who moved the article without getting consensus first. You've got some 'splainin' of your own to do. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 00:18, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I did not connect dots or jump to conclusions. I asked a few questions, which are quite logical given the apparent lack of details. If anything, this would be jumping to conclusions: Sysrpl (talk) 00:33, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

"they probably don't want to say too much at this point because they've kind of got egg on their faces".

So why did you move the article without consensus and without solid proof that an actual murder occurred? (As opposed to manslaughter or whatever) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 00:59, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about the grumpiness. The move is done, as per sort-of consensus as well as sort-of legal necessity. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Orlando news reports that Kronk of the OUC attempted multiple times to interest the Sheriff's department in a suspicious garbage bag and another OUC employee attempted as well. However– if you don't live in Florida, you won't believe this– but two reasons are given by the Sheriff's department for not following up. First, "a large snake" supposedly scared a deputy away. Secondly, psychics directed investigators away from the site. Yes, that's what's being reported here, they're blaming snakes and psychics (which could be synonymous). Unencyclopedic, but there it is.

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 05:19, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I find your comment extremely insulting to snakes ;) Worlock93 (talk) 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Of course now people can listen to his August 911 calls and later interviews with police which were released in evidence. I added the links. In the August calls he reported a suspicious "round white object" that he saw sitting under a board that was leaning against the fallen tree. Urthcreature (talk) 19:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Very minor thing

I know sweet fa about this case, but I notice that in the introduction Casey is said to be born in 1986, however, in the section entitled 'Casey Anthony' (which could probably be deleted anyway) she is said to be born in 1987. Anyone with more knowledge fancy changing it? I would but it'd only be a fifty fifty guess sorry.

Here's the link to Casey Anthony's first official statement on July 16 2008, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI9UxXgLAd8 She stated her birthdate as 3/19/86.Urthcreature (talk) 20:40, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

You could go Googling for reliable sources on the subject. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:08, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Don't anybody bother asking Casey, she'll likely give ya multiple answers. GoodDay (talk) 19:30, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

That would be my assumption also. The scary part is that her parents seem to be enabling her. My theory is that the child was sacrificed in a satanic ritual. Either that, or the mother threw her out with the bathwater. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 00:03, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Or with the old pizza. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:12, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I guess now that the article has been completely revamped for some unknown reason, I know her birth year to be '86. She had her 23rd birthday in jail as the news stories revealed on March 19. Punkymonkey987 (talk) 20:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Who's the Father

Are there any sources which identify the father of Caylee? GoodDay (talk) 19:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's where Google comes in again. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:11, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Now that they have DNA, the investigators may try to identify the father, and if they do, I'd like to see that added to the article. The Anthonys always seem to shrug off the mystery of Caylee's dad. Cybersecurityczar (talk) 21:04, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Psychics

I'm dismayed how pervasive, influential, and ultimately misleading psychics have been in this case. I don't know if it's worth an encyclopedic entry, and I can imagine screams of NPOV, but for those interested, here are some links:

• http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=127990
• http://www.wftv.com/irresistible/17166127/detail.html
• http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/tips-released-in-casey-anthony-case/
• http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/psychic-gale-st-john-back-in-orlando-searching-for-caylee/
• http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/state-wants-wants-gag-order-attorney-wants-tips/
• http://www.zimbio.com/Gale+St+John/articles/2/Caylee+Anthony+Update+Psychic+Detective+Now
• http://briansprediction.com/MISSING/news/
• http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=02332164B8F4BAA8B651A52B0223EC2F?contentId=7186015&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

Superb summary:

• http://criminalbrief.com/?p=4532

Former prosecutor brags they have a psychic team in place:

• http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/transcript-from-nancy-grace-show-with-bounty-hunter-padilla/

Oops, they got that one wrong:

• http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/caseys-call-on-june-17th-pinpointed-to-airport-location/

Doncha love predictions after the event:

• http://www.prophecies.us/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1596:caylee-anthony&catid=1:predictions&Itemid=9

A very sophisticated message from a 2-year-old:

• http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/psychic-has-message-from-caylee-to-casey/

If any of this proves useful, help yourself.

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 05:54, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

There's no such thing as Psychic powers. It's just a bunch of con-artists. Anybody can talk to the dead; the dead just can't talk back. GoodDay (talk) 18:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I recall one time listening to a radio show where a so-called psychic was due to make an appearance. The psychic was running late, due to being "caught in traffic". Oops. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Giggle giggle. GoodDay (talk) 19:39, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

See! That's why we can't write the article. We think of ourselves as NPOV, which is soooo politically incorrect in this case. I was tempted to title this section Psychic Crap, but hey, why unnecessarily offend the spirits.

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 23:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Caylee Anthony Photo

Hi guys! Just wanted to remind y'all that whoever added a photo of Caylee Anthony needs to add the information to it as it appears that there is no info on it. Wikipedia is deleting the photo within a week of Dec. 20. If you get it. :| Mikeytatelive (talk) 15:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Not a biography of either Caylee or Casey

This is an article about the disappearance and murder of a child - it is not in any sense a biography of either the child or the accused killer. It is not appropriate to set this article up as if it is a joint bio - and we have BLP issues to consider as well. There should not be infoboxes (nor is it encyclopedia style to have double infoboxes in any case). This material should have been discussed before adding it - my removal of it was to return it to the form it had previously. Tvoz/talk 03:24, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Their are many other similar articles on Wikipedia which have been created as a sort of bio. And as you might notice its a very small part of the article(as of now anyway). Mos tof the article concerns the actual case. And Casey has becomed a notable face in the media and their is interest for her. I dont really see the problem, if this was the first article on wikipedia to be formed this way i might have had the same concern. But as it isnt i dont see any issues.--MarkusBJoke (talk) 21:40, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Just see Meredith Kercher as one example of many.--MarkusBJoke (talk) 21:42, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed - please take another look at Murder of Meredith Kercher which is set up exactly as I would expect Caylee Anthony homicide to be set up, as I described above, and as I edited it the other day. That article is not called Meredith Kercher - that is a redirect to the "Murder of" article - and it is not a bio of either the victim or the suspect(s). I am saying exactly that this article should follow that model, without an infobox for Casey Anthony, and her section therefore not masquerading as a BLP. In fact I question if we even have the right to use her photograph, as the fair use rationale given seems incorrect to me (it doesn't seem to be a US Federal government work so that justification I believe is wrong). All I am saying here is the Casey Anthony infobox should not be there and the section remain free of POV and potential BLP violations. Tvoz/talk 06:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Or check out..Soham murders or Madeleine McCann, their are so many other articles built up the same way. its a matter of fact..--MarkusBJoke (talk) 22:53, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're not getting what I'm saying - the McCann article confirms my point, not yours. The McCann article is titled "Disappearance of Madeleine McCann" (not "Madeleine McCann") - it is not a biography, and has no infobox, just as this one is not titled "Caylee Anthony" as it would be done if it were a biography. Both articles, as well as the article Murder of Meredith Kercher, are about the event of the victim's disappearance or death, not a biography of the victim or the suspects. All I am saying, and I am not going to bother belaboring the point any more, is that infoboxes are generally not used in the way this article is using it, and as evidence of that you can look at two of the three articles you raised. The only article that at all confirms your point is Soham murders, and I see that it has a cleanup template on it which suggests that some editor(s) didn't find it up to standard, for whatever reasons, so it may not be the best one on which to base your argument. Finally, the infobox manual of style does say that infoboxes should be placed at the top of articles, and common usage all over the encyclopedia is to have them on top. This is neither a biography of Caylee nor of Casey Anthony, and the section on Casey is odd and I think problematic, as is the photo. But,as I said, I'm not going to argue about it any more. Maybe other editors have opinions on this. Tvoz/talk 00:30, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Your new edits however looks good.--MarkusBJoke (talk) 13:30, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

And as you point out,lets end this discussion here and now and lets say that your edits on the Caylee Anthony section are a sort of a compromize that i think both of us can agree on. I really like the format its in right nowm, and your changes. Peace out.--MarkusBJoke (talk) 13:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction

Previous Statement "evidence was found that Casey searched the internet on the use of the chemical and how to make it. No dates of the search were given and they did not establish if the searches were done by Casey."

I fixed this, hope it is okay ~~Nk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.181.97.102 (talk) 11:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, time to dispute ` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.98.2 (talk) 11:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

advertisement?

err....what exactly about this article is written like an advertisement? Tad Lincoln (talk) 05:03, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering that to. i suggest the tag is removed if it isnt specified where in the article?--MarkusBJoke (talk) 15:55, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I second that. Tad Lincoln (talk) 00:07, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I had the same question myself. I think that it referred to the following sentence from the article: Larry Garrison, President of SilverCreek Entertainment, was their spokesman until he resigned in November 2008, citing that he was leaving due to "the Anthony family's erratic behavior." And ... I must admit ... when I first read that line quite a while ago, it also struck me as "advertisement"-like. Mentioning the name of his company, and a red-link one at that. But, I let it go and was not too concerned about it. But, I believe that this is where the "advertisement" tag comes from, and I am not so sure that I disagree with it. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC))

Casey's Boyfriend

The last name of Casey's boyfriend in this article seem to have been changed multiple times. Both the names Tony Lazzaro and Tony Rusciano seem to appear on Google in relation to Casey. Anyone know which one is actually her boyfriend? Tad Lincoln (talk) 00:12, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Both Rusciano and Lazzaro were Casey's boyfriends ... at different times, I imagine. The Instant Messages that the article currently refers to, however, were with Rusciano and not Lazzaro. These are the "infamous" IM's in which Casey refers to Caylee as "the little snot head" ... and thus gained much media hype. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2009 (UTC))

Lazzaro is more significant because he and Casey lived together after Caylee was last seen, and it was at his apartment where Casey's showdown with her mom Cindy started, quickly leading to the police investigation and Casey's arrest. Also, before Caylee was announced missing, he drove Casey to her parents' home, and also picked her up where she abandoned her car which was later deemed a crime scene. Cybersecurityczar (talk) 18:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Which boyfriend is "more significant" is subjective ... and up for grabs, I'd say. The points that you make about Lazzaro are true. However, the "significant" points about Rusciano are two-fold: (1) Casey's text messages / instant messages to Rusciano supposedly go to show her motive and intent ... namely, that the boyfriend did not want a child in the picture as the child was hindering their relationship and that Casey was eager to please the boyfriend's said desire; and (2) Rusciano was a police officer who lied about the relationship with Casey, speculating concern that he helped in some "cover up" or, at the very least, shed a bad light on the police department's credibility as a whole. Nonetheless, in this article, the section dealing with instant messages between Casey and her boyfriend does specifically relate to Rusciano and not Lazzaro. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:49, 21 January 2009 (UTC))

Rusiciano was the one Casey went out with a couple of times, instant messages between the two were released where he is asking her to come over but she's putting him off by saying she's waiting on the nanny who is in Oviedo feeding her dogs. Rusciano is the one who was a fellow police cadet with her ex-fiance Jesse Grund. Grund resigned from the force on June 24 2008. Rusciano was allegedly terminated by the sheriff's department for not disclosing that he had dated Casey. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1080984/Deputy-Rusciano-Termination-Memo Casey had broken up with Grund in 2006, but he stated she visited his apartment on one occasion after the alleged disappearance, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qhJ2EYZfRs and in the early days of the case after Casey's first arrest, Grund took an active role in the case, communicating with Casey's recent friends/witnesses, arranging meetings with them, going to the Anthonys' home and allegedly getting on the computer at the Anthony home, and making television appearances about the disappearance. His father also made television appearances. Casey's mother stated in police interviews that when Casey was engaged to Grund she had found him to be controlling and that she had had disagreements with him. Urthcreature (talk) 19:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

From approximately February through May 2008, Casey was dating Ricardo Morales, and she sometimes stayed with Caylee at the townhome shared by Morales and JP Chatt (the owner of the townhome), and girlfriend Amy Huizenga, allegedly until June 9 2008. According to witness statements, Casey also allegedly did laundry at this townhome after June 16. It was at this townhome that the photos were taken of Caylee in the "Big Trouble/Small Packages" t-shirt, which were provided by Ricardo Morales to Globe magazine. Police interviews with Morales and Huizenga were released in evidence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcpgztAc1F0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL Urthcreature (talk) 19:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Lazzaro is the boyfriend Casey started dating around June 1, 2008, and with whom she was living from June 16 (the alleged date of Caylee's disappearance) until her mother came and got her on July 15, 2008. One of his first official statements is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjolv3153hA (His roommates at the apartment were Cameron Campana/Campina , Roy Clint House, and Nathan Lesniewicz or Lezniewicz. There were several sheriff's dept interviews with Lazzaro: July 16 or 17 2008, July 22, 24, dates in August and Sept, and Oct 16, 2008. Cameron Campina was in the July 17 interview with Lazzaro and interviewed again later in Fall 2008. Lezniewicz was interviewed in Fall 2008. Clint House and his girlfriend were interviewed in July 2008. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeQgf0HBXsk) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUS9it5teVQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwWJwoK3PoI&playnext=1&list=PLA189E330A7A9C8F5

Casey was shown with Anthony Lazzaro on surveillance video at a Blockbuster video rental store on June 16 2008, the alleged date that Caylee disappeared. http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/17841181/detail.html

It was at Lazzaro's DJ events at the club named Fusian where Casey was photographed with his associates. Lazzaro and his roommates stated Caylee was at his apartment on several occasions, they stated June 13 2008 was the last date. Lazzaro stated he was in Casey's family home on two occasions around June 11-13 with Casey , once with Caylee. Lazzaro stated he was at the Anthony home on June 23, when he helped Casey gas up her car in her parents' neighborhood, approximately one week before the car was left at Amscot, and was present to pick Casey up when she allegeldy left the car at Amscot. http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18862199/detail.html In the Oct 16 interview, Lazzaro stated he stood near Casey's car on June 23 and did not smell any unusual smell. He says he saw part of the trunk interior when she put the gas cans into the trunk in his presence. Tony Lazzaro also stated that he rode in Casey's car at some point. He and one of his roommates stated that Casey was parking her car at their apartment until it was left at Amscot. Neither Tony nor his roommates mention a smell to Casey's car (or Casey) while the car was parked at their apartment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUS9it5teVQ Some texts or IMs between Casey and Tony Lazzaro shortly after they met were released. Lazzaro was also the person investigators had wear a hidden recording device while speaking to Casey Anthony's brother early in the case. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHSp6fMsxsc&feature=fvwrel None of the boyfriends were ever named people of interest in the investigation. Investigators did a walk through of Lazzaro's apartment during the July 16 interview to see if Caylee was there. Nothing was released in evidence to indicate any forensics were done in either apartment or cadaver or search dogs taken to either. Investigative documents released in the case indicated investigators used luminol in the back of Tony Lazzaro's vehicle and on shoes he had in his vehicle, and examined the back of the vehicle for hairs. Urthcreature (talk) 19:40, 7 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Urthcreature (talk • contribs) 19:24, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, neither of those youtube videos will pass WP:RS. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:36, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

For the article itself right, or here on the discussion page? At Youtube, the official police interview videos/audios are posted without advertising. Many of the official videos/audios are also posted on the Orlando news station websites but those sites contain advertising before the video/audio. Many citations already included in the article are from news sources that contain advertising.Urthcreature (talk) 02:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• Advertising has nothing to do with it. The youtube entries are not reliable sources. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Be that designation as it may, they are the official documents that were just uploaded to Youtube when they were made public (obvious when you see them, they're exactly the same official interviews as posted on the news websites, but the news websites don't necessarily include them all.) You can find a lot more of them easily on Youtube, so I definitely recommend it to anyone wanting to hear all the police interviews with the witnesses. That's interesting that advertising isn't a problem, thanks for the info. It's ironic that people can cite even the most out of date, inaccurate, and/or speculative media stories about the case, but can't cite the evidence documents/audios themselves if it's posted on Youtube or other public use websites LOL. But if that's Wikipedia's rule, that's the rule.Urthcreature (talk)

• You are missing the obvious. It's posted on youtibe by Sierra1947. Who is that? Is that you? Is it me? Is it Jimmy Wales? Who knows. That's pretty unreliable. And that's just for starters. Have you read WP:RS? Niteshift36 (talk) 00:50, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

No need to be rude, Niteshift. If you're familiar with the case you know they are the official police interviews from the Orange County Sheriff's Office, released to the public under Florida law, posted not only by someone named "Sierra" but many other members of the public on Youtube and other public use websites, appearing exactly the same in each case, unaltered. I'm not using these links in the article itself, but here on the discussion page because people on the discussion page have asked for information and may not know where they can find the sheriff's department interviews. Have you read some of the news stories linked on the actual article? Do you know who those writers are? But I do understand that those citations are allowed in the article and anything posted on Youtube cannot be cited in the article. I didn't know the same rule applied to the discussion page. In the coming days I will try to dig up and add alternative links to these same interviews I've linked here on the discussion page, where they still exist. Urthcreature (talk) 02:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• My friend, I am very familiar with Florida's public records laws. Please don't even try to educate me on them. Seriously, you NEED to read WP:RS. And, since you apparently haven't read WP:BLP, things said about living people that are contentious must be supported by sources, even on a talk page. BTW, that wasn't rude. I'll tell you what is rude though....refusing to read the applicable policies when someone is even kind enough to provide you with links to them. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Try to educate you about Florida law? I'm not sure what you're talking about there, nor do I understand your need for rudeness here. As I said above, it was before your post that I thought the citation rule was somewhat more relaxed on the discussion page, as there are uncited posts here. As already stated above I will try to substitute other links for these same official interviews here on the discussion page (though not all are still working links at the news websites at this late date.)

• Applying the policies and showing you where they are isn't rude. Ignoring the help being given to you is. I'm not talking about using youtube on the tlak page. But it really serves no purpose to talk about it here. The page is to talk about what goes in the article, not a gab-fest about info on the case. If you are trying to use the youtube entries in the article, the answer is: They aren't reliable. If you're not trying to use them in the article, then we have no further need to talk about them. And yes, your responses on this page (in various locations), come across like you are trying to tell me what the public record laws in Florida allow. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:22, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry about any misunderstanding, Niteshift. At the time I posted the info about Florida's "Sunshine" law in above sections, I wasn't aware of you yet and was not addressing that information to you. I only offered that because I saw that some people had posted asking for more information and being from outside of Florida myself I know that many out-of-staters and people from other countries don't know the case evidence is in the public domain or where they can find it. My apologies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Urthcreature (talk • contribs) 15:58, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Point of View

Anybody else think the article is fine as is right now and the POV tag should be removed? Rhoadrunner (talk) 04:00, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree. remove.--MarkusBJoke (talk) 11:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

wholesale removal of large sections of article

Large parts of this article were removed without any explanation or discussion, and it now reads in a disjointed and uninformative way, assuming that readers will know the story. It may have needed editing, but the article now makes no sense and gives too much detail in some sections and not nearly enough elsewhere. Am I missing something here? Tvoz/talk 05:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with what you say. I noticed that myself, but I did not bother to post a comment here until just now. Everything you say is true ... the article was rather large ... it was chopped up quite a bit ... and what remains is disjointed and uninformative. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC))

Well, I reinstated the removed parts and did some editing - it can use more, but at least the basic structure is there. I do think we have too much day-to-day detail and it could use some work, but not just removal of sections the way it as done. Hope you'll do some editing of it! Tvoz/talk 19:00, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I would say that the "confirmation of death" section definitely needs some trimming. Any opinions on what should stay and what should go? Tad Lincoln (talk) 22:50, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

April 2011, many basic facts and sequence of events items were removed from the article this month, especially in the "investigation" section. Someone took it upon themselves to remove many items of information and chronology from the article (all witness statements that had been there, etc) and simply offer their own personal summary of the investigation in a few lines, omitting all evidence/facts from the case, except that Caylee's remains were reported and found and items about Casey Anthony. Basically this reduces the article to just a kind of bookmark, rather than any kind of informative article about the case. It would be nice if there was a Wikipedia policy of avoiding removing or rewriting but only adding information that one deems relevant. Urthcreature (talk) 02:12, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• You have it backwards. There is a policy allowing the removal of material that isn't supported by reliable sources and a policy against putting material that isn't supported by a reliable source in the article. Drmies is an experienced editor and from what I've seen, his edits are in keeping with policy. You obviously have an interest beyond a mere one. You might want to read the essay about WP:TRUTH. It's not about every detail being put in or what "everyone knows", it is about what can be shown using reliable, third party sources. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:50, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood my above post. I had only written that I thought it would be nice if there was a policy to protect articles from re-writing etc, not that there is such a policy. I'm already aware that current policy allows this re-writing. Nor did I criticize any individual by name. I object to your accusation: "You obviously have an interest beyond a mere one". I am just a member of the public and have no connection or vested interest in this case. Your lecturing me about "Truth" is a bit much. I understand the policy about verifiable third party souces accepted by Wikipedia. I agree with those who have posted that the article reflects point of view.Urthcreature (talk) 14:26, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• Object all you want. It wasn't an accusation. There is nothing wrong with being more than merely interested. However, letting it cloud your judgement requires caution. If you bothered to read the essay I'm talking about, you'll see there is no lecutring about truth, there is an injection of reality and balance.

Something else needed

It should be mentioned in this article that someone made some doll over that girl, which was a very mockingly rebellious thing to have been done; plus that it's not right to make money off of someone who passed away, got arrested, or became influenced under any other bad situation. It was a very bad thing someone made such a doll to make fun of someone. --PJ Pete February 6, 2009, 18:28

Well then lets not reward their poor taste by putting things like that in the article. Beach drifter (talk) 15:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Photo

Is there any particular reason why this article has a photo of Casey, but not Caylee? I am just curious. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:33, 7 February 2009 (UTC))

Presumably there are no free photos available of the child. Tvoz/talk 03:59, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

OK, thanks, that makes sense. Thank you. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC))

Memorial

Is there really a need for this section? Beach drifter (talk) 03:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Diary

Should there be a mention that on the opposite side of the diary entry there is an "'03'" written. This seems to imply that the entry in question was written in 2003. The only source I could find online on this is http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-casey-anthony-diary-021809,0,6170650.story, but I also heard this mentioned on an HLN show (can't remember the name of it unfortunately). I know that it is speculative that the entry was written in 2003 so I'm not sure if this info should be added. Just figured I would put it out there for discussion. 92708S (talk) 08:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes I believe someone should mention this. 68.4.92.170 (talk) 23:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I have added information about the diary entry allegedly being written in 2003.

92708S (talk) 07:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Evidence

With regards to evidence, I believe that only significant evidence should be noted. I know "significant" is highly subjective; but, that aside, if every amount of evidence put forward in the future for both sides (prosecution and defense) is added to this article it'll be a long long read. Also, while of course it's always important to have information properly sourced, I think it's especially important to source anything pertaining to evidence for this case. 92708S (talk) 08:05, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

To add to this point, I want to explain why I removed information about the nature of clothing found at the scene (presumably the clothing worn by Caylee). I'm not a lawyer, but at this juncture, it appears that this information is irrelevant to the case. If, for example, relevant DNA evidence becomes attributed to this clothing, then obviously this should be noted in the article.

92708S (talk) 08:11, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Now that all the evidence has been released (2011), it seems like information about the clothing should probably be included in my opinion. Kind of hard to have an article about a disappearance/murder case without including the evidence from the case. I agree that 'significant evidence only' would be subjective.

Challenge Based on Lack of Neutrality

I have tried to add the template for challenging an article based on lack of neutrality. It did not work for me, but if someone knows how to add the template it would be helpful. Thank you.

I challenge on neutrality because the article is written as if Casey Anthony is guilty, but she has only been charged not convicted. I tried to add a few points such as that she and her family deny all charges and my minor edits were deleted and I was threatened with being banned from Wikipedia for violating neutrality principles. I think that not allowing for an alternative view point--such as that a defendant such as Casey is innocent until proven guilty--violates the neutrality policy. I intend to find cites for what I added, but I need a few minutes to do that and should not be threatened with banishment for simply providing a different perspective. This article needs to consider Casey Anthony's side of the story--which is that she is innocent. At this time the article is not neutral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theo789 (talk • contribs) 21:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I've added the {{POV}} template per your request. TheFeds 21:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the wording of the boilerplate warnings was strong—you'll note that they increase in intensity as you receive more and more of them. By undoing the revisions that sparked the original warnings, you invited further warnings, which were more forceful. Don't worry about being banned for expressing alternative points of view.

The issue of non-neutrality is fair game for discussion. But please don't repeatedly add things to the effect of 'but she hasn't been found guilty'—that's evident from the content of the article. It doesn't need repeating over and over, in multiple places. It looks like you're trying to dilute the article in a biased way. On the other hand, I fully agree with stating once, in the lead section of the article, that Casey Anthony maintains her innocence—but you should cite a source (WP:CS) for that as a matter of principle. TheFeds 21:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

• To me, the article seems like a neutral, well-cited reflection of the facts that have been reported about the case. Nowhere does it say she is guilty, or that she has been convicted. It says in lede that Anthony and her family maintain her innocence. If you have information to add, by all means add it, as long as it is supported by reliable 2nd party sources. Dawn Bard (talk) 21:32, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

To Dawn Bard: This article may reflect what has been reported in the media about the case, but that does not make it neutral. The media have been having a field-day with this case and have largely painted Casey as guilty. I live in New England and am not involved with this case, except as a tv viewer. But I do think this article reflects the bias in the media against Casey. It is just basic fairness that both sides of the story be presented so that the article includes issues or defenses raised by the defense or the Anthony family. This girl may not be guilty at all, or may be guilty of an accidental injury resulting in death, not murder. I think that the article should reflect those possibilities and the alternative views offered by the Anthony family and their lawyers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theo789 (talk • contribs) 21:45, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

The only thing the article should reflect is what reliable, 2nd party sources say about the case. Whether or not the media have been having a "field day" is an opinion, unless, of course, you can find sourced information to the contrary. As I said, the article makes it clear that Anthony has not been convicted, and that she maintains that she is innocent. I think the reason your edits were being reverted was that you were adding what looked like personal opinion without citing sources, and that is a problem in potentially contentious/controversial articles like this one. Find sources, and everyone is happy. Dawn Bard (talk) 21:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources are the basis of wikipedia content. Neutral point of view does not mean giving a platform to "both sides", it means reporting the story as covered by the sources. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I removed the NPOV entry before, I will do so again. If needed will use personal account. however, fact that her child was missing for a MONTH is not POV. nor is this article. She WILL be convicted. and I don't even like children. Simply because her family/friends don't think this is fair to her doesn't make it so. I think this is great and NPOV or biased.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.136.6.20 (talk • contribs) 6:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The POV designation doesn't mean that there is 100% consensus that the article is biased; it simply means that the neutrality of the article has been challenged. Please refrain from removing the tag.

92708S (talk) 13:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

True, but neutrality tags aren't supposed to be used to promote a POV as this one seems to be doing (see his similar comments at Talk: Philip Markoff) - the discussions here show that there is a consensus among editors that the piece is NPOV as it fairly reflects what reliable sources report, and draws no conclusions about her guilt or innocence. The person who put the tag on has not shown how this article is not neutral - so unless he or someone else does, I'm inclined to agree that the tag should be off. Tvoz/talk 19:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The redlink posted it on May 3 [4] or tried to, and then disappeared after May 14. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I removed the tag based on this discussion - if anyone has a real argument for how this piece is POV, please post it here. Thx Tvoz/talk 23:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm in agreement now that it should have been removed.92708S (talk) 17:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Casey Anthony

I re-instated the Casey Anthony section as i think its time i would also refer to the Sarah Payne article and a number of other similar once if someone disagrees with this style. now that we know she willf ace trial and possible death sentence she has established her own sort of notability.--MarkusBJoke (talk) 16:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It could also be good that the people searching for Casey Anthony and not the whole case in itself can find the section immediatly and exclusivly about casey as of now.--MarkusBJoke (talk) 16:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

No grammar

The paragraph called "Investigation" is ungrammatical at the end, at the moment. It is now more grammatical. Casey Anthony will be found guilty and sentenced to death, for killing Caylee Anthony.

• As to your prediction of the outcome of the trial and sentencing: who knows? But if I were the defense counsel, I would seek to get as many non-parents on the jury as I could. In my humble opinion, jurors who are or had been parents of young children will be… uhmm… *puzzled* by her behavior at bars and parties in the few weeks after Caylee’s disappearance. I am certain that I, anyway, would have been quite unable to appear to be enjoying myself like that and whooping it up with bump & grind for well over a year—or perhaps much more—after the disappearance of my first child. In my humble opinion, because I might be wrong here.

  The preceding paragraph are simple statements of what I should think Casey’s defense strategy should be, musings of how I would expect parents to view Casey’s bar behavior, and an observation of how I think I would react under similar circumstances. The preceding is in no way a prediction of the outcome of her trial or an opinion of the guilt or innocence of Casey, who is a living person and may well be a fine, outstanding parent (even while doing the bump & grind), and might well be found not guilty in a court tof law.^Disclaimer Greg L (talk) 23:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

An important omission on the page

I see one important omission on the page. There is no mention of the second autopsy done at the request of the Anthony family. I know it was performed by Dr. Henry Lee and Dr. Werner Spitz.

Someone here with more information should include that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joanner33782 (talk • contribs) 23:36, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Date of death

Are there any sources for Caylee's date of death? The article currently states: "According to George Anthony, Caylee's grandfather, Casey Anthony left the family home on June 16, 2008, around 1:00 pm, taking her 3 year old daughter Caylee with her." Just because Casey left the house on that day does not necessarily mean that that is the same day on which Caylee died. Are there any sources available for her date of death? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:30, 17 April 2011 (UTC))

For now, I am listing the June 16, 2008, date of death with a "circa" notation. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:36, 17 April 2011 (UTC))

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