Talk:Deftones (album)

Untitled

6/20/12 I deleted the phrase "it is considered their darkest album" because it is outdated. Saturday Night Wrist, released three years later and recorded during the height of Chino Moreno's drug addiction and divorce, has since been generally accepted as the band's darkest work. Also, the deleted sentence had no source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.182.145.226 (talk) 21:42, 20 June 2012 (UTC) The page begining and the info box contridict one another, could some one edit the correct date? - user:xxpor

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Deftones (album)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

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Article requirements for Start-Class criteria: Y An infobox. Y A lead section giving an overview of the album. Y A track listing. Y Reference to at least primary personnel by name. Y Categorisation at least by artist and year. B-Class criteria: Y All of Start class criteria. Y A reasonably complete infobox, including cover art. N At least one section of prose (in addition to the lead section). Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs. Y A "personnel" section listing performers, including guest musicians. Y A casual reader should learn something about the album. C-Class criteria: N All of B-Class criteria. Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details. Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians. N No obvious issues with sourcing, including the use of blatantly improper sources. N No significant issues exist to hamper readability, although it may not rigorously follow WP:MOS. Cdl obelix (talk) 10:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 10:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 13:08, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110722044406/http://danishcharts.com/showitem.asp?interpret=Deftones&titel=Deftones&cat=a to http://danishcharts.com/showitem.asp?interpret=Deftones&titel=Deftones&cat=a
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081208180703/http://dutchcharts.nl:80/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones to http://dutchcharts.nl/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081208180422/http://finnishcharts.com:80/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones to http://finnishcharts.com/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121021213018/http://italiancharts.com/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones to http://italiancharts.com/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081208185559/http://charts.org.nz:80/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones to http://charts.org.nz/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081211190240/http://norwegiancharts.com:80/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones to http://norwegiancharts.com/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Deftones
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110715110156/http://portuguesecharts.com/showitem.asp?interpret=Deftones&titel=Deftones&cat=a to http://portuguesecharts.com/showitem.asp?interpret=Deftones&titel=Deftones&cat=a
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151019075638/http://www.zobbel.de/cluk/CLUK_D.HTM to http://www.zobbel.de/cluk/CLUK_D.HTM
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110604040853/http://www.bpi.co.uk/certifiedawards/search.aspx to http://www.bpi.co.uk/certifiedawards/search.aspx

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Genre

I think I might have found some things to add as sourced genres, but I'm pretty sure the community is going to hate them. So I'm bringing it here first. I know that the narrative seems to be that Deftones left nu metal behind on this album, but... it keeps showing up. [1] [2] I think post-metal or its nickname metalgaze could be cited with this: [3] Additionally, I found a whole lotta simply "metal". But I don't know if that's useful enough to include. dannymusiceditor ^oops 19:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Allmusic review says nothing about nu metal. Metacritic and the "Metalgaze" refs are correct SpaceHelmetX1 (talk) 19:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Implemented. I am preparing for the horde. dannymusiceditor ^oops 16:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

idk... I still think the Allmusic review doesn't explicitly label the album as nu-metal. SpaceHelmetX1 (talk) 16:59, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I argue the quote I placed in the Allmusic ref is saying the band is "play[ing] by the nu metal reviews" on the album by comparing them to the times they are not. In any case, I think there was one more out there while I was looking through them that called it nu metal, but the one works for now. I'll add it soon. dannymusiceditor ^oops 18:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Q Magazine review explicitly says nu metal. "In a genre considered creatively bankrupt, this is genuinely new metal" SpaceHelmetX1 (talk) 19:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Careful with that one. The specific way they worded that is ambiguous. Someone who is familiar with nu metal and its history might pick up the context from the so-called "creative bankruptcy" that by 2003 nu metal was mostly stale and declining, but to an outsider, "genuinely new" could be interpreted as simply a new, unique outlook/approach on heavy metal as a whole. dannymusiceditor ^oops 20:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

The album was not positively received upon release

I'm not going to go out of my way to say that it was negatively received, but look at the reviews, you can't honestly claim it's solely positive based on 3-4 major publications. Agree to disagree and include that it was mixed. Fans might enjoy it but the critics didn't seem as enthusiastic, though it wasn't what I'd call negative, change it to mixed and agree to compromise. PontiacAurora (talk) 21:10, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

The position that it was "positively received" is drawn from a Metacritic metric. Running off that is generally the norm for album critical reception sections when talking as a whole. We can include some of the more negative reception, of course, but their overview generally guides how we head the section's reception. dannymusiceditor ^oops 21:50, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

That’s just your outlook on it though, I bought it back in 2003, it was very polarizing to say the least. I think he’s right in saying it received a mixed reception as opposed to positive. Metacritic doesn’t exactly speak for all critics ya know? Just sayin 2600:1012:B1C9:F735:7D87:7DD4:4A3D:4354 (talk) 00:26, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

On Wikipedia they do. They do in fact have a phrase for different scores; a 74, which is what was collected by MC for this album, falls under "generally positive". dannymusiceditor ^oops 00:44, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Metacritic is only one source though, you're really letting your own personal bias overtake the factual piece of this. PontiacAurora (talk) 20:05, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Come again? Metacritic is an entire collection of sources, and you are edit warring. The introduced disputed content is not displayed until full consensus is reached. And unless you take it to WP:ALBUMS, you won't get it here. dannymusiceditor ^oops 20:33, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

You cited ONE major source, how many times do I have to repeat myself? We can gladly escalate this to the admins if you keep letting your bias overtake the factual evidence. PontiacAurora (talk) 20:55, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

You don't get what Metacritic is, do you? They have a collection of like eight external reviews from other publications. That's why using their assessment makes so much sense, it gathers many reputable publications into one reference. If you wanna find any other sources which collectively refer to the album's reception as mixed and throw em in, feel free, but we don't have any right now, and I don't think there are any others that speak on its reception as a whole. dannymusiceditor ^oops 21:02, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Content dispute

Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 22:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Does the album fall under the Nu Metal Label?

I mean... Minerva, Needles & Pins, and Bloody Cape fall under the umbrella, but besides that; the band wanted to depart from the nu metal sound they had on White Pony PontiacAurora (talk) 06:06, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

It is possible to display the opinions of multiple different sources, and I thought we did include that view of trying to move past it already. If we did not, we can definitely include it, provided there such sources are available (and I'm sure there are some somewhere). But let's not exclude what's already reliably sourced, either. dannymusiceditor ^oops 17:46, 18 August 2023 (UTC)