Talk:Demmin

other notable events in Demmin?

Could we have a bit more on the history please? I feel that an entry that describes a mass suicide but nothing else before or since in the history of the town gives a wildly inaccurate impression of life in Demmin... --Stonemad GB 13:33, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

is the pharmacist story contested?

I think, it is contested by the TV report (MDR), because: 1. In the beginning that TV report says, that the Russian soldiers were trained psychologically to rape German females in order to extinguish certain thinking patterns allegedly common to German females. 2. It might be possible that the Russian soldiers, that were in Demmin, were more eager to do so for some other reasons. 3. It sounds unbelievable, that Russians drink wine, that is offered by a potentially severe enemy (pharmacists have a special role in every society and r trustees of the governmental authorities). 4. That poisoned wine story sounds more like a confabulation, that is a quite common reaction of the human brain to certain extreme circumstances (even if they r of purely psychological nature; I mean: even if no psychotropic substances r involved). 5. It is generally a bad idea to punish some group (X) for something, that was committed by somebody else (Y) (especially if this "somebody else" (Y) is known to have supported activities, that were already severely harmful for the others (X)). -- So I would say, that the TV report itself can be used as a source, that contests the wine-story "between the lines" (remember that MDR is TV broadcast station in an area, that was formerly a part of GDR (Russian zone), and that surely has some russian inheritances to cope with). --Homer Landskirty 17:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The poisoning would not justify the crimes perpetrated at Demmin, it's certainly not what I intended to say. On the other hand a reference should be given that either states that Historians today can prove that this version is not based on any facts, or at least clearly supports that idea. Heck even one notable historian would be enough to source that statement. And I can assure you that German Public TV (First, Second or Third networks (MDR being part of the later) does not have any russian inheritances to cope with. If anything there is very little continuity from the GDR to unified Germany. In short, we have one source backing the Pharmacy story, no source so far contradicting it.--Caranorn 20:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

edit about allegedly missing source regarding russians/pharmacists/...

In re the edit:

The source is [2] (a state-owned broadcast station):

This was fueled by atrocities and rapes committed by Red Army soldiers

«Vernichtungskrieg [...] kommt mit aller Brutalität zurück.»

«O-Ton: Antony Beevor: "We found this in fact in some of the reports in the soviet archives where woman who had tried to commit suicide and when were intelligated by SMERSCH or NKWD "Why do you tried to commit suicide?" and they account because we were raped time after time by all these drunken soldiers and we couldn´t face it any longer. And they also said we found, that the german propaganda had actually been right."»

until the city commander had the access to the rivers blocked on May 3.

This seems to be not supported by that source, but it fits the pattern...

The largest part of Demmin's historic city centre fell victim to a planned
arson committed by the Red Army. Particularly the area around the central
market square was completely leveled.

«Die Rote Armee kam am 30. April nach Demmin in Vorpommern. Die Stadt wurde geplündert und angezündet. Haus für Haus, Straßenzug für Straßenzug fielen den Flammen zum Opfer. Die gesamte Altstadt wurde niedergebrannt.»

A never accepted amongst native Demminers version promoted by
GDR-historiography wants to tell us that [...]

Not really POV... Not backed by a source... But it sounds true... It is unbelievable (not only for native Demminers), that russians r manipulated so much by a single nazi-family...

[...] the actions of the Red Army
had to be seen as a retribution for the poisoning of Red Army officers by
a Demmin pharmacist family, who had allegedly invited some Red Army officers
to celebrate the liberation of Demmin, and who were said to have poisoned
those army officers using wine.

«Ein Ereignis in dieser alten Apotheke war der Grund für den Vandalismus der Russen: Der Apotheker, ein strammer Nazi, lud einige russische Offiziere nach dem Einmarsch zur Siegesfeier mit seiner Familie. Doch der Apotheker hatte den Wein vergiftet. Die Russen starben gemeinsam mit der Apothekerfamilie. Als der Giftmord von der Roten Armee entdeckt wurde, zündeten die Soldaten das Haus an. Die Einwohner Demmins hatten Fürchterliches zu ertragen.»

Historians today can prove that this version is not based on any facts.

There is no source given for this... But it sounds like we do not need a historian to see, that nobody trusts a convinced enemy (pharmacists r approbated by the state) so much, that he takes food and beverages from him (especially when he is a pharmacist)...

Official GDR historiography has hushed
up these incriminating to the Red Army events, and has explained the
destruction of Demmin as being the result of combat operations towards the
end of World War II.

«Während des DDR-Regimes wurden die Demminer Toten verschwiegen.»

«An das Grauen erinnert keine Gedenktafel, kein Schulbuch erwähnt den wohl größten Massenselbstmord der deutschen Geschichte.»

--Homer Landskirty 08:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Nazi votes

I removed the following line from the article:

During the interwar period Demmin region was a stronghold of Nazi and nationalist movement: out of 28.255 eligble votes 16.247 were cast for NSDAP and 5.301 for the nationalist DNVP party(21.548 total or 76.2%)

The quoted results were not for Demmin, but for Landkreis Demmin. They further do not make Demmin a Nazi "stronghold" - the results were typical for the 1933 election, and as in all of Pomerania the Nazis had no significant support in the years before (and no elections were held after 1933). Skäpperöd (talk) 13:10, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, Skäpperöd, you are mistaken there. In Pomerania the Nazi were already strongest party in both 1932 elections - 47.9 and 43.1 per cent respectively or 8/7 MPs of 14 seats in the Reichstag (results for all Prussia were 37.1 and 32.8). The 1933 were the last elections held under "normal" conditions - only the KPD was forbidden at that time. Still the communists got 12.3 per cent of the vote, the overall result for the NSDAP was 43.9 - compared to 56.3 in Pomeria. Pomeria was a stronghold of the NSDAP, and with 57.4 the Demmin constituency was above average, which justifies the claim of a NSDAP stronghold. --红卫兵 (talk) 18:58, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for this interesting information-would be it correct then to describe Pomeranian Province as Nazi and DNVP stronghold? --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

That should be uncontroversial. Check File:NSDAP Wahl 1933.png --红卫兵 (talk) 05:32, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

In 1928, the NSDAP only got 1.5% of the Pomeranian votes. The map linked above depicts the 1933 results, and shows that Demmin was no exception to the way this vote went in most of Germany. Skäpperöd (talk) 06:53, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

What are you trying to say? That nobody supported Nazis in Demmin? The Nazis were a fringe party in 1928, in 1932 they had an absolute majority in the region. How come? --红卫兵 (talk) 07:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Skapperod-Demmin is in the region of its Landkreis-it's fairly standard to name election results there. Also please don't delete RS again. Thank you in advance. --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

iirc (i got history lessons in a state-owned school in germany... the history lessons in such schools were regulated by an international institute...) the 1933 election was already poisoned by bad voting forms (e. g. the nazi area on the form was much bigger than areas for other parties)... furthermore i think i can recall, that in the last halfways proper election the nazis got 33%... some numbers: de:NSDAP#Die_Wahlergebnisse_der_NSDAP_bei_den_Reichstagswahlen_1930_bis_1933 + Nazi Party#Federal_election_results (indeed Pomerania (43%) was clearly above the average (33%))... but i dont c how that is a "stronghold"... iirc in denazification the US+UK found, that the overwhelming part of the population was not involved in nazi crimes... the problem with elections was, that the population did not understand, that it was now responsible for governmental faults, so that it voted the funniest but not the most rational... --Homer Landskirty (talk) 07:58, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

ohoh - the bogus voting forms came in november 1933 not in march 1933... :-) --Homer Landskirty (talk) 08:37, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

References

Prehistory

I am a Demminer, was born there, raised there - the town historian, Mr Quadt, was my local history teacher. I know Neolithic and Megalithic places around Demmin. I played there, visited them in school trips. I just am not qualified enough to talk about "Urdolmen" (ancient dolmen) and "Schalensteine" (basin stones). The related articles in Wikimedia only exist in German. Would anyone be able to add some English content so that this chapter becomes more alive ? LordFarrow (talk) 15:50, 15 January 2011 (UTC)LordFarrow

Far fetched

Regarding this [3]. If it's well attested then please provide a source who's publication date begins with the digits 2 and 0 or at least 1 and 9.

I think it's pretty well established that the name of the place is just a version of an early Slavic name of the place (same is true for Berlin, btw) and these kinds of weird stories are... just weird stories.Volunteer Marek 03:33, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

And the story doesn't even make logical sense. These two guys built a house called "Haus Demmin". Then they said to each other, this house is mine and yours, which in German sounds like "Demmin". So they decided to call this "Haus Demmin" that they build "Demmin". *Slap forehead*.Volunteer Marek 03:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree that it's a stupid story (most folk explanations of toponyms are). But that doesn't mean that it's not well attested in reliable sources. That makes it an important part of the local culture. The presentation of the material can be modified to contextualize it better for less sophisticated readers that might be tempted to believe it. Doremo (talk) 03:41, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Ok, then let's write it in a way which makes sense and is clear and back it up with a recent reliable source.Volunteer Marek 03:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Here's a good example of an entire article discussing such a folk explanation: Lady Carcas. Doremo (talk) 03:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Here's another one where the contributor didn't understand the meaning of the linguistic term folk etymology: History of Baku. Doremo (talk) 03:51, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I know that this happens all the time, but we need a published secondary source which mentions it.Volunteer Marek 03:52, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

To put it another way, if this is a significant and notable local legend then yes, it should be included. But the sourcing for it being a significant and local legend currently in the article are pretty weak. I know this happens all the time so I'm not disputing the veracity of the claim. I just want to see a better source for it.Volunteer Marek 03:55, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

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