Talk:Dionysious V

Mar Dionysious

In the Malankara Church, Dionysious (a Graeco-Roman name) was the episcopal title given to a bishop, if the consecration was done by a bishop of another church. Before 1900 following Metropolitans were given this title in Malankara Church

1. Mar Thoma VI (1765-1808) was re-consecrated by visiting bishops from Antioch

Three Metropolitans were consecrated by Geevarghese Mar Philexenos (Kidangan) of the Malabar Independent Syrian Church

2. Mar Thoma X, Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious I, (1816-1816).

3. Mar Thoma XI, Punnathra Mar Dionysious (1817-1825)

4. Mar Thoma XII, Cheppad Philipose Mar Dionysius.(1825-1855).

5.Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious II (1865-1909) was consecrated by the Patriarch of Antioch Moran Mor Ignatius Yakoob II at Amida in Turkey.

Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious I and II

There were two Metropolitans (bishops) from Pulikkottil family and with the same name Joesph. So they are called Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious I (1817-1825) and Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious II (1864-1909).

The fifth Metropolitan with the episcopal title Dionysious (Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious II), is some times referred to as Dionysious V also.

"Dionysious II (Dionysious V)" in the same title leads to confusion. To avoid this, the title of this article is changed to "Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious II".Neduvelilmathew (talk) 05:18, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Predecessor

Looking at this biography, I find some anomalay. Can somebody explain it on this talk page and make the necessory correction in the article? So the name of his predecessor Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious I (Mar Thoma X) is removed from this article.

In the Info box the same person is his predecessor also.

From this article, it is clear that Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious II was born only on November 12, 1833 and was consecrated only on April 30, 1865. His predecessor Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious I (Mar Thoma X) had died on 24 November 1816, that is 17 years before his birth!

Does this means that there were no Metropolitans for this Church for almost 50 years, from 1816 to 1865, or did Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious II had his own new church for which Geevarghese Mar Dionysius of Vattasseril (Dionysius VI) was the successor. Moreover both of them are not ‘’’Mar Thoma’’’ like Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious I (Mar Thoma X). Neduvelilmathew (talk) 18:13, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

corrections

The Following corrections and additions have been made in this article.

Reverted and corrected - Predecessor – Cheppad Philipose Mar Dionysius (Mar Thoma XII) abdicated in 1852. From 1852 Mathews Mar Athanasius Metropolitan was proclaimed as the Malankara Metropolitan. Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious was consecrated only in 1865 and he was not the successor of Mathews Mar Athanasius. Again Pulikkottil was able to get the properties of the Church in 1899 only. At that time Thomas Mar Athanasius was the Metropolitan. So it is not clear whose successor Pulikkottil Joseph Mar Dionysious was. So the word not known is entered there.

His term as Metropolitan is given as 1825–1852. Being born in 1833, he cannot be a bishop from 1825-1852. The truth is that he was a bishop from 1865-1909.

References from Orthodox Church historians are added. More corrections may be made after going through these references.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:40, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

WP:NPOV

This article has a lot of lofty desriptions and biased content. Alw1216 (talk) 04:36, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

As the subject of this article clearly sided with and led one faction, such biographical articles can easily be mistaken for not being neutral. Also, you haven't called out any biased content. Hence removed the tag. Swordofcherubim (talk) 19:08, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Spelling?

All the other Dionysiuses are spelled without a second o. Is there a RS for this spelling? Miniapolis 02:07, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Church

As per talk discussion of List of Malankara Metropolitans Dionysious V belongs to Jacobite Syrian Christian Church. [1] Eldhose ^Talk 17:28, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

User: Eldhorajan92, there is no such conclusion made in that talk page. Metropolitans till 1911 should be consider as the part of Malankara Syrian Church (Unified Malankara Church) - can not claim as Metropolitan of "only" MOSC or "only" JSCC. Todays MOSC and JSCC are the part Malankara Syrian Church till 1911 - 1912 period. -John C. (talk) 04:31, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

John C., At the time of before 1910, the church under patriarch of Antioch then the church is known as jacobite syrian church as per reference and official book's of church. After 1911, One faction of the church split from under the throne of antioch found new church is known as Malankara orthodox church under the throne of St.Thomas like Marthoma Syrian Church. Eldhose ^Talk 05:47, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Malankara church is known as the group of churches like Marthoma Syrian, Jacobite Syrian, Orthodox Syrian, Malankara catholic Churches also. Eldhose ^Talk 05:56, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

User: Eldhorajan92, don't want to discuss same thing again and again. Go and check where did we keep "Dionysious V" in the article List of Malankara Metropolitans?? Its under the sub-list "List of Malankara Metropolitans of Malankara Syrian Church after 1877"--John C. (talk) 14:34, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Do you know, what Iam say? Dionysious V is the metropolitan of Syrian Orthodox Church of India. After 1910, the church to be divided, one is known as Jacobite Syrian Christian under church of antioch, the other one is new church known as malankara orthodox under throne of st.thomas and also this is the split church of syriac orthodox church in India or Malankara Syrian Church(Jacobite Syrian Christian Church), you can go only with reliable references. In talk discussion page of List of Malanlara Metropolitans already said about that what is the name of the church before 1910 and belongs to which throne or which church?. Eldhose ^Talk 16:40, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I guess you didn't get the question or not answering to the point as always -John C. (talk) 02:08, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

You can mention only Jacobite Syrian Christian Church thats also Because of Jacobite Syrian Chrisrian Church is known as Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church. Malankara Church article is group of Churches not Malankara Syrian Church or Jacobite Syrian Christian Church, nothing more! Eldhose ^Talk 03:07, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

To be honest, not able to understand your English. The question is simple - In the article List of Malankara Metropolitans, "Dionysious V" is under the sub-list "List of Malankara Metropolitans of Malankara Syrian Church after 1877" and you admitted that you are agreeing to that list, will not do any more edit warring in that topic. Then how can you take a U-turn here? Are you playing with other users valuable time? If you are sticking on the name യാക്കോബായ സുറിയാനി സഭ (Jacobite Syrian Church) in some references, Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church (MOSC) was also known by the same name. Since they felt The term "jacobite" is a misnormer, they dropped it. The Jacobite faction also changed their name multiple times like Malankara Jacobite Syrian Church, Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church, Jacobite Syrian Christian Church. Even Syriac Orthodox Church changed their name multiple times. In summary anywhere you are seeing a reference Jacobite Syrian Church , you can not claim that its current Jacobite Syrian Christian Church. If you are saying "The Malankara Orthodox Church is separated from the Syriac Orthodox Church of India known as Jacobite Syrian Christian Church" as the response to every query, then why Jacobite Syrian Christian Church (JSCC) could not prove that in Supreme court of India in a century old dispute? Again Why did court make it mandatory to follow Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church (MOSC)'s 1934 constitution for JSCC also?? Please don't talk in an illogical manner -John C. (talk) 07:10, 30 November 2020 (UTC)