Talk:Dogo Argentino/Archive 1

Archive 1

Photography

I've added two photos of my eight month old female puppy. I will try to get more nose to tail shots later! --vex5 06:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Added a photo of an adult female Dogo Argentino. File:Blizzundercover.jpg SnowyDogz 20:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)SnowyDogz

External Links

Breeders and kennels sites aren´t usefull for the Wikipedia, they have commercial activites and have anothers channels to promote their sites and business. Add only informative and quality content sites about Argentine Dogo. --Lulubel 14:52, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Mr Victor12

Sr Victor12, me gustaria saber en que se basa o cual es su criterio en quitar los enlaces externos que puse a la comunidad mas importante en lo que al dogo argentino se refiere. Todas la noticias, campeonatos, leyes, reformas, historia, grandes campeones, pasan por ese sitio. Me atreveria a decir que es el sitio mas importante a nivel mundial donde se nuclean fanaticos del dogo argentino.

It would please me to know on that she is based to clear links external that I place the important community but referred dogo Argentine.

Gracias Daniela —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.250.167.254 (talk) 19:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello, could you specify which site are you referring to? As for guidelines for external links, you should check out WP:EL. One more thing, if you can, try to use English on talk pages per Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines, so that the whole community can understand what you're saying. Greetings, --Victor12 19:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello, excuses by my language, I use a translator He is graceful that is not allowed me to include to the great community but at related world-wide level dogo Argentine. Perhaps you do not know it, but this insurance that www.dogoargento.com.ar is the site at world-wide but excellent level in which to dogo Argentine it talks about. All the important information but happens that way.

I am based on the point 4º that says the following thing: Sites with to other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such ace reviews and interviews.

Thank you very much —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.250.167.254 (talk) 20:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that www.dogoargento.com.ar is a forum and links to such sites are generally discouraged in Wikipedia. For instance Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds says about external links that

Links to web sites that expand on the encyclopedic info provided by wikipedia. Generally excluded are local breed clubs (too many hundreds to try to maintain the links), commercial sites (where the ads or intent to sell something are blatant), forums and blogs (not particularly encyclopedic).

Also WP:EL lists among external links to be avoided the following:

Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), discussion forums or USENET.

Hope that info is helpful. --Victor12 20:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Victor12, We have added the Social Website www.dogoargentino.com.uy from Uruguay, becouse is a Social Site that join all clubs and Expo , Hunting peoples about the Dogo Argentine, please re-add this site, is not a commercial site, not a forum, not a blog.

Thanks in advanced. H.D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dogopasion (talk • contribs) 21:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links):

Since this is the English Wikipedia, webpages in English are highly preferred. Linking to non-English pages may still be useful for readers in some cases:

• when the website is the subject of the article
• when linking to pages with maps, diagrams, photos, tables; explain the key terms with the link, so that people who do not know the language can still interpret them
• when the webpage contains key or authoritative information found on no English-language site and is used as a citation (or when translations on English-language sites are not authoritative)

As www.dogoargentino.com.uy is a non-English site it has too meet one of the above requirements to be included. I don't think it does. --Victor12 21:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

"legally" Are these brilliant hunting dogs allowed into australia without question? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.223.25.220 (talk • contribs) 12:26, 24 May 2008

Illogical POV parts

"They are excessively tolerant of children due to their high pain tolerance, derived from selective breeding to be a big game hunter. "

This sentence is either a complete non-sequitur or is implying that this breed gets along with children since they don't mind being tortured. Two problems with that. This is a hugely risky assertion for obvious reasons, were anyone actually stupid enough to test it. Second, it suggests that tolerance of provocation is the most notable factor affecting compatibility between these dogs and kids. But in fact it's well known that any dog can spontaneously attack a child without provocation.

This amounts to an irresponsible POV statement that the breed is child friendly, when there is no empirical evidence to say that it is. It is important that a prospective owner should not falsely assume that, as such the inherent risk it could present in a domestic family setting is negated.

We should also be mentioned that this breed is banned in the UK under the Dangerous Dogs Act. It is a wholly relevant, notable and verifiable fact, as opposed to much of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.105.200.221 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

You have certainly a funny way to look at things. The sentence you talk about means that since the dog will not feel pain when a child plays with him (we all know that childs can be rough sometimes) is not going to try to defend itself from aggression which is a very common dog's behaviour. Your well known fact is anything but well knwon.

No empirical evidence? What about thousand of argentine dogo owners with childs?

The UK dangerous dog act is not that relevant, it should be (and it is) mentioned because is a fact, but is clearly not that relevant, it can be argued that is NOT banned on the 99% of the world which is also a notable and verifiable fact. The reason why the dog is in the act is because due to its size and power it can be dangerous if is educated wrongly. If you have a 4 Kilograms dog and you educate the dog really bad and it turns out to be aggressive no one would care as you can do whatever you want against them. Now if the same happens to a 55 Kilograms dog you would have a dangerous dog. Combine that with bad press and a mostly unknown dog and you have your act.

You can turn almost any dog into an aggressive dog by misseducation. That's not the point the point is that dogo is a very calm and affectionate dog and you can turn it into a treat if you do things wrong, not the other way around.

People tend to believe the opposite and think that the 4 dogs listed on the act are the same and is not true, the fila brasileiro is an aggressive dog whose aggression is even tolerated on shows (as wikipedia says) that is completely different to the argentine dogo who was breed to be a hunter and a guardian not an aggressive dog.

In any case the way you write and what you say leads me to believe that you don't really know what you are talking about and probably haven't seen a dogo in your life and blindly believe all the stories you've heard (if any) and trust the act which is supposedly there to protect you so it must be right!

Your opinion is just uneducated fear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.232.182.119 (talk • contribs) 10:46, 16 February 2009

Argentine Dogo

Moving to this alternative breed name based on list of dog breeds, which was previously researched in most cases to find the most commonly used name in English kennel clubs and web sites. Elf | Talk 03:19, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I know the dog is better known as Dogo Argentino, I see someone changed it in the article but having a page name Argentine Dogo and using Doge Argentino as the default name is wrong to me. We should change the page name or stick with Argentine Dogo.ShotokanTuning 07:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The name should be Dogo Argentino--not only is it the proper name worldwide, but the most commonly used name in the US. One or two splinter groups in the US history of the breed have attempted to change the name to Argentine Dogo in the US, but it is neither commonly accepted or used in the breed community. Typically those who call their dogs "Argentine Dogos" are commercial breeders with profit and exploitation of the breed in mind. I have changed the name everywhere except the title of the article, and can't figure out how to do that.

The breed is also wrongly known as "Argentinian Mastiff" This breed is NOT a mastiff and I think the article should point this out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WhiteDiamond1975 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I've put in a request for the pages to be moved to Dogo Argentino, can't think that I've ever once heard it called the Argentine Dogo in common usage. Miyagawa (talk) 18:05, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree, most kennel clubs name this breed Dogo Argentino. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RedThunderBuster (talk • contribs) 20:47, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Checked this morning and the move has kicked in. Miyagawa (talk) 09:45, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Style

A lot of this article reads like a guide for dog owners rather than an encyclopaeida (e.g. 'A conscientious puppy-buyer will proceed with caution when importing a puppy from a foreign country; novices should consider contacting the national breed parent club for assistance.') I'm going to make an attempt to improve it. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 13:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Please don't add similar content back again, for example this 'To have a healthy dog you must feed it well with very healthy food, share lots of time exercising and show much love. Argentine Dogos have a very keen sense of smell, and if they are not eating what they are offered, as with all dogs, then this means another type of food should be offered for the food may be about to be recalled.' and this 'In particular areas of the world where dog fighting is practiced, unfortunately some people exploit and bread them for fighting. All dogs of these lines are extremely aggressive and not suited for big game hunting. Regrettably, some countries have outlawed dog breeds, as opposed to outlawing the actions of immoral people.' are not encyclopaedic CheesyBiscuit (talk) 15:13, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Do you think all the recent changes have this problem? If not, please take the time to go through them and restore the good edits.--Dodo bird (talk) 22:27, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, change by change: 1. there's no need to have a list of 10 other breeds in the intro (though this can stay later in the article) 2. 20% white - ok 3. next para - ok 4. 'Regrettably, some countries have outlawed dog breeds, as opposed to outlawing the actions of immoral people.' - complete pov-pushing 5. says 'and his brither' - is that supposed to be brother? CheesyBiscuit (talk) 11:56, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

And this bit: 'The Argentine Dogo was first bred in the 1920s from ten different dog breeds, the Cordoban Fighting Dog, the Pointer, the Boxer, the Great Dane, the Bull Terrier, the Bulldog, the Irish Wolfhound, the Dogue de Bordeaux, and the Great Pyrenees for the purpose of big-game hunting, primarily puma, cougar and wild boar.' doesn't belong is the 'fighting' section, as it's already in the 'history' section. I don't think any of RedThunderBuster's edits, apart from the 20% white bit, add anything to the article - if people feel they do, please justify their addition here. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 12:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Needless to say, they should be cited as well, if we really want to improve this article. Miyagawa (talk) 18:15, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely agree. I'm going to try to find references for the stuff that is there at the moment, when I get a chance. It at least reads better now than it used to - before it was essentially a dog-owners guide - but I agree that most of what is there needs better referencing. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 18:36, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember seeing a PDF of a dutch author's article from a dog magazine on her webpage regarding the Dogo Argentino - if I can remember where it is I'll incorporate that information into the article.Miyagawa (talk) 18:39, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE could people add SOURCED content in an encylopaedic style. Content like this 'To have a healthy dog you must feed it well with very healthy food, share lots of time exercising and show much love' does not belong in an encyclopaedia, however well it's sourced. Content like this 'these individuals have managed to ruin the dogs reputation in certain countries' and this 'This breed is also illegal in New Zealand and Norway due to bad PR' is unsourced, biased material, however it is rephrased. And it's poor grammar. PLEASE discuss controversial edits like this on this page, don't just keep adding it back into the article! If you wish to find (sourced) material on the rightness or wrongness of the UK's dangerous dogs act, for example, the appropriate place to put it is in the article on the act, not here. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 09:12, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

[unindent] Good call on the move too! CheesyBiscuit (talk) 09:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

And this 'The Dogo Argentino was bred from the Great Dane, Boxer, Spanish Mastiff, Old English Bulldog, Bull Terrier, Great Pyrenees, Pointer, Irish Wolfhound and Dogue de Bordeaux and the Cordoba Fighting Dog. Martinez kept improving the resulting breed via selective breeding to introduce the desired traits. The first standard for the Dogo Argentino was written in 1928.' may be useful (if it were sourced), but it belongs in the history section. Adding it to the start of the fighting section is disingenuous. RedThunderBuster in particular, I've assumed you've made those edits in good faith twice, but now you've made essentially the same edits 3 times with no explanation on the talk page. It's starting to look very much like you're trying to push the point of view that this dog is not dangerous, rather than trying to improve the quality of the article. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 09:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I think the information that's being added and then removed would be fine as long as it's corrected sourced to somewhere that meets the WP:SOURCES requirements. Otherwise, considering the context of this being a dog that's mostly banned across the English speaking world (and this being the English speaking Wikipedia), it would not be reflecting a neutral point of view and could even constitute original research (and therefore should be removed). Miyagawa (talk) 09:50, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

That's much better! I think criticism - positive or negative - of the dangerous dogs act probably belongs in an article on the act, rather than here, but I don't object to the current wording (apart from a couple of minor spelling changes I've made) CheesyBiscuit (talk) 11:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Biased dog bull

What I see is biased fighting among wikipedia users, and not only on this dogo page! Delete, delete and insert bullsh*t! Check out history and click 500. Firstly, the breed is named Dogo Argentino. Type Argentine Dogo in google and see what happens, then try and type Dogo Argentino! Do you think Internet users know this other name for this fairly obscure breed. Dogo Argentino is what the kennel clubs call this breed. --WhiteLightningLady (talk) 21:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC) And whaterver happened with this addition

"To have a healthy dog you must feed it well with very healthy food, share lots of time exercising and show much love. Argentine Dogos have a very keen sense of smell, and if they are not eating what they are offered, as with all dogs, then this means another type of food should be offered for the food may be about to be recalled. On average dogs have 320,000 nasal receptors compared with 40,000 in the average human."

Back to deaf dogs? If we are to state any dog breed is deaf, then let us at least see a correct cite, not cites about deafness. --WhiteLightningLady (talk) 21:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I removed that paragraph because instructions like that don't belong in an encyclopaedia, they sound like they've come from a guide to looking after dogs. The line about nasal receptors isn't particularly relevant to this article either. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 12:14, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Nasal resistors are the front line of dogs. Not humans CheesyBiscuit stop vandalizing this page by deleting relevant information!--83.17.25.219 (talk) 17:03, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

This is not vandalism. I don't think those edits, nor your recent changes, are encylopaedic. If you disagree, please discuss them on this page before adding them to the article. Also, please assume good faith on the part of editors such as drmies. It would also help if you got yourself an account. If you need help with any of these things, ask - I'm sure lots of people will be willing to help you. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 17:07, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

References

Bias?

Article seems a little bit biased to how wonderful the Argentine Dogo is. It's actually an evil bastard of a dog, but I'll try and get the POV somewhere in the middle of that. Proto t c 13:06, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I've never known any of the breed, so I have no input, and even if I had known a couple, that probably wouldn't be enough to give me an NPOV. So if you can manage it, do it-- Elf | Talk 20:51, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Saying it's "an evil bastard of a dog" is more bias to me? ShotokanTuning 07:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

This breed is one of 4 banned in the UK, guess they banned it because it was misunderstood rather than a menace ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.73.176.21 (talk) 11:19, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

"Evil bastard of a dog"? Not hardly. You've either never met a Dogo in the fur, or have met only badly-bred Dogos. Though the Dogo is not a dog for a first-time owner because of its size and stubbornness, a dog-savvy owner will find it to be a wonderful companion - steady, even temperament, loyal and loving, intuitive and perceptive, easy-going when not working, and both fierce and tenacious when "on the job", hunting. My female is a certified therapy dog, doing pet-assisted therapy visits in nursing homes, hospitals, and assisted living facilities. She is especially good with Alzheimer's patients, whose loud voices, sudden movements, and occasional grabbing-and-hugging would intimidate a softer dog. My male pup, though still too young to take the certification test, is going to be an awesome therapy dog too, he's already got all the right instincts. He also just began training to be a Search and Recovery dog.

Hunter, therapy dog, family companion and protector, SAR, agility, obedience, tracking - there's nothing this dog can't do. SnowyDogz 20:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It is impossible to avoid some element of bias when talking about interaction with a group as a whole. It is also impossible to avoid words like "typical", "usually" and "commonly" when describing a breed of dog, because the entire concept of a dog "breed" is a group of animals that exhibits (literally) "breed typical" behavioral and phenotypic traits. I have attempted to write a "temperament" section that fairly and accurately describes the temperament and character of these dogs. They are neither "evil bastards" nor "wonderful pets". They are working animals developed for the express purpose of doing battle with large and dangerous game animals. They don't make great pets for people who just want a dog to hang around, look cool, and decorate the back yard. They do make great pets for people with an active lifestyle and an interest in a dog-related sport or pursuit, like tracking or search-and-rescue. As feral hog populations are tremendously destructive to the agriculture of the United States (costing approximately $800 million in damages per year), their major work is likely to continue to be hog hunting, even within the US. 16:53, 9 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.188.131 (talk)

Has anyone that says only certain types of dogs can be aggressive ever watched The Dog Whisperer? ANY dog, even a tea cup poodle can bite or attack people if it’s not trained properly! It’s the owners not the dogs that are giving certain breeds bad names.--Doglover0813 (talk) 07:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Check the references, please

Arbitrary and incorrect references: I corrected reference 19, which previously referred to the book 'Big Dog breeds'. If you check that reference the dog breeds mentioned in that book concerning the genealogy (make-up) of the Dogo argentino do not at all correspond to the dog breeds mentioned in the Wkipedia article. However, the Wikipedia article is correct and the current reference is closer and probably the one that was used originally to write the Wikipedia article. [User:Calixthe|…Calixthe]]^talk —Preceding undated comment added 13:13, 9 March 2011 (UTC).

Editors and administrators are being disruptive vandals to this page, i.e. De728631 GraYoshi2x shifted to Grayshi CheesyBiscuit reverted; please use discussion page before vandalizing, i.e. deleting work! And check the references, please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.17.25.219 (talk) 17:14, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Why don't you quit aggressively WP:OWNing the article and reverting edits that try to keep the page free of your questionable writing? …Grayshi ^{talk ■ my contribs} 23:37, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

book Oogy

If anyone is interested, there is currently a book out called Oogy: The Dog Only a Family Could Love by Larry Levin. It's a very moving story about a Dogo puppy that was used as a bait dog in pit bull fighting. it's heart breaking but inspirational as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.57.193.149 (talk) 14:08, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Appearance changes

i notice from time to time someone either changes the height and weight under the appearance section, or adds incorrect heights and weights to the text under pictures. the maximum weight of 120 pounds, and maximum heights of 29" and 27" for males and females are not given by any authority. the martinez breed standard stated 60-65cm and current fci,ukc and akc state 62-68cm. the original standard stated weight should be 40-45kg or 88.2-99.2 pounds, with the current authorities stating they should be proportionate as far as weight goes. a 29" 120lb male may be proportionate, but over 68cm (26.77") would be an automatic disqualifier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.89.100.62 (talk) 14:34, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Horribly Incomplete

1. Dr. Antonio Nores Martinez and his brother Augustin Martinez bred the dog to be both a fearless hunter AND a family guard dog. Therefore the Dugo is both brave and "family friendly."
2. Because the idea was to breed a dog that was both fearless AND easygoing the brothers started with the Cordoba Fighting Dog AND the Great Pyrenees, Irish Wolfhound, Pointer, Great Dane, Dogue de Bordeaux, Boxer, Spanish Mastiff, Bulldog, and Bull Terrier. The Great Pyrenees, Irish Wolfhound, Pointer, Boxer and Great Dane are ALL known to be good companion dogs to humans. To leave this breed list OUT of the article does the unique bio-engineering job the Martinez brothers ill justice. In short they got the very best traits of the Cordoba Fighting Dog (its fearlessness) and bread out it's aggressive nature before the CFD became extinct. This breeding program is meticulously well documented and to leave it out of the article makes it highly inaccurate and extremely questionable.
3. I have personally come into a Dugo's life about mid-way through his life-span. Once I was introduced by his owner I was perceived by the dog as a welcome family (pack) member and alpha.
4. As a perceived friendly pack member, the Dugo would lean against me, sit at (or on) my feet, and head-bump me whenever I paid a visit. All of these are canine signs of affection.
5. I might visit once every six months or so, but the Dugo always knew who I was. He had a long memory.
6. Though the size of the dog and it's appearance of fierceness makes establishing alpha status a daunting task for any human, it is not only possible, it is quite easy. Dugo's are quite intelligent and have long memories. They also are very anxious to please the human pack member once alpha status is established.
7. "evil bastard of a dog" is wildly inaccurate, unless the accuser is an unwelcome intruder in the dog's immediate territory. Then all bets are off.
8. The Martinez brothers had two sayings about their breed. "The Dugo lays on your feet; not at your feet." "With most breeds an intruder is detected when the dog barks; with a Dugo an intruder is detected when he yells."
9. Dugo's have deep strong voices, but the do not bark very often.

William J Bean (talk) 03:37, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

40-45 kg ummmm no, I know many dogo none of which are that light it'd have to be emaciated. the one that I have personally is 80-85 kg he is a male Laluna2354 (talk) 11:42, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:06, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

partial copyvio?

The Appearance section seems to be taken verbatim from [1] but the rest of the new article is modified or is from elsewhere, so I'm hesitant to copyvio the whole thing. Elf | Talk 03:17, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm just going to take a look now - I note that the original page is no longer as it was, but there is a link via the WayBack Machine. If there is still a problem, the appearance section can probably be marked by itself. The Parson's Cat (talk) 19:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Look had. Looking at the history, I see the exact problem - but it looks like subsequent edits have dealt with it. The Parson's Cat (talk) 19:13, 24 March 2022 (UTC)