Talk:Domestic responses to the Libyan civil war (2011)

Scope of article

Should this be expanded to all Libyan officials who are known to resign during the protests? If so, where's the scope limit. I need to find the source (one of two newspapers), but it's been reported that two senior colonels have defected. Do they make the list? —C.Fred (talk) 18:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Indented line Yeah, good point. I think it should be limited to "senior" officials, which of course is vague, too. I would include them, if they're really senior military officials (as reported in some reports) Derjanosch (talk) 18:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it might be better to merge this into 2011 Libyan protests#Libyan Official Resignations. We're getting a little too close to realtime news coverage here. Ucucha 18:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It's certainly part of 2011 Libyan protests, but not sure if that's not a bit beyond that. But I'd be up for that. Derjanosch (talk) 19:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I merged both lists, maybe we keep both, but do this one a bit more extensively? Derjanosch (talk) 19:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

When I started this list on the 2011 Libyan protests article, I didn't really know how this would play out. I am glad that others have cleaned it up and will expand. For my two cents, I would expand this article with resignations and active protests by officials (statements rather than resignations), rename it "List of Libyan officials who protested or resigned during 2011 protests" possibly with dates and notes added. user:mnw2000 03:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Moving seems to be a good idea, do you want to do that? My account is not old enough to do so. Derjanosch (talk) 10:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

This list is going to get much larger. How about using a chart such as below instead:

Country/ Organization	Official	Date	Notes
Arab League	Ambassador Abdulmoneim al-Honi	20 February 2011	The reason for his resignation was the "oppression against protesters".
United Nations	Deputy Ambassador Ibrahim Omar Al Dabashi		Did not resign but distances himself from the Libyan government
Bangladesh	Ambassador
European Union and Belgium	Ambassador
China	Second Secretary to the ambassador Hussein Sadiq al Musrati		He also called on the army to intervene and called for all Libya's diplomats to resign
India	Ambassador Ali al-Essawi
Indonesia	Ambassador Salaheddin M. El Bishari
Malaysia	Embassy staff		Distanced themselves from the government and called the protests a "massacre."
Poland	Ambassador
Sweden	Non-diplomatic embassy staff
United States of America	Ambassador Ali Adjali, Counsel Saleh Ali Al Majbari and Jumaa Faris		Ambassador did not initially resign even though he distanced himself from the Libyan government However, he resigned on 22 February saying he does not serve the "dictatorship."

Contrary to previous reports, the Ambassador of Libya to the United Kingdom has not resigned, but did not want to discuss his support for Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi.

user:mnw2000 17:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

excellent, do you want to implement that? Derjanosch (talk) 21:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Are you guys sure you want to be keeping and updating this list? If the protests falter this could easily become a death-list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.2.218.132 (talk) 22:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Ambassadors are public lists, you can find them on websites of different foreign ministries (or on the embassy website itself). Now if we start listing clerks and interns, then that will be a problem. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 13:42, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

07:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC)07:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC)70.49.105.2 (talk) 07:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC) Wonder if you want to add this:

"OTTAWA (AFP) – A senior diplomat has quit his post at the Libyan embassy in Ottawa in protest at Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi's crackdown on anti-regime protesters, a Canadian newspaper said Wednesday.

Ihab Al-Mismari, son of Kadhafi's former protocol chief Nuri Al-Mismari, told the Toronto Star he resigned as counsellor because the embassy's charge d'affaires was "hiding" the gravity of the deadly crackdown back home.

"They are killing the friends with whom I grew up, they are killing my brothers and sisters."

taken from http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110223/wl_canada_afp/libyapoliticsunrestcanadadiplomacy

References

A request

It would be helpful if the dates of the resignation/defections of each individual were given. Except for the table of diplomatic personnel, few such dates have been provided. Doing so offers a rough gauge for how the conflict is going. (No matter how vicious or murderous Qaddafi & his sons are, if his side is winning, few if any of his followers are likely to defect. At most, they will lie low & make up excuses while figuring out how to flee to safety beyond Qaddafi's reach.) -- llywrch (talk) 18:36, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Defection of Saif Al Arab Gaddafi

Has Gaddafi's son Saif Al Arab really defected? Although I closely followed the events, I have read this the first time here - the source is Press TV (Iran-sponsored)...is this confirmed elsewhere?134.155.36.48 (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Ali Treki

Hi. Ali Treki seems to have defected. Regards --Youssef (talk) 17:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Some more defections Al-Jazeera article - ArnoldPlaton (talk) 23:21, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Name of article

I reorganized the sections so they would reflect the 'new name' this article was given. Flatterworld (talk) 00:04, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Abdelati Obeidi

Abdelati Obeidi is the deputy foreign minister? He may have gone to Tunisia . Waiting confirmation. I do not know if it is an official visit or a resignation--Youssef (talk) 14:31, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

References

Merge proposal

Muammar Gadaffi has never left Libya at any time relevant to this war, so his response to it qualifies as a mere subset of this article of larger encompassing scope. His is only the opinion of one and we should be careful not to grant it the WP:UNDUE size that comes from its current status of a separate and somewhat expansive treatment.DontHammerMuammarRepealJalil (talk) 12:35, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Saeed al-Aribi "quit his job"

I removed an edit [4] re. Saeed al-Aribi quit his job and joined the rebels because I do not consider the reference given [5] (ie, a blog) to be a reliable source, in accord with the policies on verifiability, particularly with respect to facts about living people (WP:BLP).  Chzz  ►  02:01, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Reverted. It is evident that you didn't actually check what it was, but just saw the word "blog" and then reverted. However, this is not some random blog, but Al Jazeera. Furthermore, if you check the reference list you will see that Al Jazeera's blog on Libya is used as a reference numerous times (intially when things moved very fast, Al Jazeera had a new blog daily, but since news has slowed down, the changes are less frequent). 62.107.192.166 (talk) 04:10, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I did check it, of course; and didn't consider it to have appropriate 'editorial control' and 'reputation for fact-checking and accuracy', and in controversial edits regarding living people, we are advised to err on the side of caution. Please do not keep adding the same material repeatedly, until there is an agreed consensus here. I will raise the matter on Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard noticeboard. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  04:23, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Link is Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Domestic responses to the 2011 Libyan civil war.  Chzz  ►  04:35, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll reply here (not sure if I should add the comment in the above link): This is not a random blog. Check the authors: Al Jazeera Staff, i.e. the journalists of the single most widely used media in the Arabian world. You'd be hard pressed to find a source that is placed higher on WP:RS. Even more puzzling that this case was singled out, while the numerous other sections in this article that use the exact same blog (just for other dates) remain! If the Al Jazeera blogs written by their staff were considered unreliable, we'd also need a bot to deal with it, because pretty much every article that is related to the recent events in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain and Syria use them as references. 62.107.192.166 (talk) 04:53, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Here is the best place; thanks. The notice on BLPN will, hopefully, bring more opinions to this page - keeping the discussion in one place. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  04:55, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

The following 2 comments were copied over from the BLP noticeboard [6]  Chzz  ►  16:43, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

• I agree - That source alone is pretty poor and they comment taking no responsibility for it themselves and they don't attribute any sources. But he does seem to have said this on Al Arabiya television that he was resigning and joining the rebels. on Thurs May 12. bloomberg - its been reported around a fair bit - reuters-africa - to quote from there for discussion purposes only - "In response to the souls and blood of the martyrs of the February 17 revolution, I, Faraj Saeed al-Aribi, the Libyan consul in Cairo, declare my resignation and my joining of the February 17 revolution," al-Aribi told the television channel. Off2riorob (talk) 09:59, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
• The source appears to meet the WP:RS criteria. It's a WP:NEWSORG and the same as a CNN live blog. I would like to know why it is considered not to be a RS, I notice no objective reason has yet been put forward. User:My76Strat seems to be under the mistaken belief that blogs are never a reliable source for BLP's. See Barack Obama a featured article for a BLP Barack_Obama#cite_ref-216 amoung others. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 14:12, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Just to clarify, my objection regards content which is specifically contentious. That a blog can support a benign fact is not at issue. My76Strat (talk) 05:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Old discussion, but for future reference, there is a clear wiki policy regarding this type of blogs as a reliable sources. Quote from WP:NEWSBLOG, a subsection of WP:RS: "Several newspapers host columns they call blogs. These are acceptable as sources if the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." Since some of these blogs (at least the ones by Al Jazeera and CNN) sometimes quote comments by users, which they clearly identify as such in the blogs, it is however very important to also note that "Never use posts left by readers as sources." 62.107.222.79 (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

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