Talk:Dorothy Moon

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"Far-right"

Moved from User talk:Taxmiester

 – ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello, it looks like you are attempting to make changes to the Dorothy Moon article on Wikipedia, specifically the designation of her being labeled as "far right." Normally I'm opposed to labeling politicians and other individuals with those titles, but she has been named as a far right/radical individual by many publications (see the citations of the article). A journalist put their credibility on the line to address this, and more than one has done this. You are seeking to change her status as a "far right" politician to a right-wing or something... here's the problem. The "far right" label is sourced. The contention that you have is not with Wikipedia or certain users here, it's with the journalists who decided to name her as a far-right Republican. You need to take issue with them, and not continue to change the same thing on the same article every few days. That label isn't going anywhere.
Please let me know if I can be of assistance to you. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 21:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Far-Right has a definition. Dorothy Moon does not meet that definition of Far-Right, and it sounds like you are not willing to discuss it.

From Wikipedia's page on Far-Right:

"Historically used to describe the experiences of Fascism, Nazism, and Falangism, far-right politics now include neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, the Third Position, the alt-right, racial supremacism, National Bolshevism (culturally only) and other ideologies or organizations that feature aspects of authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, theocratic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and/or reactionary views." Taxmiester (talk) 14:31, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Far-Right has a definition. Dorothy Moon does not meet the definition of Far-Right, and it sounds like the editor is not willing to discuss it. Dorothy is simply farther right of the center line than the left would like. The sourced material is all op-ed pieces with the authors using Far-Right hyperbole to make a point, and should not be enough to label Dorothy Moon Far-Right or extremist.

From Wikipedia's page on Far-Right:

"Historically used to describe the experiences of Fascism, Nazism, and Falangism, far-right politics now include neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, the Third Position, the alt-right, racial supremacism, National Bolshevism (culturally only) and other ideologies or organizations that feature aspects of authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, theocratic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and/or reactionary views." Taxmiester (talk) 14:38, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

As for your cites:

1. 1 – Is and opinion piece that calls John Birch Society a Far-Right Organization. They are not Racist Neo-Nazis. This article was written by left-wing journalist and is an opinion piece, it is no surprise they are spreading so much misinformation. The use of far-right to describe them is pure political hyperbole and nothing more.
2. 2 – Another opinion piece written by a democrat using hyperbole to make his point.
3. 3 – Does not link to the article referenced.
4. 4 – Does not even mention Dorothy Moon in the political op-ed.

None of these articles show how these Republicans are linked to the Far-Right. The left makes statements using hyperbole but never connect the dots. Far-Right has a definition that these politicians, including Ms. Moon, do not rise to. Taxmiester (talk) 23:49, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

For the record, the citations discussed above are:

1. David Smith, 'Republican and more Republican': Idaho shifts ever rightward, The Guardian (May 11, 2022): "elections for other offices of state are more competitive between the hard right and harder right. ... Dorothy Moon, a member of the far-right John Birch Society, is a contender for secretary of state."
2. James Dawson, Idaho Gov. Brad Little wins GOP primary over Trump's pick, Lt. Gov. Janice McGeachin, Boise State Public Radio News (May 17, 2022): "Other far-right candidates are following McGeachin's lead by seeking statewide office in the Republican Party primary. ... Two state lawmakers, Dorothy Moon and Mary Souza, who both falsely insist that President Biden lost the 2020 presidential election, want to become Idaho secretary of state."
3. "Idaho GOP rejects abortion exception to save mother's life". Washington Post. ISSN 0190-8286. Retrieved 2022-07-19.
4. "2022 Idaho Primary Election Results". PBS NewsHour. 2022-05-16. Retrieved 2022-07-19.

As the reliability of the sources and the neutrality of the statement are currently disputed, I'm removing the term "far-right" from the article's first sentence. It should only be restored if a consensus to restore it is found in the RfC below (cf. WP:BLPRESTORE). ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:34, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

I just wanted to link here from WP:BLPN and now noticed that Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Dorothy_Moon already exists. I'll invite the previous discussion's participants, AndyTheGrump and Nomoskedasticity, here. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:50, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Request for comment

Should the article about Dorothy Moon describe her as "far-right"? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:24, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

• Yes, pretty evidently. To be frank, the concerns raised by the WP:SPA (literally only registered in order to make this edit and having only made edits to this page or complaining about this page) are see-through and frivolous - complaining about the journalists of the articles being "left-wing" or "Democrats" rather than engaging with content. An abundance of sources describe her as far-right or having ties to far right (similar to what's displayed in the lede for Marjorie Taylor Greene's page, as shown in the lede - for example, the four in the lede () and then 5, 6, 7, 8 (from a WP:RSP), 9, 10, 11, 12.. I could go on. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 18:35, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes, of course -- Ser has done all the work that's needed here. This is a frivolous RfC, given the obviousness of the answer. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 19:06, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes per Ser. They got everything covered here, including multiple citations. Sarrail (talk) 19:30, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes, per Ser's sourcing.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:55, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes, easily. John Birch Society membership alone about does it. --BDD (talk) 20:19, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes. Ser has amply demonstrated that Moon is frequently described thus in reliable sources. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:50, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes that would be correct. Mnair69 (talk) 08:16, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes it's what several credible sources say. I don't agree with these kinds of labels anyway, but it's literally what the credible sources say. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 01:23, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes If the sources call her that, then so should we. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:59, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
• Yes, but the first sentence should not. It's just bad writing. I've answered multiple RfC's today where somebody was putting something in the first sentence, typically criticism. The answer to that is pretty much always "no". Adoring nanny (talk) 18:21, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
• Yes, but the first sentence should not. Gotta ditto this. Principally, she is an American politician who serves as a Republican member of Idaho House of Representatives. Period. She has been described as far right. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 19:25, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
• Yes, but not in first sentence: Per User:PerpetuityGrat's reasoning. --1990'sguy (talk) 21:03, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

References