Talk:Dravidian parties/Good article review
Initial review by Noble Story
editOK, this article needs an extensive copyedit, which I'll try to provide, but it will be very, very long, and I don't want to exhaust myself right now. I really wish people would thoroughly go over the articles before nominating it for GA, instead of treating it like a peer review.
OK, anyway, ignore my rant (It comes from reviewing many sloppy articles).So, this is what needs to happen (besides copyediting):
- The sections in the "Rise of Dravidian parties" are rather short. They could probably be merged, or expanded.
- "Parties which are not an offshoot of DK" Again, the section should be merged or expanded.
- I think for "Electoral symbols of the Dravidian parties" and "Flags", don't put the images into a gallery. I think you should incorporate them into the text, if possible.
- I tried to move the images around (and even avoiding a few images). In my opinion it makes it look very untidy. Would you think a collage would be a better choice? Cheers Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:25, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- "Impact" should not be a list; it should be paragraph form.
- Doing... Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:25, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Done and awaiting your reply in the point three. Cheers Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 15:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Doing... Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:25, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
If I see the necessary (positive) changes, I'll endeavor to go for a copy edit.
Noble Story (talk) 11:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for your comments. I have done a few changes as per your recommendations and will soon sort out the other points you raised as well. Cheers Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Lead
edit"Dravidian parties include an array of regional political parties in the state of Tamil Nadu, India which trace their origins and ideologies either directly or indirectly to Dravidian movement of Periyar E. V. Ramasamy."
It should be "the Dravidian movement".
"They are usually offshoots of Dravidar Kazhagam (DK), but there are also a few other parties today that are not the offspring of Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) directly, but are still considered as one of the Dravidian parties, because of the similarities in ideals and goals."
You just gave the full name and abbreviation. I don't think you need to do it again.
"DMK and its political rival AIADMK had been the major players of the Dravidian parties. These two parties have emerged as giants to dominate Tamil Nadu politics since the mid-1960s."
These two statements say basically the same thing. You shoud delete one or the other.
"Either DMK or AIADMK formed Tamil Nadu State Government ever since the 1967 election."
Shouldn't you say, "Policitians from either DMK or AIADMK have formed the Tamil Nadu State Government ever since the 1967 election."?
"Since the 1990s no other political party had won more than a few seats in the Indian parliament or state legislative assembly from Tamil Nadu unless it makes electoral alliance with either."
Comma after "1990s". And "has made", not "makes".
"These two parties are political rivals."
Which two parties? Why not put it closer to the two parties first sentence?
"Dravidian politics has developed into an inclusive Tamil nationalism by associating the Dravidian community with the non-Sanskritic Tamil language and cultural tradition."
OK, I've just been given a sentence which means nothing to me. What does "Tamil nationalism" mean? And what is the "Dravidian community"? And what is a "non-Sanskritic Tamil language"?
Actually, it would be best to start off by defining Dravidian, preferably at the very start of the lead.
The lead is also too short. It needs to be a summary of the overall article, and this lead is not. It should be at least 2-3 paragraphs, not one.
Done Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Rise of Dravidian parties
editPre independence days
edit"The state of Tamil Nadu had been electorally dominated by the Justice Party for the first 17 years since its first legislative assembly election (then part of Madras Presidency) until its defeat in 1937."
What is Tamil Nadu?
- Tamil Nadu is already twice mentioned in the lead as the state of Tamil Nadu, India and the one recently added Tamil Nadu (a south Indian state). I don't think we can explain more than that. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"The Justice party government spearheaded the implementation of a communal reservation policy, perhaps for the first time in the country, and an enactment to bring temples under state control."
Capitalize "party".
"There was a massive agitations across the Province against the introduction of Hindi as a compulsory subject of study in schools by a Congress-led government which lead to detainment of scores of Tamil scholars, academics and Justice Party leaders."
Say "there were...". And try to say something less dramatic besides "massive agitations". And put a comma after "government". Also, this sentence seems like a run-on. Try re-forming or splitting.
"This and other fight for social justice helped create the social base of what emerged as the Dravidian Movement."
"Other fight for social justice" really doesn't make sense.
- Those other fights are not much within the scope of this entry. To clarify, the other revolution were introduction of self-respect marriages and atheistic movements (and violence that were associated with it) should get into the Self-Respect Movement (other name for Dravidian Movement) entry. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"Even after independence in the first election of the Indian republic in 1952 Tamil Nadu saw an upset by denying the Congress party an absolute majority, in contrast to most of the rest of India."
Put a comma after "independence". And I don't think the state actually physically "saw" an upset. And who denied the Congress part a majority? Wouldn't it be the state?
Also, capitalize "party".
- Done Wiki San Roze †αLҝ
"In 1944 the Justice Party under its then leader Periyar underwent a name change to Dravidar Kazhagam and withdrew from parliamentary politics."
Comma after the year, after "Party", and after "Periyar". And maybe translate what "Dravidar Kazhagam" means.
Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam
edit"Disputes within the Dravidar Kazhagam, since 1947 when leaders like C. N. Annadurai had opposed Periyar's call for abandoning India's independence celebrations, climaxed with personal differences between the leaders and the eventual formation of Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam in 1949"
OK, this sentence is really long. Maybe take out or isolate the phrase "since 1947 when leaders like C. N. Annadurai had opposed Periyar's call for abandoning India's independence celebrations". And translate "Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam".
"The DMK although picking-up the separation thread from its parent organisation, its leaders Annadurai and E. V. K. Sambath upheld the principles of democratic party organisation."
OK, another unclear sentence. I think what you're trying to say is "The DMK picked up the separation thread from its parent organisation, and its leaders, Annadurai and E. V. K. Sambath, upheld the principles of democratic party organisation."
"But faced with the reality of an independent India just setting in motion the democratic process under a new Constitution, it preferred to keep the issue on the backburner."
"Just setting"...You should probably lose the "just". Also, what is "it"?
"The DMK's main target was the Central government "controlled by the northerners". The party highlighted the problems arising out of the `North-South divide' - the `neglect of the South' in sanctioning development projects, delay in the allotment of funds for the sanctioned projects, and attempts to `impose' Hindi, `the language of the North', on the `unwilling people' of the South."
If these are quotes from something, use a source. And use double quotation marks (").
"Its massive agitation against the "imposition of Hindi" in 1965 catapulted the party to political power in the State in the 1967 elections."
Whose massive agitation? And I don't think you should use the words "massive agitation".
"The electoral victory in 1967 was made possible by `an accord on seat adjustment' among the non-Congress parties `to avoid a split in the Opposition vote'."
Again, if it's a quote, use a source. And what is an "accord on seat adjustment"? Explain.
"Interestingly, it was Rajagopalachari, who had by then left the Congress and launched the right-wing Swatantra Party, who was instrumental in bringing about this electoral arrangement."
Who is Rajagopalachari?
"In 1971, the then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi sought a fresh mandate from the people by advancing the Lok Sabha elections within a year, following a vertical split in the Indian National Congress, with almost all the senior leaders in the party united against her."
How can you advance an election within a year? And what is a vertical split?
"For DMK Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi, who was consolidating his position in the organisation following the death in harness of his predecessor and party leader Annadurai, the timing of the elections came as a boon."
How can you die "in harness"?
- Done all concerns sorted. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Split in DMK and birth of AIADMK
edit"In the 70s he was the then party treasurer had brought his fans to the party and also playing a vital part in popularising the party's ideologies."
OK, first, keep the tense consistent. Also, "he was the then party treasurer had brought" is not grammatically correct.
"The political feud between MGR and the then party president Karunanidhi emerged as an aftermath of the latter calling himself "Mujib of Tamil Nadu"."
Don't call him by his nickname, use his full last name.
- Sorry. He is much more popular as MGR rather than his full name. This is mainly because there were quite a few other film stars called Ramachandran during his early days of acting career. I really think this should stay as MGR. Well thats my opinion for now. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"After the electoral victory of DMK in 1971, some of the members expressed concerns over the growing popularity and strenght of MGR."
Why the italics? Is it a quote?
- Yes, it is Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"Karunanidhi made several attempts to weaken MGR's position in the party and MGR retaliating with curruption charges"
Use consistent tense. And corruption is misspelled.
"MGR called for a boycott of the party's General Council. With the crisis falling suspension of MGR from the General Council, emerged a new party, Anna DMK (AIADMK)."
These two sentences can be combined, and the second sentence is a fragment. And I can't make sense of it, either.
"In 1977 the DMK government led by Karunanidhi was dismissed under corruption charges by the Central government of India which had by then allied with AIADMK."
Put a comma after "1977", "Karunanidhi", and "India".
Also, if you only have one section, you don't need to make a subsection.
Further divisions
edit"Barring, perhaps, their approach to issues such as Tamil Eelam, the Dravidian parties do not have major ideological differences, particularly in respect of State autonomy, constitutional protection to the reservation formula and making Tamil an official language of the Indian Union."
What does this have to do with MDMK?
- Done Sentence rephrased Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"This was opposed by former actress and a politician J Jayalalitha[14] and eventually was met with dismissal of the AIADMK government (the shortest lived government in the history of Tamil Nadu), by the then Central Government of India lead by Rajiv Gandhi and the splitting of the party into two."
This sentence is a run-on.
- Done Sentence rephrased Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"Other breakaways witnessed were with R. M. Veerappan and S. Tirunavukkarasu breaking away from AIADMK in 1990s after personal differences with the party chief Jayalalitha and forming MGR Kazhagam and MGR ADMK respectively."
You don't need to bold the party names. And fix the redlinks.
Parties which are not an offshoot of DK
edit"The Pattali Makkal Katchi (PMK) is of recent origin and it relies on the voting strength of Vanniar caste."
No need to bold.
"Its major planks include meaningful and effective reservation for people from the most backward classes (MBCs) and other socially oppressed sections such as Dalits and the tribal people. "
What are "planks"? And why do you need to give an abbreviation for "most backward classes"?
- Planks as in articles of political of a political platform (ref dab page:Plank).
"Another major Dravidian party which is not an offshoot of DK is Desiya Murpokku Dravida Kazhagam (or DDMK) was launched by Tamil film star Vijayakanth,who had earlier converted his fan clubs into service organisations. initially as typical, Dravidian, for-the-Tamils."
The first sentence is a run-on, the second is a fragment.
"Although the DMK and the AIADMK started playing some role in the decision-making process at the Centre from the beginning of the late 1960s, their actual participation in coalition governments came only in 1979, when two AIADMK Members of Parliament, Satyavani Muthu and Aravinda Bala Pajanor, joined the short-lived Charan Singh Ministry which followed the Morarji Desai-led Janata Party government (1977-79)."
What is the "Centre"? And put a comma after "Ministry".
- Done rephrased Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Ideology
editDravidianism and Tamilism
edit"The principal ideals and goals of Dravidian parties at its incipience which were borrowed from Dravidar Kazhagam were social reforms, such as ending religious superstitions, ending caste distinction, empowerment of women, ending Brahmin dominance in Tamil Nadu educational institutions and government, ending northern domination of politics and economy of Tamil Nadu, opposition to Hindi as India's official language and independence for Dravida Nadu from India."
What is "Dravida Nadu?
- Link to the Dravida Nadu article added. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"It can be noted that the call for Dravida Nadu in the initial days during the British Raj meant a Dravidian state under the British Raj."
Why the italics?
- Sorry was supposed to be in double quotes!
"Moreover formation of a Tamil language state in the 1960s the fulfilled the goal of a encompassing Dravidian state."
I really don't understand this sentence.
- Rephrased now. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"Since then, State autonomy and social justice through reservation for the underprivileged in education and employment have been the main political planks of the DMK."
Again, what are planks?
- Same as earlier Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"The Dravidian political ideology has evolved through years and now is varied between parties. With its initial atheistic inclination with a strict anti-Brahmin outlook of the DK, DMK moved on to the strong ethnic identity - initially that of 'the Dravidian' and later of 'the Tamilian' or 'the common Tamil man'."
What are you referring to with "anti-Brahmin outlook"? And use full quotation marks, if you need them.
- Anti-Brahminism article linked and quotations changes. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"With the rise of AIADMK post 1977 elections threw up two Chief Ministers (MGR and Jayalalitha) who were not Tamils themselves."
Again, this sentence is not clear.
- Not sure I phrased it right, but it just means that although the inital ideology of the Dravidian parties were of stringent Tamil identity, AIADMK's rise to power produced two Chief Ministers who were not Tamil. 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Leftist inclination
edit"The Self-respect movement, which is the root of the Dravidian politics, was initially forged in the mid-1920s in emulation and in critique of a Gandhian Congress Party, but by 1930s it was heavily informed by Leninist socialism, atheism and Bertrand Russell's inspired rationalism. Former Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu and the first to hold that post in the Dravidian parties, C. N. Annadurai had declared that DMK (and hence its offshoots) are genuinely communist by principle."
Why the italics? And how was it "informed"?
- Done sorted Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Media in Dravidian politics
edit"The initial propaganda for the Dravidian politics was solely based on News papers owned by its benefactors or by the organisations, and, through public gatherings."
Newspapers is mispelled.
"DMK had Murasoli as its party organ, and AIADMK with Namathu Dr MGR."
" AIADMK with Namathu Dr MGR" is ungrammatical. And how can it be its "organ"? Use something else.
- I guess the term "party organ" is commonly used to denote a journal of a political organisation [1]. Let me know if am wrong. Namathu Dr MGR is name of the journal. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"Nevertheless he was expelled from the DMK following his comments on the party as glamour party, a reaction which is attributed to his frustration of lack of recognition."
Why italics? And comma after the first word.
Television
editDon't use a list -- put it into paragraph form.
List of Dravidian parties
editMaybe you can put that up near the top, to make it more clear for the reader?
- Done Wiki San Roze †αLҝ
Flags
edit"Black and Red are the usual colours used which traces its origin to Periyar's visit to Axis countries, especially Soviet Russia, when on his arrival back home he declared that his party members would wear black shirts whenever and wherever possible. "
Put a comma after "used". And maybe split the sentence, as it's a run-on.
Impact
editRegional
edit"The anouncement in 1990 by the then Prime minister V.P. Singh that the Mandal Commission's recommendation to extend reservation in employment in the Union government to the Other Backward Classes (OBCs), would be implemented was "in accordance with the resolution to that effect, passed in the State Assembly" is claimed by DMK as its achivement."
Why the abbreviation for "Other Backward Classes"?
- Done removed Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 17:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"According to the DMK, the "creation" of 11 Navaratnas and 97 Mini-Ratnas in the public sector "with administrative and financial autonomy", during the United Front government at the Centre (1996-98) was because of the party's presence in the Cabinet."
What are "Navaratnas" and "Mini-Ratnas"?
- Done explained Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 17:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"According to a party statement, of the total investment of Rs.13,15,017 crores that has flowed into the country since liberalisation began, Tamil Nadu has received 1,51,187 crores, which is 11.5 per cent of the total investment in the country."
What are "crores"?
- Done converted to millions Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 17:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
National
edit"Since 1996 either DMK or AIADMK had been part of the central governments of India."
Didn't you already state that in the lead?
- I am under an impression that the lead should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 17:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"The inclusion of DMK in the United Front government lead by I. K. Gujral in 1997 came under crisis with the interim report of Jain Commission, which was appointed to oversee the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi, said that the then DMK government was responsible for abetting Rajiv Gandhi's murderers."
I don't think something can "come under crisis".
- Sorry but why? Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 17:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
International
edit"The Dravidian parties have played a pivotol role in the ongoing Sri Lankan civil war. M. G. Ramachandran, the then AIADMK chief is said to have donated 110 million Indian Rupees to the LTTE."
What is the LTTE?
- Done main article to LTTE linked. Earlier it was linked a few sentences below. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 17:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
"Ramadoss, party chief of PMK has recently called for the Central Government of India to interfere with the issue for an early political solution in Sri Lanka."
Why italics?
- Done now within quotations. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 17:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
References
editOK, the references really need to be formatted. Look at the citation templates and take one of them. And when you cite a book, please include all relevant information, including page number(s) and probably ISBN as well.
- Doing... Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 16:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Second review by Noble Story
editOK, first of, I think you should put your references right next to the puncuation, so there is no space after them.
Also, I think in if this is about Dravidian parties, then you should mention all or the biggest parties in the lead. And, for any non-English terms (say, the names of the parties), you should translate them into English)
- Done not in the lead but when they are mentioned in the article. I reckon adding in the lead will make it hard to read and the lead too higgledy-piggledy.Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Lead
edit"The primary goal of the Dravidian politics was to achieve social equality, but had later grown itself to champion the cause of ending domination of North India on politics and economy Tamil Nadu (a south Indian state), and thus including in itself elements of Tamil nationalism."
I think you should say "...it later championed the cause...in the politics and economy of Tamil Nadu..." And I think you should take the last phrase off into its own sentence.
"The Dravidian parties are usually offshoots of Dravidar Kazhagam (DK),[1] nevertheless, there are also a few other parties today that are not the offspring of Dravidar Kazhagam directly, but are still considered as one of the Dravidian parties, because of the similarities in ideals and goals."
Try "Most Dravidian parties are offshoots of Dravidar Kazhagam (DK); however, there are also a few other parties that did not come from DK directly...because of similar ideals and goals."
Also, if you put the abbreviation of DK in parentheses, shouldn't you use it the second time in the sentence?
"DMK and its political rival AIADMK had been the major players of the Dravidian parties since the mid-1960s."
If you're using abbreviations, then spell out the full name for at least the first time. Also, say "have been".
"Leaders of either DMK or AIADMK formed Tamil Nadu State Government ever since the 1967 election."
Say "Leaders...have headed [not really sure what you mean by "formed"] the Tamil Nadu state government since the 1967 elections [what election?]"
- I made a bit of search and found that the term formed the government is not uncommon in political media.[2] So am changing it back to what it was earlier as in the party forming the government order. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"Since the 1990s, no other political party had won more than a few seats in the Indian parliament or state legislative assembly from Tamil Nadu unless it has made electoral alliance with either and since 1996 either DMK or AIADMK had been part of the central governments of India."
First of all, what are you referring to with "made electorall alliance with either"? Second, put a comma after "Nadu", after "either", and "1996". Third, say "have been part". Fourth, what do you mean by "part of the central government of India"?
- Sorry, not sure what your question means. The electoral alliance is linked to what that term means. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"Of recent days television channels have been used for the political propaganda purposes."
Try "recently, television channels". Also, can you explain what you mean by "television channels"? Does that mean commericals, programs, or what?
- Telivision channels as in the channels themselves. TV stations or cable networks or satellite networks, as the link from the television channels would explain. The parties own these channels, if thats what you want me to clarify and done that in the article too. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Rise of Dravidian parties
editPre independence days
edit"The state of Tamil Nadu had been electorally dominated by the Justice Party for the first 17 years since its first legislative assembly election (then part of Madras Presidency) until its defeat in 1937."
Try "...was electorally dominated...of legislative assemly election." Also, what does "then part of Madras Presidency" mean? And, what are you referring to in "its defeat in 1937"?
- First part of the suggestion done, the second part I guess its loses its meaning if we say of legislative assembly election. We are talking about years after the legislative election. Elections are not held for 17 years at a stretch :D. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"The Justice Party government spearheaded the implementation of a communal reservation policy, perhaps for the first time in the country, and an enactment to bring temples under state control."
After "in the country", you should use a verb to keep parallel form (i.e. "and acted to bring temples...")
"This and other fight for social justice helped create the social base of what emerged as the Dravidian Movement."
Say "fights". Also, you are basically saying "the social base...emerged as the Dravidian Movement." Do you mean to say that the "social base" really "emerged" as an actual movement?
- Although it may sound odd, the answer to the last question is yes. That was one of unique qualities of the Dravidian movement, that it wasn't just politics based, but also society (or social) based. I actually sent you a reminder because we tend to write further expanding on such details (there are at least 6 major journal articles on it and not to mention books). Since this is not a FAC I guess this much of details are enough. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"Even after independence, in the first election of the Indian republic in 1952 the final election tally in Tamil Nadu saw an upset by denying the Congress Party an absolute majority, in contrast to most of the rest of India."
1. What independence? 2. Comma after after "1952" and "upset". 3. Say "...in 1952, the Congress Part was upset when they were denied an absolute majority in Tamil Nadu, in contrast..."
- The heading states Pre-independence days and this sentence is a link to the next section, so the word independence obviously means Indian independence. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"In 1944, the Justice Party under its then leader Periyar, underwent a name change to Dravidar Kazhagam (Dravidian organisation) and withdrew from parliamentary politics"
Comma after "Party".
Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam
edit"In 1947, when India attained independence, Periyar had called for abandoning the celebrations by the members of the Dravidar Kazhagam."
Eliminate the "had". Also, what do you mean by "celebrations"? Celebrations of what?
- The first part of the sentence says India attained independence. Obviously the word celebrations point there. If we state it as In 1947, when India attained independence, Periyar had called for abandoning the celebrations of Indian independence by the members of the Dravidar Kazhagam. it would be awefully redundant in my opinion. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"This move was opposed by other leaders within the party including C. N. Annadurai."
Comma after "party".
"This personal difference between the leaders climaxed when Periyar married a lady much younger."
"...much younger" what? It should be "younger than himself".
"The DMK picked up the separation thread from its parent organisation, and its leaders, Annadurai and E. V. K. Sambath, upheld the principles of democratic party organisation."
What do you mean by "separation thread"?
- Change it to separatist ideologies Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 14:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"The DMK's main target was the Central government "controlled by the northerners". The party highlighted the problems arising out of the "North-South divide" - the "neglect of the South" in sanctioning development projects, delay in the allotment of funds for the sanctioned projects, and attempts to "impose" Hindi, an Aryan-language, on the "unwilling people" of the South."
First of all, I think that with a quote, you should put the reference for it directly after the end of the sentence. Second, I don't think you even need all the quotes. Can't you simply paraphrase it, in neutral terms?
- Done- removed quotes where ever possible and the one I kept added reference just next to it. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
"The language issue has proved to be a major campaign point for the party ever since it opted to participate in the electoral process in 1957."
What does "electoral process"? A vote?
- Done-rephrased it. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
"The party vowed to restore Tamil to its ancient glory and appealed to the sentiments of the Tamil people through forceful writings and speeches."
"Foreceful" seems a bit too strong a word, and too POV. A softer word, perhaps.
- Done reworded Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
"On the 26th January, 1965, the fifteenth anniversary of India's constitution coming into force was suppose to mark the end of English as an official language of India and Hindi to be used as the sole official language according to the terms of constitution."
1. As per WP:DATE, say either "26 January" or January 26". But don't use the. 2. Use past tense ("supposed") 3. I think this sentence would be better worded "According to the terms of India's constitution, January 26, 1965, which was the fifteenth anniversary of India's constitution coming into force, was supposed to mark the end of English as an official language of India, and the start of Hindi as the only official language."
"Nevertheless, the Madras Anti-Hindi agitation in 1965 made the then Union Government in India change its language policy to allow English to continue as an official language."
1. Use "However" 2. What is the "Union Government"?
- Done Sorry I should have been consistent in using the term Central Government. I agree that it would mean near to nonsense for a non-Indian reader. :D Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
"This agitation catapulted the party to political power in the State in the 1967 elections"
1. Which party? 2. What kind of elections were they (local, national, etc.)?
"The electoral victory in 1967 is also reputed to an electoral fusion among the non-Congress parties to avoid a split in the Opposition votes."
What Congress are you talking about?
- Done I had the link to Indian National Congress much later. I should have messed it up as I expanded the article. Thanks for pointing that out.Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
"Interestingly, it was Rajagopalachari, who had by then left the Congress and launched the right-wing Swatantra Party, was instrumental in bringing about this electoral arrangement."
1. Say "...Party, who was instrumental..." 2. Who is Rajagopalachari? A little intro, maybe?
"In 1971, the then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi sought a fresh mandate from the people by advancing the Lok Sabha elections, following a split in the Indian National Congress, with almost all the senior leaders in the party aligned against her."
1. Try "current Prime Minister". 2. "...aligned against her." Aligned against who?
- Done Split the sentence into two, but didn't call her current Prime Minister, because she is not the current one. She died even before I learnt to pronounce her name! ;) Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Split in DMK and birth of AIADMK
edit"M. G. Ramachandran or MGR as he was popularly known was an actor of Tamil cinema and a well known propagator of Dravidian ideologies in his movies since 1953."
Try "M. G. Ramachandran, who was popularly known as MGR..."
"In the 70s as the then party treasurer, he had brought his fans to the party and also played a vital part in popularising the party's ideologies."
Treasurer of what party? And use the full date (i.e 1970s).
"Karunanidhi made several attempts to weaken MGR's position within the party, to which MGR retaliated with curruption charges and call for boycott of the party's General Council."
1. Corruption is mispelled.
2. It should be "a call for a boycott..."
"With the crisis falling into suspension of MGR from the General Council, emerged a new party, All India Anna DMK (named after Annadurai)."
I don't really understand this sentence.
- Done rephrased and one more ref addedWiki San Roze †αLҝ 12:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
"After the split with the DMK in 1972, ADMK gave Indira Gandhi's faction of the now split Indian National Congress (known as Congress (I)) an equally strong alternative with which it could ally."
What does ADMK stand for? Shouldn't it be AIADMK?
- Done sorry, AIADMK was earlier known as ADMK when it was lauched. I guess details of which will confuse the reader and makes more sense in the entry on AIADMK. So am using the abrv AIADMK consistently. Thanks a lot for pointing that out.Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 12:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
"Ever since the two Dravidian parties helped the Congress (I) sustain itself in the State with limited ambitions."
This sentence is a fragment.
"In 1977 the DMK government led by Karunanidhi was dismissed under corruption charges by the Central government of India which had by then allied with AIADMK."
1. Comma after "1977", " DMK goverment", and "Karunanidhi", and "India".
2. What do you mean by "Central"? Is that a party?
Further divisions
edit"The MDMK is yet another offshoot of the DMK. "
Full name for this party?
- Done and added a {{seealso}} Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
"Barring, perhaps, to the more radical approach to the Tamil Eelam issue, the Dravidian parties do not have major ideological differences. "
Maybe you could expand on that a little? What was the Tamil Eelam issue?
"Soon after MGR's death in 1987, his wife Janaki Ramachandran took over as Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu which was opposed by former actress and a politician J Jayalalitha."
1. Comma after "Nadu".
2. What was opposed by J Jayalalitha? Did he oppose Tamil Nadu, the Chief Minister, or Ramachandran?
"The antogonism built up and the party split into two fragments."
Should be "antagonism". Also, which party split? The Central Government, or the AIADMK? And what were the fragments called?
"The Election Commission of India refused to accept either of them as the successor of the original party and separate electoral symbols were allocated."
What are electoral symbols?
- Done linked to articled on List of political party symbols in India. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
"The 1989 state elections spelt a defeat for AIADMK leading Janaki to resign from active politics and the fragments merged to form AIADMK again."
1. Shouldn't you refer to her by her last name?
2. I think it would be better to say "The 1989 state elections spelt a defeat for AIADMK, which led Janaki to resign from active politics, and the fragments of the AIADMK to form again."
- The answer the first question is pretty complicated. Tamil names do not follow the usual first name - second name system. Details of which can be found here. Nevertheless, to cut the long story short. Tamils are usually refered to by their first name. There are usually no family or surnames, but one would use the father's first name as his/her second name. In case of women, they will drop the father's first name after marriage and take the husband's second name. For eg. for MGR, MG stands for his father's first name (Maruthur Gopala Menon) and Ramachandran is MGR's first name. His wife would take Ramachandra as her second name. In Tamil Nadu, hence, people are refered to with their first names and not by the second names. I do agree with this heavily confusing issue. This is why {{Indian name}} was created.
- The second question is dealt with Done. Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 13:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
"Other breakaways witnessed were with R. M. Veerappan and S. Tirunavukkarasu breaking away from AIADMK in 1990s after personal differences with the party chief Jayalalitha and forming MGR Kazhagam (MGR's Organisation) and MGR ADMK (MGR's and Anna's DMK) respectively"
Try rewording like: "Another breakaway was in the 1990s, when R. M. Veerappan and S. Tirunavukkarasu left the party due to personal differences with the party chief Jayalalitha and formed MGR Kazhagam (MGR's Organisation) and MGR ADMK (MGR's and Anna's DMK) respectively."
More comments coming
Noble Story (talk) 12:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Review interupted
editUnfortunately, Noble Story had to withdraw from the review sans additional comments. I hope to conclude the effort he started; see the following section. Gosgood (talk) 18:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Dravidian parties is under review as of 16:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
- Commencing: 2008-05-16
- Completed: 2008-05-20
- Nominator: Wiki San Roze
- Reviewer 1: Noble Story withdrew
- Reviewer 2: Gosgood
- First pass based on: Revision 212210417 (as edited by Iridescent (Talk | contribs) at 17:46, 13 May 2008.)
- Criteria: Revision 211523842 (as edited by Geometry guy (Talk | contribs) at 16:20, 10 May 2008. )
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. It is well written. In this respect | ||
(a) the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct; and | Oppose
| |
(b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, jargon, words to avoid, fiction, and list incorporation | Agree
| |
2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. In this respect, it: | ||
(a) provides references to all sources of information, and at minimum contains a section dedicated to the attribution of those sources in accordance with the guide to layout; | Agree A good array of references, that augment and extend the article. | |
(b) at minimum, provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons;[2] and | Agree What few unsupported passages I found seemed to be honest sins of omission | |
(c) contains no original research. | Agree | |
3. It is broad in its coverage. In this respect, it: | ||
(a) addresses the major aspects of the topic; and | Disagree On a narrow ground, the {{Dravidian parties}} includes the AILDMK party, which is absent from this survey article. On the same narrow ground, List of recognised political parties in India does not list the Desiya Murpokku Dravida Kazhagam (DMDK) party (Drum), an item covered in this article. This leaves this American reviewer, who follows Indian politics only sporatically, with a queasy feeling: that not all of the ground is being covered by this survey article.
On a broader ground, the remarkable connection between Dravidian politics and Tamil Nadu cinema seems almost taken for granted by the article, but about which this American reviewer has a sense of wonder. When TV became the new political battlefield by E. T. B. Sivapriyan and one of the article's references, captures some of this wonder, but the article itself is rather matter-of-fact about the phenomenon, as if the connection is so commonplace as to hardly require mention. This may be true in the particular locale of Tamil Nadu, but in a wider scope the connection bears elucidation. | |
(b) stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary details (see summary style). | Approve Mainly, the article confines itself to a survey of Dravidian parties, and the family tree of how they have evolved from prototype, pre-independence organizations. | |
4. It is neutral; that is, it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias. | Approve The article surveys the various parties dispassionately. | |
5. It is stable; that is, it is not the subject of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. Vandalism reversion, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing) and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of constructive editing should be placed on hold. | Agree This article appears to be largely developed by Wiki San Roze, with recent consultation from Noble Story | |
6. It is illustrated, if possible, by images. In this respect: | ||
(a) images used are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and | Support
| |
(b) the images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | Support: Could the captions furnish some information as to where and when the first two historical photographs were taken? | |
7. Overall | Fail Though well-referenced, and grinding no axes, the prose is of first draft quality, and a hard read for a Westerner. I urge the nominating editors to conduct a careful second draft; the comments below are illustrations of conditions that led me to these particular conclusions. Please do not regard them as a checklist of things to do that will result in a Good Article. The redrafting of the article will make many of the follow-on observations moot, for I expect the prose will be very different after the rewrite. |
- ^ As you might gather, some of us prefer to just get on editing articles, but I think I'm wandering off-topic now. How appropriate.
1a Well written
editLead
edit- Either DMK or AIADMK formed government in Tamil Nadu ever since the 1967 legislative assembly elections.
- Guess: Since the 1967 legislative assembly elections, only the DMK or the AIADMK have formed governments.
- Since the 1990's, no other political party had won more than a few seats in the Indian parliament or state legislative assembly from Tamil Nadu, unless it has made electoral alliance with either, and since 1996, either DMK or AIADMK had been part of the cabinet in central governments of India.
- Guess: Barring political aliances with the DMK or AIADMK, Since the 1990's, no other political party has won more than a few seats in the Indian parliament or state legislative assembly from Tamil Nadu. Since 1996, Only members of the DMK and AIADMK have held portfolios in the cabinet of the central Indian government.
- Recently television channels owned by these parties have been used for the political propaganda purposes.
- Guess: Recently television channels owned by these parties have been used for
thepolitical propaganda purposes.
- English grammar employs a part of speech called an article to indicate how a particular noun relates to an external group or class. Three words, two which are visible, are employed to indicate three kins of relationships among nouns and groups.
- The 'invisible word' (it has no letters) identifies the noun as a group (or class) identifier. 'The Daily Blurb employs editors to review stories written by reporters.' There are two job classes or groups employed by the paper, 'editors' and 'reporters.'
- 'a' and 'an' are indefinite articles. They reference generic, nonspecific items in a group. 'Bill is an editor at the Daily Blurb.' Bill edits at the paper; but we don't know what he edits.
- 'the' is a definite article. it identifies nouns as being particular members of a group: 'Bill is the city editor of the Daily Blurb.' Among the group of editors, Bill is specifically responsible for stories about the metropolis.
- Here, we are told about a class of activity for which television channels are employed: 'political propaganda purposes.' We use the invisible article to denote this label.
- If we write Recently television channels owned by these parties have been used for a political propaganda purpose. we are indicating that television channels are engaged in some kind of political propaganda, but we have not indicated definite activity.
- If we write Recently television channels owned by these parties have been used for the political propaganda purpose of retaining English as an official Indian language. then we have indicated a particular, definite propaganda activity of the television channel.
- Guess: Recently television channels owned by these parties have been used for
- Political media in Dravidian politics is well noted, with five of the seven chief ministers from these parties being directly involved in the Tamil cinema, either as script writers or actors.
- Guess: Dravidian politics has politicized many Tamil Nadu media channels, with five of the seven chief ministers from these parties being directly involved in the Tamil cinema, either as script writers or actors.
Rise of Dravidian parties
edit- The state of Tamil Nadu was electorally dominated by the Justice Party for the first 17 years since its first legislative assembly election (then part of Madras Presidency) until its defeat in 1937.
- Guess: For the first 17 years of its existence, the Justice Party dominated the politics of the Madras Presidency, the predecessor state of Tamil Nadu. It was defeated by the Indian National Congress party in 1937.
- The leaders of the rebel fragment eventually formed a new party, Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam or DMK (Progressive Dravidian Organisation in English), in 1949. (Commas demark a non-restrictive parenthetical phrase that modifies 'party' — nonrestrictive, because the parenthetical phrase furnishes descriptive information which, if omitted, does not change the sentence fundamentally.)
- DMK also perceived that the attempts to declare Hindi as the sole national language of India was an attempt impose Hindi, an Aryan-language, on the "unwilling people
"of the South".- Unbalanced commas: need two to set off a non-restrictive clause.
- Too many quotes. Try: "unwilling people of the South" (This is part of a passage copied nearly verbatim from a Frontline article, an Indian weekly news and current affairs magazine. Lightly copy-edited prose copied and pasted from references is a hallmark of start-class articles; editors of such articles sometimes are in a hurry to post first and refine later. Good Article candidates should, however, should reflect the efforts of serious refinement of the prose — they should be copyedited so as to be composed of gramatically competent sentences, if not 'brillant prose.' See the Possible copy violation sections below.)
- Consolidation opportunity: conveying the same ideas with fewer words. Here, two sentences with similarly composed subjects become one sentence
- Original: The political feud between MGR and the party's president Karunanidhi emerged as an aftermath of the latter calling himself "Mujib of Tamil Nadu".[25] The political rivalry between MGR and Karunanidhi had been in place ever since the death of Annadurai.
- Revised: The political feud between MGR and the party's president Karunanidhi arose from the latter calling himself the "Mujib of Tamil Nadu" and had been ongoing since the death of Annadurai.
- Agreement in number: How many concerns are there?
- Original: some of the members expressed concerns over the "growing popularity and strength" of MGR.
- There is only one concern: MGR's growing popularity and strength (there are two elements in the concern, which is, I gather, the source of confusion).
- Revised: some of the members expressed concern
sover the "growing popularity and strength" of MGR.- Verification matter is present here as well. The quoting of "growing popularity and strength" implies someone said it. Who? where? when?
- Original: some of the members expressed concerns over the "growing popularity and strength" of MGR.
- Icomplete sentence
- Original: MGR was suspended from the DMK by the party's general council "his anti party activities".
- Guess: MGR was suspended from the DMK by the party's general council for "his anti party activities".[26][25]
- Also, what is the source of the quote? Who said it? when?
- Commas: One has reason for being in this sentence, the other doesn't.
- Although MGR had little support from the top ranking leaders within the DMK, the strong public reaction following his suspension
,had demonstrated his popular support within the party's volunteers.
- Although MGR had little support from the top ranking leaders within the DMK, the strong public reaction following his suspension
- The first comma marks the end of a dependent clause introduced by the subordinating conjunction Although. It illustrates the fourth grammatical rule for commas.
- The use of the second comma does not fall under the rubric of any of the thirteen rules enumerated in the wikipedia article, though visually it appears to be paired with the first. I am aware of no rule requiring noun phrases (here: the strong public reaction following his suspension) to be separated from their verb phrases (here: had demonstrated) by commas, which seems to be the use that the second comma is being put.
- Best verb?
- Original: MGR displayed his new party to Indira Gandhi as a regional equivalent of the latter's Congress (I) party.
- 'Display' is what I do with flowers, art, and stamp collections. In contrast, it seems to me MGR was advancing, promoting or presenting the AIADMK party to Indira Gandhi.
- Suggest: MGR positioned (also 'advanced,' 'presented,' or 'promoted') his new party to Indira Gandhi as the
aregional equivalent of herthe latter'sCongress (I) party.- I use the definite article 'the' instead of the indefinite 'a' because a particular regional party is the matter of interest: the AIADMK.
- The pronoun 'her' freights the same idea in fewer words, syllables, and letters than 'the latter's'.
- When in the least doubt, introduce non-standard abbreviations (Congress(I)).
- I'm becoming aware that there is a system of abbreviations that are easily recognized by Indian readers, but many, probably most readers of Wikipedia reside in North America. So internationalize your prose. The first instance of 'Congress (I)' should be spelled out: 'New Congress', followed by a parenthetical '(Congress (I))' which can then be used in subsequent references to the party, as you have done. Alternativly explain the notation (The (I) denote's Indira Gandhi's wing of the 1970s Indian National Congress party.) This should be the course of action for any specialized abbreviation.
2 Verifiability
editRise of Dravidian parties
edit- The Justice Party government spearheaded the implementation of a communal reservation policy,
perhaps for the first time in the country,and acted to bring temples under state control. Don't speculate. If the idea cannot be verified, omit it. - There were
agitationsprotests across the Province against the introduction of Hindi as a compulsory subject of study in schools by a Congress-led government, which lead to the detainment of scores of Tamil scholars, academics and Justice Party leaders. This and other fights for social justice helped create the social base of what emerged as the Dravidian Movement.The review by John Harriss of Narendra Subramanian's Ethnicity and Populist Mobilization: Political Parties, Citizens and Democracy in South India does not cover the years following National Congress Party's 1937 assumption of power. What supports the history here of a Tamil bias to the arrests and detentions of people? such bias is plausible, but contestible. It's not clear to me what cite among your references specifically supports this historical narration.(Supported by cite_note-frontline3-1) Ah. Missing reference. Citing Viswanathan, S. "A history of agitational politics" covers this.
3a Scope
edit- Lead Link to Dravidian movement. Wikipedia link to Self-Respect Movement makes no mention of a "linguistic divide in India;" giving rise to a disconnected concept with the follow-on sentence: "The Dravidian movement was based on the linguistic divide in India,[3][4] where most of the Northern Indian languages are classified as Aryan and the South Indian languages as Dravidian." The article body does not explore or expand on how this 'linguistic divide' influences Dravidian political parties, so there is some issue regarding 1b(1) WP:Lead: The lead should summarize concepts developed in the body of the article; it should not contain unique ideas.
- Inconsistency with a related article: List of recognised political parties in India does not list the Desiya Murpokku Dravida Kazhagam (DMDK) party (Drum)
- Template:Dravidian parties lists:
- Dravidar Kazhagam (possibly not current - article is in past tense)
- Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (DMK) (Rising sun)
- All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (AIADMK) (Two Leaves)
- Marumalarchi Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (MDMK) (Top)
- Pattali Makkal Katchi (PMK) (Mango)
- Desiya Murpokku Dravida Kazhagam] (DMDK) (Drum)
- All India Latchiya Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (AILDMK)
- AILDMK is omitted from the article.
- Periyar
called for abandoningobjected to the celebrations by the members of the Dravidar Kazhagam. This move was opposed by other leaders within the party, including C. N. Annadurai. I think there is a missing idea here: Periyar had called for the continued rule of the British for the Tamil Nadu region. No? Hence Periyar's objection to celebrations. Without this idea, the first sentence is mysterious and it is not clear what C. N. Annadurai's objections were. - The DMK picked up the separatist ideologies... 'separatist' has a particular meaning in Tamil Nadu politics, no? But the word is introduced here without this particular meaning being explained. There are ideas in Cho S. Ramaswamy's 100 people Who shaped India (your first reference) that lead me to believe that being separate from Hindu institutions was so important to Periyar that keeping the Madras Presidency under British rule was more acceptable to him than independence in the company of the Hindu.' I don't think the generic definition of the word quite conveys this; I think, to properly develop this article on Dravidian parties, you need to convey to the (typically Western, often American) reader what 'separation' meant to Periyar on the eve of independence. I think, if you succeed in developing that idea, you would have better success elucidating the split between him and C. N. Annadurai. At present, the article relates the split, but doesn't go into detail. It seems that the article hinges on the hope that the single word 'separatist' will convey its specialized Tamil Nadu meaning to the general reader. However, the general reader will likely only have the generic meaning of that word in mind.
4 Neutral
editLead
edit- These two parties are bitter political rivals.
- Suggest: These two parties are
bitterpolitical rivals. As a dispassionate observer, Wikipedia would not use such emotionally-ladened adjectives.
- Suggest: These two parties are
Rise of Dravidian parties
edit- The arrangement worked to their mutual advantage and both the parties registered
handsomevictories in the elections. As a dispassionate observer, Wikipedia would not comment on whether the election was handsome or not.
Potential copyright violations
editRise of Dravidian parties
editDark green indicates common text between Wikipedia article and a paragraph from the source
- Source: A history of agitational politics by S. Viswanathan, Frontline Volume 21 - Issue 08, April 10 - 23, 2004
- The DMK picked up the separatist ideologies from its parent organisation, and its leaders, Annadurai and E. V. K. Sambath, upheld the principles of democratic party organisation.[21] However, faced with the reality of an independent India just setting in motion the democratic process under a new Constitution, DMK preferred to keep the separatist issue on the backburner. The DMK's main target was the Central government, which by its view was "controlled by the northerners." The party highlighted the problems arising out of the division between North and South India, where it considered that the South was neglected by delays in sanctioning development projects and allotment of funds. DMK also perceived that the attempts to declare Hindi as the sole national language of India was an attempt impose Hindi an Aryan-language, on the "unwilling people" of the South".[2] The language issue has proved to be a major campaign point for the party ever since it opted to participate in the legislative elections in 1957. The party vowed to restore Tamil to its ancient glory and appealed to the sentiments of the Tamil people through emphatic writings and speeches.
- Source: Dravidian power S. Viswanathan, Frontline Volume 21 - Issue 08, April 10 - 23, 2004
- In 1971, the Indian National Congress had split with almost all the senior leaders in the party aligned against the Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.[24] Indira Gandhi dissolved her ministry and sought a fresh mandate from the people by advancing the Lok Sabha elections. The popularity of Indira Gandhi was then at its peak, especially due to some populist measures she had taken, such as, the nationalisation of commercial banks. For DMK Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi, who was consolidating his position in the organisation following the death his predecessor and party leader Annadurai, the timing of the elections came as a boon. He was quick to extend the regional party's support to Indira Gandhi. The arrangement worked to their mutual advantage and both the parties registered handsome victories in the elections.