Talk:Driftless Area

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Name

This article should have Driftless Area and Coulee Region in the 1st sentence and can mention the others in the footnote. Google hits for the various terms:

• "Coulee Region" - 161,000
• "Driftless Region" - 9980
• "Driftless Area" - 208,000
• "Driftless Zone" - 605
• "Paleozoic Plateau" - 558

"Coulee Region" means "Greater La Crosse, Wisconsin and this is what is usually meant. Imagine typing in "Tri-State Area" and getting a geological article on the Driftless Area of Greater Dubuque, Iowa. Googling on Coulee Area for the Driftless is impossible, like trying to google on the Battle of Talladega for Battle of Talladega (a battle of the War of 1812), and having to wallow thru all those Nascar sites. Using the argument Coulee region" glacier returns 927 hits, many of them mirrors of this article, or references to the Grand Coulee in Washington. I live a hour and 10 mins from La Crosse, and am aware of its local usage.

The usual rule about google hits is not valid here. Paleozoic plateau does show up on the better sites. --Ace Telephone 06:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Current thinking

The article is already on the long side, and editing the entire document makes, at least for me, long loading/save times; if the refs are to be checked, the entire article has to be edited as a whole. My thinking is to create several daughter articles that cover certain things more fully:

1. Driftless Area of Minnesota
2. Driftless Area of Wisconsin
3. Driftless Area of Iowa
4. Driftless Area of Illinois

These would be several paragraphs in length, with only a brief discussion in the main article. There is scant information on the Illinois portion, though as I am personally familiar with the area, I can scare up enough to warrent a short article.
The name should remain Driftless Area, as I explained here earlier, and in footnote 1 of the article. Coulee Region refers to metro La Crosse, and not to the Driftless Area as a whole. Various googles on arguments such as "Coulee Region" glacier or "Coulee Region" glaciation vastly reduce the number of returns, and when the sites mirroring this article are factored out, Driftless Area stands heads above the others. I am not fond of Paleozoic Plateau but it shows up some very respectable sites, including the Parks Service and the MN Dept of Natural Resources. As a final argument for keeping this title, the IA, MN and IL state DNR sites I have pulled up for the region NEVER use Coulee Region.
Red links, specifically those for glacial lobes as well as the Wisconsin Dome will have to be attended to; these are important. For the lobes, a set of redirects into an enlarged Wisconsinian glaciation is probably the best bet, but quite frankly, anything more than superficial discussions of glaciology are beyond me.
Geology For the geologic underlayment, someone into geology needs to collaborate; see Geology of Minnesota for something analogous. An article Geology of the Driftless Area might also come into being. There is a suprising amount out there on the region, but as I said, rocks are not my forte.
Planned sections include mention of the protected areas in the Driftless, to include state state parks and the such. The category "Driftless Area" is slowly being populated with these, along with rivers and streams; subcategories will eventually likely include "Rivers and streams of the Driftless Area", and "Protected areas of the Driftless Area". Subcategory "Cities and counties in the Driftless Area]] is also possible.
--Ace Telephone 16:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The article is not very long, and the characteristics between different states don't seem very different between the states. The sections on individual states are tiny. Fill in whatever is relevant and we'll deal with a big article when one appears. (SEWilco 02:41, 14 July 2007 (UTC))

Agree, keep it as one article for now. -Ravedave 02:53, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Getting ones ducks in order As I've said, I'm populating the category "Driftless Area" (look at my contrib list if you demur). Fillmore County, Minnesota is a recent example. Every google reveals new things, including cites for the hideous Paleozoic Plateau. BTW, I discovered Glacial Lake Morrison, unacknowledged in WP (it drained east, and is associated with Lake Mendota and Lake Monona, and the Rock River.--Ace Telephone 01:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The ducks are now in order. The category, "Driftless Area" has now nicely been filled, and I will be writing, but maybe not here, but on topics like Disappering streams and odd valleys with No Exit, i.e., Blind Valleys, as well as cold springs (geology). Notice my contrib list.--Ace Telephone 04:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

nearly finished

The article is nearly finished. I would enjoy others giving contributions. I do plan on this being a Featured article.

Well, the peer review has resulted in little feedback. You know, FA is a lot of detail and process. This article is probably many months away from FA. By that I intend: keep trying but don't hold your breath.--Mineo3 01:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Be patient, it can take a while. I will try and do a review soon, when I get time. Also consider putting the page up for GA, at least some feedback is guaranteed that way. For now a map roughly outlining the region would be nice. -Ravedave 05:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I removed that illustration, in that I saw it elsewhere, under copyright, elsewhere, while doing the research. --Ace Telephone 11:29, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Minn DA paper has gone missing

I de-linked the HREF to The Driftless Area Of Minnesota because it is now 404 Not Found. It is still there in Google cache.--Mineo3 06:23, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Floods of 07

The past three nights have been hideous. High upon my hill in Waukon, 660 feet above the the River's level, we had intense rain and thunderboomers. Houston, Minnesota's levee did not fail (but Ace Telephone's wireless service did). Rushford had a very bad time. Gays Mills, in Wisconsin has had a very bad time of it. The Driftless Area is at flood stage. It's not quite the flood of 1993, but yeah, lots and lots of intense rain is involved. --Ace Telephone 04:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It's to be expected, just as in other regions with narrow valleys. Fortunately human fatalities were few. (SEWilco 06:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC))

Still raining, and we have wet in our basement. But the horrors of those down in the valleys, cliff-view homes. Lansing, Iowa is safe. We retard ourselves to do the rubbernecking over Iowa Highway 76.--Ace Telephone 11:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I have added text to the article on 2007 Midwest flooding, Minnesota section, dealing with the susceptibility of the Driftless Area to flash floods. It may be appropriate to address that in this article as well. Kablammo 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Stanley

Bryan Stanley wrote a coffee table book about making Crawford County, Wisconsin a national park.[1] However, prior to this time, Mr. Stanley murdered 3 men in a church and got committed to a mental health facility.[2] Question: Should this be added to the article as a reference, etc. I asked one of the editors and decided to ask this question.I thought this will come up sooner or later.Thank you-RFD (talk) 23:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)See also:[3] and [4]. Thank you-RFD (talk) 00:06, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Crawford County, Wisconsin is named for Fort Crawford, the end of the Military Ridge Road (it's now called Praire du Chien. No, a reference to Bryan Stanley is not welcome, unless it has heavy content.--Ace Telephone (talk) 06:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. The Stanley book has been controversial and I am relunctant to add it as a reference or citation in this article or any other article.Mr. Stanley had others do the actual field work, etc. RFD (talk) 11:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)Because of Crawford County, Wisconsin being in the Driftless Area, Mr Stanley wants it to be preserved as a national park. This was in his book. Thank you-RFD (talk) 12:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

A coffee table book is an interesting approach to campaign for a park. I haven't seen it, but large pretty pictures are a nice way to promote the concept of a park without too much textual detail. Unless it's a book similar to some coffee table history collections which include a heavy chunk of text. But not many photo-filled coffee table books get used as sources; perhaps an informative one from an academic would be a different matter. -- SEWilco (talk) 05:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

As of right now, the La Crosse, Wisconsin Public Library does not have a copy of the Stanley book, and the one of the local bookstores does not have the Stanley book for sale; you have to order the copy from Mr. Stanley himself. I do remember an incident involving the Oxford Dictionary: the editor received in the mail from a man of word definitions for the dictionary. This editor a man was curious about this unknown editor that he tracked him down to visit him-- and this man was confined to a mental health facility somewhere in the United Kingdom-- in the 19th century. This man was given credit, however, for his major contribations to the Oxford Dictionary. Interesting.Thank yoy-RFD (talk) 13:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Floods of 08

I need to edit the section that discusses the peculiar weather and flood problems the Driftless Area suffers. Gays Mills, Wisconsin got flooded again. The Army Corps is gonna close the River to navigation for two weeks just to clean up all the debris that has washed down the tributaries. I will be, but not tonight. As a personal note, earlier this spring, my basement was flooded, because the supersaturated soil surrounding it did the usual hydrostatic pressure thing; it leaked in from the upslope side, pooling in the southwestern side of the house, where the old (all masonry), 4-inch below the rest of the basement coal-bin was housed (when it finally dries out, gotta hit the entire basement with bleach, to kill the mildew. --Ace Telephone (talk) 00:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

October 08

The rivers section requires a major cleanup. I have done my best to address fragmented paragraphs, unattributed quotes, and general bad layout, but it requires more effort and more know-how on the subject than I possess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.243.28.201 (talk) 15:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Popular Culture

I reverted the article to bring back the "popular culture" section. If one believes it should be deleted, it can be tagged as such and discussed here. Awickert (talk) 00:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The Frank Lloyd Wright bit is relevant and should stay. However, the various novels are trivia and should be axed. Vsmith (talk) 00:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

--Removed tag-- Whoever put the tag there was commenting on someone who came along and left sentence fragents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.221.247.194 (talk) 05:46, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Official Driftless Region Boundary MLRA 105

To back up my edit of removing the Wisconsin Dells from this page, I am providing here a link to the official boundary of the Driftless Area. This boundary was created based on the extent of all glacial impacts (i.e. glacial lakes, glacial lobes, etc). The Wisconsin Dells are directly impacted by Glacial Lake Wisconsin and associated outwash therefore they are not included in the Driftless area. The Driftless area is considered unimpacted by the most recent glaciation so the Wisconsin Dells cannot fit into that. The Wisconsin Dells is in MLRA 89 which is where Glacial Lake WI sat. The terrain there is quite different from the Driftless Area. The soils and ecosystems are unlike the Driftless Area.http://www.wi.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/soil/mlra_page.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smchase (talk • contribs) 15:44, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm unsure about this change for several reasons:

1. The "official" map you provide is a Natural Resource Conservation Service jurisdiction map, and while correlatated with physiographic areas, it is by no means definitive and doesn't even mention the driftless area. However, it does put the Dells in the same region as the rest of the driftless area, so I'm confused as to why you referenced it as evidence that the Dells are in a different area.
2. Probably more importantly, "driftless" means "not covered by glacial drift" as opposed to "not affected by the glaciation"; for example, Glacial River Warren flowed through (and probably resulted in incision) in much of the driftless area.
3. Although the area was covered by Glacial Lake Wisconsin, it is past the terminal moraine of the ice sheet and so while it might be covered in some lake sediments, it is not covered by glacial drift (for its narrow definition). However, it is covered in glacial drift (for its broader definition), so I'm not sure what to do with this. I'm going to see if I can find a decent scientific paper that talks about this and can solve the issue so we don't have to make a judgment call.

Awickert (talk) 16:47, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Here I am looking at my own reference of the MLRA guide ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NSSC/Ag_Handbook_296/Handbook_296_low.pdf. It does mention Driftless area for MLRA 105 in its description (see page 326). However it refers to a larger central driftless region. So that got me to be curious and I looked at the MLRA 89 description (see page 275) and it says it is also in the larger central driftless region even though it is affected by glacial meltwaters. This is why we seperate it out from MLRA 105. So I went back to the drawing board and did some searching around. There are some older references that say there is a larger driftless region but I see nothing newer to claim that. I think if you are to add the Dells back in, put a sitation in to a map that shows it is included in that region. There should be one somewhere in the books you've already sited I imagine. I'd also suggest contacting the Friends of the Pleistocene and/or Wisconsin Geological History Survey to learn what the new concept of driftless area is. People like me would argue against it (and my collegues would also consider the Dells glaciated) and somebody else would probably remove it again if it is uncited because the definition of glacial drift is "materials transported and deposited by glacial ice or meltwater" which should include glacial lake Wisconsin thus making the Dells fall out of the driftless area. So this is something I think there could be argument about within the profession. But if you can attach a source like that if you add it back in, I could be happy with it until proven otherwise... which is still possible. Just a side note, yes the area of MLRA 105 (which I think of as the Driftless Area) does have some glacial impact. However, when you think of the scale of regional mapping you cannot cut those areas out as something seperate. They're usually confined to riverways so if you were to cut those out, you'd end up with all this thin lines through your map. Also, it is interesting to note that in MN you're more likely to find glacial till in the so called Driftless Area. However it is from an older glaciation. So, yes a region is never pure because of the scale of mapping and soils and rocks don't always follow boundaries like we would prefer. One must consider percentage of composition of an area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smchase (talk • contribs) 13:52, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Caption for relief map

The caption for the relief map skipped over the Whitewater and Zumbro rivers, even though they are shown in blue on the map. I added them to help reduce confusion about which stream is which. I noticed none of the streams entering the Mississippi from the Wisconsin side are named. Already, the caption seems long. Perhaps instead of adding the names of more streams shown, the caption could be shortened, and not name the streams. SlowJog (talk) 19:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

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Driftless Area Economy and Politics

Hello Wikipediites!

Pretty new to editing Wikipedia articles, so any advice is helpful. I'm thinking it might be of benefit to add a section, or subsection to the page that goes into the political and cultural climate of the Driftless Area. Take for instance the voting patterns of SW Wisconsin. Let me know what you think!

InexorableAlloy (talk) 15:22, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure how much is said about Wisconsin's exports of ginseng, but they are rather significant. Additionally, there is a figure that states that 75% of artisan cheese in WI is made in the Driftless; this figure should be cited.

References

Needs a modern map

This article could really use a readable map made with modern cartography, in the lead section. 174.196.199.1 (talk) 14:23, 29 October 2022 (UTC)