Talk:East Wittering and Bracklesham

Merge proposal

Guidelines at Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements state that ideally the civil parish should be the catch-all article, avoiding single line articles on every village and landmark within the parish.

Therefore, I suggest that villages within the parish with a one or two sentence article, ie Bracklesham to be merged and redirected to this parish article. ++ MortimerCat (talk) 14:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

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Proposal to rename article to Bracklesham

Closed discussion on article rename for clarity. Intend forward as merge proposal WP:MERGE in Merge proposal section below

With there being an article for East Wittering, the presence of an East Wittering and Bracklesham appears to be overlap. Currently:

• The East Wittering article notes a Bracklesham cottage (since burned down and re-opened as a restaurant) in its introduction.
• The East Wittering and Bracklesham article has a redirect from Bracklesham to it. The previous Bracklesham content was merged to East Wittering and Bracklesham (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bracklesham&type=revision&diff=287446942&oldid=282047037)

Proprosal: believe either that:

• This article be renamed to Bracklesham (with redirect from East Wittering and Bracklesham )
• Or the East Wittering article be merged into this one with the primary title of East Wittering and Bracklesham (with redirect from East Wittering).

I am currently in favour of the former proposal, as 'Bracklesham' and 'East Wittering' have distinctive centers, though their may be arguments for the latter proposal. Article improvement is more difficult unless this is resolved.Djm-leighpark (talk) 02:26, 5 June 2017 (UTC) looking at this again, including the closure of Southdown's Holiday Village for housing, common parish council reference documents, the common Bracklesham Barn Community facility I am more swayed to merging the East Wittering article into this one; With East Wittering being made a redirect with a Template:R from merge to preserver history. I am minded this will need to be a manual merge. Djm-leighpark (talk) 10:06, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that East Wittering be merged into East Wittering and Bracklesham. I think that the content in the East Wittering article can easily be explained in the context of East Wittering and Bracklesham, and the East Wittering and Bracklesham article is of a reasonable size that the merging of East Wittering will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Reasons for the proposal include:

• Significant WP:OVERLAP between articles, with danger of content fork WP:CFORK, and ambiguity of where to put what.
• East Wittering article uses a Bracklesham image as it's prime image which is actually out of scope.
• The Parish is East Wittering and Bracklesham and this means planning documents are common
• East Wittering and Bracklesham have separate centres but facilities such as 'Bracklesham Barn' are close enough to be shared and the built up area is contiguous. (see http://www.chichester.gov.uk/article/26359/East-Wittering-and-Bracklesham-Bay---Bracklesham-Barn)
• While East Wittering and Bracklesham are both notable village names redirects from both to a common article would not I believe be an issue and would seem natural.
• Alternatives to achieve WP:OVERLAP would be to East Wittering and Bracklesham back to Bracklesham or to merge East Wittering.
• Associate Candidate articles for Merger: Bracklesham Bay Earnley: I believe there are significantly good reason for keeping these separate, and these could be reviewed at a later time. I strongly suggest these are not merged at present.

I would be willing to attempt WP:Merging#Selective paste merger using WP:UKVILLAGES as a guide; but appreciate there are other better at this than I.Djm-leighpark (talk) 15:26, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

• No strong feelings Must have been one of my very first articles for Wikipedia!Bashereyre (talk) 17:40, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
• The problem is that a part of "East Wittering" is actually in West Wittering Parish, probably why there are the two articles. I have nothing against the merger but I suggest that the article should be called "East Wittering". With "East Wittering and Bracklesham" as a subsection and "West Wittering" as another small subsection. Or at least a carefull description to explain that"East Wittering" is in two parishes, whilst "Bracklesham" is only in one. There will also be some work needed on the main "West Wittering" article to reflect the content of the "East Wittering" article. Wilfridselsey (talk) 18:45, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Thanks for that input. I think I'm still currently minded more to go for a Parish Council level East Wittering and Bracklesham ... with redirects from East Wittering & Bracklesham and careful explanation of the villages. But I'm certainly looking for concensus and I am open to persuation that removes ambiguities.
    • Just to clarify I'm not proposing to merge East Wittering and West Wittering. The fact East Wittering has overspilled into West Wittering Parish Council area can be dealt with as a 'spill out' as per WP:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements#Managing ambiguity and uncertainty and hopefully no issues about this. Probably mostly affects the Shore Inn, The R.C. church and a car park near the beach should those be notable enough for the article.
    • With regards to the East Wittering and Bracklesham that is the name of the Parish Council (http://www.ewbpc.org.uk/). As soon as the article name is East Wittering ie the village then Bracklesham village has a fair call to be a notable village in it's own right.
    • Trying to avoid WP:OVERLAP and treading through the ambiguities and not leaving things to be merged is certainly difficult here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djm-leighpark (talk • contribs) 21:02, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose - One article is about the village, and one is about the civil parish which are two separate entities. If there must be a merge, then the civil parish must be merged into the village as per other examples around Wikipedia, not the current proposal. Jeni ^(talk) 08:01, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
• Based on the feedback, I would suggest three separate articles:

1. West Wittering - (village and civil parish)left pretty much as is. With "See East Wittering for East Wittering and Bracklesham civil parish" link.
2. East Wittering - description of village, and of "East Wittering and Bracklesham" civil parish
3. Bracklesham - new article with description of village and "See East Wittering for East Wittering and Bracklesham civil parish" link.Wilfridselsey (talk) 16:29, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

• At a minimum I'm essentially happy with that framework suggestion by Wilfridselsey, and would see the following major tasks:
  • Redevelop the existing Bracklesham article (currently a redirect to this article) to a fully fledge article
  • Move the necessary Civil Parish information from this article to East wittering, then change this article into a redirect to East Wittering. I guess the detail for this stuff goes into a governance section.
  • Ensure the East Wittering article content directly relating to Bracklesham (I'm thinking of the primary image that showed a Bracklesham thatched Restaurant which has been annoying me so much I've actually just changed to East Wittering Shops).
• Is this now a concensus point or do we need to flag it or level it open longer or make Wikiproject Sussex aware?Djm-leighpark (talk) 18:49, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
• comment I have started to form content a possible prototype Bracklesham article at User:Djm-leighpark/sandbox3 as it is likely this merger proposal will be withdrawn. It is very much a work in progress and I would aim to achieve approximately start. It would need to be copy/pasted over the existing Bracklesham redirect article to maintain history. I am likely not to have much availability soon. —Preceding undated comment added 08:30, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
  • You might want to look at British history for a bit more on Bracklesham. Also the name Bracklesham comes from the old English Broccol's Homestead. Another suggestion, if you do not include them in the body, then a "See also", Bracklesham Bay and Bracklesham Group. Wilfridselsey (talk) 09:13, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

I have determined from issues and commitments I will be withdrawing this merge proposal (especially as I now no longer support the proposal). I will also not be proceeding with a Bracklesham article at this time. Others are welcome to continue. I *may* load some relevant images to Wikipedia Commons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djm-leighpark (talk • contribs) 02:41, 11 June 2017 (UTC) Due to a small window I will resume on the Bracklesham article in my sandbox3. I have uploaded by best photographic efforts to Wikimedia Commons, feel free to improve. As far as I can tell The border between East Wittering and Bracklesham villages is subject to competing claims .. the only notable items reasonably affected are the Royal British Legion Club and the previous Cobham aerospace site but I intend to Cover on the Bracklesham article in due course. The merger proposal is in fact the reverse of that previously proposed and I may re-instate merger proposal templates. I may add content to Earnley, Bracklesham Bay, and East Wittering Articles as I progress Djm-leighpark (talk) 09:25, 16 June 2017 (UTC)