Talk:Edwin Black/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Article about Wikipedia

I would ask no one to add text in my name or colour my words as was just done and please remove them or sign them yourself. Saxstudio (talk) 23:04, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

No-one has changed or added words to your comments. --Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:10, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

While the article he wrote is obviously fascinating and will be controversial within WP, i think we will have to apply extremely exacting standards of notability to the article being listed here. i am not the best person to decide this, but i think so far the article has not gotten significant coverage to qualify to be listed. we will need to show pure NPOV in reporting on the article he wrote. this is necessary regardless of how true/untrue, fair/unfair the article he wrote "actually" is, and regardless of how many wikipedians read it and comment on it (or want to but restrain themselves from forumizing this article).Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:04, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

In the Cutting Edge News article he quotes "“weasel American Jew”" as having been a tag. There are no diff links in it, so is he confusing the "Articles with weasel words" category and "This article contains weasel words" template put in by a volunteer[1] indicating that the WP article contained weasel words, as being a tag saying the subject of the bio is a weasel; or is he talking about somehing put in by a vandal editor we can block? Also, how can being categorized as American and Jewish be "hate speech"? Even if it's incorrect, I don't see how an incorrect categorization as either or both, on a project written by volunteers for people who can't afford expensive "World Knowledge" encyclopedias, is "hate speech". -- Jeandré (talk), 2010-04-13t10:29z

Yeah, he's combining the {{weasel}} tag with "American Jew" to come out with that. Stifle (talk) 11:15, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Funny, I've argued before that WP:Weasel words should be renamed for fear of causing confusion. There was quite a debate and a majority opposed any change. Hate to say "I told you so"... Rd232 ^talk 12:36, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

If it really was about the categories, then he went to absurd lengths to try to be offended, and misquoted the article in order to write about it. -- Jeandré (talk), 2010-04-14t10:53z

Edwin Black has emailed OTRS to say he would prefer not to have any articles included about his books now. Stifle (talk) 13:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

IBM and the holocaust was a major book. That article, in some form, will stand. authors dont have control over the discussions that occur around their books. its funny, i actually was unclear about who mr. black was when i first saw his article mentioned above. it was his wikipedia article that allowed me to connect him to this book, and thus helped me with the beginnings of an informed opinion on his work. thats exactly what WP is for. if i want to know more, i will read more of his work or explore links provided, but this helped me immensely.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 18:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

You're posting 4 links to the SAME article that's posted on 4 different sites. The article itself is mostly a combination of gloating and the usual railing against Wikipedia. Ravensfire (talk) 00:45, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

There's no need to post the same article over and over again. Stifle (talk) 08:15, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Pending the outcome of the ANI discussion here I've deleted the links. Dougweller (talk) 11:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

And I just deleted them again. See comment below. Guy (Help!) 07:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Trouble following discussion

I must say i am mystified by the debate occuring here. I feel some facts are missing. i dont see where Mr. black has complained about being categorized unfairly, i dont understand the ANI filed, and dont see where Mr black has asked to not have articles written about his works. lots of removal of comments here, and im not sure if the removals are justified. im not saying i know what should be done, i just feel like i dont have enough information to add to the debate in a fully informed manner. can someone summarize the issues here, or provide links to all the relevant discussions wherever they are? (ill admit i might be just too new to following debates like this to know where to look).Mercurywoodrose (talk) 15:38, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

The links were to articles trying to out Wikipedia editors. Although they can be found via Google, I see no reason to put them here, and although we can give good faith to editors, it would be hard to distinguish between someone adding the links in order to attack or out another editor and someone adding it for other reasons. In the articles he complained about being tagged as an "American Jew" and as a "Weasel", the last clearly being a misunderstanding because the article was tagged for having weasel words. Remember also that Mr Black has emailed Wikipedia, that was what Stifle was talking about when he mentioned OTRS. Dougweller (talk) 16:10, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

ah, i think that helps a bit, cuts through the mystery. im glad that action was taken to stop such outings, regardless of intent. and thanks to Mr. black for his offer stated below, i may just take him up on that. i now can see more clearly the civil discourse that has occurred through some hazy talk page structure.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:03, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Mercuryrosewood, please get the material you seek directly from me at my email, or contact others. This information should allow you to make your own independent review as you move forward in bettering the article. Edwin Black. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.128.247 (talk) 14:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the attempt was an innocent attempt to refer readers to a syndicated article that discussed these exchanges. But as is stated, it can easily be found using other means. BTW, Stifle was a perfect gentleman in our all exchanges, and quite helpful. Edwin Black —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.128.247 (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

BTW, as I have stated elsewhere, if Dougweller or Mercurywoodrose would like a copy of the book and some sample Holocaust-era documentation, to help improve this article, I am happy to provide it. You or anyone can get it for the asking at inquiry@edwinblack.com, or by asking several admins or editors in various countries who have received it in recent days, including Stifle, but there are several others. You may also ask any other question with regard to this article or any other topic. I answer them every day. Edwin Black —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.128.247 (talk) 18:25, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

A request for citation was made above for this sentence: "Edwin Black is an American author and journalist specializing in corporate and historical investigations. His books have been published in 14 languages in 61 countries,[citation needed] and he has also written newspaper and magazine articles." You can see some but not all of them http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/27Editions.php which has not been updated in a bit. Edwin Black —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.128.247 (talk) 18:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Blaxthos--that was quite a fast citation fix by you. Only took moments. Glad I could be helpful. If you have any other questions to help improve this article, just email me inquiry@edwinblack.com. Edwin Black. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.128.247 (talk) 18:45, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Ravensfire--I hope these articles--widely quoted and reprinted are notable enough for you. If not I apologize and I am sure you will delete them. Saxstudio (talk) 23:42, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Explain why those are notable articles. Wikipedia is not a list of everything that Edwin Black has published. Where have others commented about that article? That's what we've been asking for - if you can show that it's notable, then it stays. Look at other articles - we don't list everything that someone has written. We only list the articles that others have have notable/significant. Ravensfire (talk) 00:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I have filed an ANI report on this addition. //Blaxthos ( t / c ) 00:47, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

• Citing them direct is WP:UNDUE and WP:SELFREF. If you want to cite reliable independent secondary sources for coverage of the dispute, with attendant fact-checking, then fine, but we are not here to slavishly report every single attack launched on Wikipedia by every person who fails to get their POV represented as WP:TRUTH. Guy (Help!) 07:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

From Edwin Black

If anyone has a question about an error or a statement on this page, you are free to contact me inquiry@edwinblack.com or call with your phone not displayed.Edwin Black Washington DC (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2010 (UTC)