Talk:Elfie Caroline Huntington

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thank you for creating this article on a woman photographer. It was fascinating to learn about her. I added a section on some of the permanent collections that hold her work.

Netherzone (talk) 22:41, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst (talk) 00:27, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

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• Article history

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Elfie Caroline Huntington

• ... that Elfie Caroline Huntington and Joseph Daniel Bagley took photos of Utah's darker side such as excessive drinking and fights? Source: "She also portrayed [Springville,Utah's] darker side-drunks collapsed in the streets, fights breaking out, and preachers rolling into town in boxcars to warn sinners of impending doom." https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V26N04_251.pdf
  • Reviewed: (QPQ not required; this is NatalieEmma.BYU's second nomination)

Created by NatalieEmma.BYU (talk) and Netherzone (talk). Nominated by NatalieEmma.BYU (talk) at 18:46, 24 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Elfie Caroline Huntington; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Hey, NatalieEmma.BYU (and Netherzone), neither your Source link nor the Joseph Daniel Bagley article indicate that Bagley photographed Utah's darker side, so hook will have to be rewritten somewhat. The articles are interesting, so I applaud that. If you want help rewriting the hook, let me know by pinging me (or leave a usertalk message if you don't). Meanwhile I will check the other DYK parameters regarding these two articles. Softlavender (talk) 02:21, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

How about:

• ALT1: ... that Elfie Caroline Huntington (pictured) took photos of turn-of-the-century Utah's darker side such as drunks and fights, while her husband Joseph Daniel Bagley was a portrait photographer?

Might also want to include Huntington's photo with the DYK, but if included it should be cropped vertically to remove the dead air at the top, so that the image works well with the small size of DYK.

--Softlavender (talk) 02:46, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

General eligibility:

• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - No, see my comment above and ALT1.
• Interesting: - See my comment above and ALT1.

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Softlavender (talk) 03:15, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

• NatalieEmma.BYU, I also note that in this edit you falsified the text of the Source citation in order to justify your inclusion of Bagley. I have now corrected that. Going forward, please do not ever do that again in any part of Wikipedia. Wikipedia takes very unkindly toward people faking references. Softlavender (talk) 03:21, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Softlavender I am very sorry. I did not mean to falsify any information. I added Bagley because they authored and published their photos together. My mistake. Thank you for all your help. I really appreciate it! NatalieEmma.BYU (talk) 18:44, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Softlavender I think that ALT1 would be a great hook. This is my second time doing a DYK nomination so I appreciate your patience. Here is a link to a source that says Bagley (and Huntington) took portrait photos. https://www.jstor.org/site/brigham-young-university/huntington-bagley/?searchkey=1685127771313&pagemark=eyJwYWdlIjoyLCJzdGFydHMiOnsiSlNUT1JCYXNpYyI6MjV9fQ%253D%253D "For more than 33 years, they took thousands of photographs, primarily portraits" I will upload a cropped picture of Elfie now. Where is the best place for me to put it for the DYK nomination? Here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by NatalieEmma.BYU (talk • contribs) 19:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, NatalieEmma.BYU, I have uploaded the current photo to the top of this DYK nomination, and added the word "(pictured)" to ALT1. If you want to upload a cropped version you can either just replace the file name (if it's a new file name), or add the new crop as an alternate DYK image as is done here [1] at Template:Did you know nominations/Plas Dinas. BTW it seems to me that if you are cropping out the extra space at the top you'll probably need to crop out the black borders as well .... Softlavender (talk) 23:37, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I work with NatalieEmma.BYU in the BYU Library. I added the cropped image. It's making me wish I had time to do a little photoshopping to clean up that patch on her ear! I recently found out that we can easily access the full resolution image, which NatalieEmma.BYU will be uploading as a new version to the original image later. Here is the old one, for reference:

Elfie Caroline Huntington

Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 17:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Rachel Helps (BYU), if you do anything else to the cropped image, please remove the bubble in the upper right corner. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 03:59, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

• OK, ALT1 is ready to go now, with the cropped image which is at the top of the DYK nomination. Softlavender (talk) 23:36, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Softlavender and NatalieEmma.BYU: Interesting articles. I wanted to promote the hook but it appears SounderBruce has tagged the top of the Joseph Daniel Bagley article. We probably need to address the concern before the double hook proceeds. Lightburst (talk) 15:30, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping, Lightburst; I didn't have the Bagley article on my watchlist for some reason so I missed that development. I have now addressed that issue on the article's talkpage (feel free to assess and/or chime in), and have now removed the tag. Softlavender (talk) 21:58, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@Softlavender: Thanks for taking care of it. Lightburst (talk) 00:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hook idea perhaps as ALT 2

ALT 2 ... in the early 20th century, Elfie Caroline Huntington's photographs were gender-bending and broke taboos, while her husband Joseph Daniel Bagley was a portrait photographer?

Sources: Elfie: https://kealakai.byuh.edu/technology-has-shaped-the-role-of-women-in-the-church-from-vessels-of-reproduction-to-creative-individuals-with-voice-mason-allred-said-at-fac-forum and Joseph: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V26N04_251.pdf

Any thoughts, @NatalieEmma.BYU and @Softlavender? One of the things I find fascinating about her is how courageous she was in breaking from norms during the early 20th C. while her husband's work was more conventional. Netherzone (talk) 05:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm less certain of the wording in this hook because the claim is inferred by the hook from a very brief generalization by the professor quoted in that article ("He said she was 'gender-bending and breaking taboos' as well as critiquing cultural ideals.") but he doesn't give any examples of "gender-bending" except for Huntington photographing herself cross-dressing. I don't think one single instance of gender-bending qualifies for the generalization made in this hook. It is true that she critiqued cultural ideals and social roles, but the hook makes an over-generalization not reflected in her full body of work. I suggest looking again at this good synopsis of her work and vision: [2]. --Softlavender (talk) 06:31, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. What I find most fascinating is how fearless and courageous of a woman she was.

In rereading the synopsis from Dialogue Journal, these phrases stands out to me: she "had the courage to confront defects in society and in herself" and to go "beyond surface appearances", to expose the "dark side" of life [in Utah].

In other words, she was a risk-taking artist, which set her apart from most women photographers of the time, reminding me of someone like Claude Cahun, which is why I suggested "gender-bending and broke taboos". I agree that may be a minority opinion of one professor.

I also think if "dark side" is used, it should be added in quotes, since some of her photos simply depicted reality, however abject those realities were perceived within the local culture at the time. Just my too cents... Netherzone (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

ALT0 and ALT1 don't use the phrase "dark side". They say "darker side", which doesn't need to be in quotes. Softlavender (talk) 21:47, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

You two or other editors can decide on the hook, I contributed minimally to the article (adding the Collections section). I just happened to see the article on NPP, and found her interesting. Netherzone (talk) 15:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

"Source"/"Author"

Hi NatalieEmma.BYU, please avoid anonymously using the words "source" or "author" on Wikipedia. Instead, name the source/document and/or author, and if relevant, the title of the author's work. For a sample attribution statement: "John Doe, in his book Utah Photographers, states that Huntington was redheaded, whereas the Utah historical record Utah Citizens 1900 - 1925 states that she had black hair, but Huntington's biographer Jesse James writes that she was blonde." Softlavender (talk) 00:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I can do that! Thanks! NatalieEmma.BYU (talk) 00:38, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

NatalieEmma.BYU please do this now that you are back online. Softlavender (talk) 01:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)