Talk:Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present)

Requested move 17 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 18:54, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

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Ethiopian civil conflict under Abiy Ahmed's administration → Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present) – Per WP:CONCISE. The title it should be changed to a more standard naming style, it should be WP:CONSISTENT with the pattern of similar articles' titles. There is no other article using a title with the "under the administration", all use dates to distinguish the conflicts, examples: Yemeni Civil War (2014–present), Somali Civil War (2009–present), etc. Fontaine347 (talk) 21:38, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose This article isn't about a singular war, it's about multiple different conflicts that have started during Abiy Ahmed's administration. Wowzers122 (talk) 21:47, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@Fontaine347: I don't know why an infobox was added it doesn't belong here and most of the belligerents are wrong. Wowzers122 (talk) 21:53, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom, no reason not to follow established naming convention here and disambiguate by date. Lennart97 (talk) 11:30, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

The name of this article is simply unusual. I mean we don't see the Syrian Civil War called the "Syrian civil conflict under the Assad administration" or something like this! --Fontaine347 (talk) 15:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Clearly an improvement. Rublov (talk) 16:14, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@Vpab15: the discussion is still open after the move - RMcloser does that sometimes. Can you try closing it again? Lennart97 (talk) 18:50, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

TODO - relations between local conflicts in late Oct/early Nov 2020 and Tigray War

There are sources that claim that the ENDF movement towards Tigray Region in late Oct 2020 and the first few days of Nov 2020 played the double role of (1) dropping their (limited but partially effective) policing role in various local armed conflicts, and (2) moving towards Tigray Region, triggering off the Tigray War. If someone has the time to find these sources (not me right now), then that would show some of the links between the various armed conflicts in Ethiopia of 2020. Boud (talk) 21:49, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Alliance

There was announced a unification, as today - united federal and confederalist of Ethiopia. Where to find? Bokoharamwatch (talk) 21:26, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

To your post and that of User:Boud, I added something about some rebel movements uniting. Difficult to know how to organize this, probably since this news is still quite early. Perhaps if the alliance actually becomes something significant then the other regional sections can then become subsections of a larger section called pre-alliance or something. JustBeCool (talk) 03:59, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

@Bokoharamwatch: United Front of Ethiopian Federalist and Confederalist Forces. Boud (talk) 04:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC) Thanks!13:57, 7 November 2021 (UTC)Bokoharamwatch (talk)

Shouldn't it be included in the infobox then? Charles Essie (talk) 22:26, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Civil conflict or civil war

Should we consider this a civil war since their is large swaths of territory involved and has been ragging for over a year? BigRed606 (talk) 01:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

I can see that point and some sources call it 'civil war', only "Ethiopian Civil War" could get confused for the Ethiopian Civil War. If it is 'Ethiopian Civil War (2018-present)' then the other article might have to be renamed 'Ethiopian Civil War (1974-1991).' JustBeCool (talk) 01:10, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

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Change of format

Most of the lion's share of fighting has come from the Tigray conflict. However, now the Oromia front is getting as big arguably but details about the Oromia front would not be too appropriate for the Tigray conflict article. Many wars have violence before the big breakout that would be said to be the conventional start of the war, similar to the civil violence for years preceding the coup detat that officially started the South Sudanese Civil War or the many invasions by the Axis Powers before the official start of World War II. Since the sources talk of the civil war in Ethiopia almost synonymous with the Tigray conflict, I plan to format the article with one section being events that are pre-invasion of Tigray. The years listed in the name of the article might have to changed as well. JustBeCool (talk) 01:10, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Proposal: remove infobox

A proposal resulting from the recent AfD is to delete the infobox. See MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE for guidelines. Arguments by several people at the AfD page include:

• delete
  • too many belligerents and messy;
  • misleadingly gives the impression that there's a single conflict, when in reality it's several conflicts related in a complicated way, i.e. the infobox could qualify as WP:SYNTH;
  • oversimplification stating that there are four sides;
  • oversimplification that "the conflict" started two days after Abiy became prime minister;
• keep
  • look at MOS:IBX and infoboxes for other highly complex war articles to find ways to handle this: Yemeni civil war (2014–present), Iraq War, World War II.

Please add arguments to delete or keep the infobox or make a proposal likely to achieve consensus or to handle some of these specific concerns. Boud (talk) 21:44, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

• keep. Continue improving the infobox structure if the current layout appears slightly crowded. I believe, the war articles listed here could serve as examples. Petra0922 (talk) 19:53, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Informal rename proposal

A proposal resulting from the recent AfD is to rename this page. If informal consensus can be achieved, then a more structured WP:RM process will not be needed.

Argument for changing: In comparison with Opposition to Haile Selassie, the various armed conflicts during the Abiy epoch are not all opposition to Abiy or the federal government or armed forces, but the central thread of civil conflicts in the context of one dominating strong imperial/federal-level leader and the opposition between centralising and decentralising pressures are roughly similar - historians typically define epochs in terms of leaders.

Suggested names include:

1. civil conflicts during the Abiy Ahmed administration
2. civil conflicts during the Abiy Ahmed government
3. civil conflicts during the Abiy Ahmed Ali administration
4. civil conflicts during the Abiy Ahmed Ali government

I don't see any arguments against a name of this sort, but I may have missed them.

Please give arguments for or against the whole group of "Abiy" names, or for/against any of these in particular, or propose a better title. Boud (talk) 21:55, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion #3 is formal, clear and the name is complete. At the same time, I thought the current title already represents the article.Petra0922 (talk) 19:47, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Change the name to 2nd ethiopian civil war

this isn't the first one like this page implies this was the first one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Civil_War Gorgonopsi (talk) 14:14, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 9 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 02:36, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present) → Civil conflicts during the Abiy Ahmed Ali administration – This article isn't about a single civil war, its about various different internal conflicts (more or less unrelated to each other) that occurred under the Abiy Ahmed administration, it is highly misleading to present this as a single conflict. Socialwave597 (talk) 06:02, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Africa has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:36, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Military history has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:37, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Too clunky, and the prime minister is very rarely referred to as "Abiy Ahmed Ali" (news sites overwhelmingly call him "Abiy Ahmed"). I would be more in favour of the title being changed to Internal conflict in Ethiopia (2018–present) a la Internal conflict in Myanmar. XTheBedrockX (talk) 22:54, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Agree with @XTheBedrockX's proposal.

Socialwave597 (talk) 23:42, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Not WP:CONCISE. The date is unnecessary precision since there is no other article at Ethiopian civil conflict. It is better to lead with the where to better facilitate searching, so Ethiopian internal conflict rather than Internal conflict in Ethiopia (same for Myanmar internal conflict). Nobody is suggesting there is something approaching a common name in sources? Cinderella157 (talk) 08:34, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Other choices

Please see my recent edits and how I discussed conflict article title consistency here. @Socialwave597, Vanderwaalforces, XTheBedrockX, and Cinderella157: After reviewing similar articles, I would suggest the simple Ethiopian conflict, as it is consistent and can be differentiated from the Ethiopian Civil War. If "Ethiopian conflict" is too vague, then I would suggest Ethiopian conflict (2018–present) as it is the second most consistent choice.

Given XTheBedrockX's other proposal, we have three choices:

• Choice 1: – Internal conflict in Ethiopia (2018–present)
• Choice 2: – Ethiopian conflict
• Choice 3: – Ethiopian conflict (2018–present)

Since we have these options, please provide a new choice below, such as Support Choice X:, so we can find a more clear consensus. Sorry if I kinda took over this discussion, but I've been working on conflict titling recently. Cheers!--WMrapids (talk) 05:16, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• I could support Ethiopian conflict, noting that it is already a redirect to the article. Per my comment above, Ethiopian civil conflict would be preferable to the other two options offered in this section, since the date is unnecessary precision and also, less natural (being parenthetic). Cinderella157 (talk) 05:59, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support a move to Internal conflict in Ethiopia (2018–present), per my above rationale. XTheBedrockX (talk) 06:54, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• I'd support Choice 1. Preferably Internal conflict in Ethiopia without the date. Socialwave597 (talk) 19:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 27 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 14:48, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

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Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present) → Ethiopian civil conflict – Per WP:TITLEDAB concision is preferred over unnecessary precision. Existing title is less natural because of the parentheses. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:17, 27 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 13:06, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

The previous RM, while not accepting the move initially proposed had identified alternative names and the discussion of these was ongoing. While I have proposed a particular move, I opened this to further the discussion in general. Please see the above section which was split off on closing the previous RM. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:03, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Ethiopian Civil War and Ethiopian civil war (disambiguation). —Srnec (talk) 04:37, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Still think Internal conflict in Ethiopia is more preferable. Socialwave597 (talk) 02:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

  I would point out that Ethiopia/Ethiopian is the primary word to search upon and search friendly titles would place the primary word first in order. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:20, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.