Talk:Fair Isle

Bird records

The section on bird records needs work, as at the moment it tends towards recentism. It would seem more sensible to describe some of the most notable historical occurrences first (for which plenty of sources are available), before attempting to keep up a running commentary on recent records (especially if this includes less notable species such as Green-winged Teal; the 2009 bird may have been the first for Fair Isle, but given that the island has 27 British Firsts to its name and this species has occurred hundreds of times in the UK, its inclusion seems unjustified). Also, if it continues in this vein this section could ultimately come to dwarf the rest of the article, and assume undue prominence. Dave.Dunford (talk) 16:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Gaelic name

It is very hard for me to believe that the Gaelic is actually Eilean nan Geansaidh - which I suspect means "island of the pullover". I note the Gaelic language Wikipedia calls it Fara and I have changed the entry to this. I will appeal to a more knowledgeable source. Ben MacDui 16:25, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

My understanding is that Eilean nan Geansaidh is a recent and fanciful invention. I doubt that its use has ever been widespread. Fara sounds plausible as a rendering of the Norse — there are islands called Fara and Faray in Orkney — but I don't know to what extent it can be regarded a Gaelic name. --Deskford (talk) 16:50, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd remove it (and only allow re-insertion with at least 2 refs), it's way outside the historical Gaelic speaking area and can't find anything in my library on this island having a Gaelic name (or indeed any other island in the area except for the generic term for "Shetland"). I would be really suprised to find a Gaelic form for an individual island so close to Shetland. It's not impossible but highly unlikely. Akerbeltz (talk) 19:06, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Or another option - I've seen a few places using "Eilean nan Caorach" (island of the sheep). eg this dictionary [1] or Am Baile [2] or this HIE report [3] . Note there's a few other islands called "Eilean nan Caorach" in the Hebrides. --Vclaw (talk) 00:53, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

LOL forgot to look there when we debated this previously. Well, well... the source is Mac an Tàilleir, so we have a bona fide outlier; he's a trusted source. Akerbeltz (talk) 14:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

A part of the Shetlands?

On Google Earth they are listed as within the Orkneys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.30.208 (talk) 00:01, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can see, Google Earth correctly lists it as "Fair Isle, Shetland". --Deskford (talk) 00:11, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

A part of Shetland!

The lead sentence is perhaps misleading: Fair Isle cannot be "halfway between Shetland and Orkney" since it is part of Shetland. I think this could be made clearer. --Deskford (talk) 00:17, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Proximity to Sumburgh Head and North Ronaldsay

Careful map measurement confirms Fair Isle to lie 38km from Sumburgh Head and 43km from North Ronaldsay. An editor recently swapped these figures, claiming that Fair Isle is closer to Orkney than to Mainland Shetland, but this would appear not to be the case. Can anyone find a reference for this? I would be grateful if someone could check my map measurements too, to save me potential embarrassment if I have made a mistake! --Deskford (talk) 22:50, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Not much to go on I'm afraid a maritime chart or guide would be best. According to the locals "It is approximately 25 miles away from both of these places.". I'll take a look at a map asap. Ben MacDui 19:13, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

It is definitely closer to Sumburgh and RCAHMS confirms the 38 km. Ben MacDui 19:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Measuring by hand on http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ confirms 38km to Sumburgh Head and 43km to North Ronaldsay (in that order). So closer to Shetland. Since this is OR I have not changed the article. 81.156.176.219 (talk) 10:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me of this. Fixed. Ben MacDui 17:41, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Error

...there is but a single primary school... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.44.164.5 (talk) 22:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

[4] -- frankly, I do not think you should mess with people's style or turn of phrase unless it is really terrible, or unless you are yourself adding some value. But this actually turned a grammatical sentence into a non-grammatical one.

"There are no pubs or restaurants on the island, and there is but a single primary school." -- implies a judgement that having a single primary school isn't much.

"There are no pubs or restaurants on the island, but there is a single primary school." -- implies that where there are no pubs you would also expect no schools, and that having a primary school at least is more than you would have guessed

"There are no pubs or restaurants on the island; there is a single primary school." -- strictly descriptive, and boring

"There are no pubs or restaurants on the island and a single primary school." -- the Annoying Anacoluthon introduced by this "minor edit".

--dab (𒁳) 08:06, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

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Error?

The article says Fair Isle sweaters are an important source of income for the "women of the islands" (plural). Since Fair Isle is a single island, is this supposed to mean that women in other parts of Shetland knit Fair Isle sweaters - but, if so, are they allowed to call them by that name? Or should "islands" simply read "island"? The rest of the paragraph refers to "male islanders", which is presumably a reference to Fair isle only. Incidentally, have any Fair Isle men yet got into the knitting act, as a change from crofting?!213.127.210.95 (talk) 16:27, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

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Pronunciation

Could some linguistically skilled person add IPA pronunciation after the name, beginning of article or on sideboard, where the name's origin and versions are mentioned? Pronunciation in standard British, but if local dialect differs, then that as well. Is it [fɛə(ɹ)], [fɛː(ɹ)] as in 'fair' - 'beautiful; pale'? Or maybe [vair]? And is it [aɪ̯l] or different when 'Fair Isle' spoken together? Like [fɛəraɪ̯l] or smth? BirgittaMTh (talk) 07:53, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Still didn't find any, but spoken tends to registes as [fɛəraɪ̯l]. I no one objects, will add it to the article. BirgittaMTh (talk) 17:39, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

The pronunciation in standard British English would be exactly as you would expect (I am afraid the IPA characters mean very little to me) i.e. as in 'fair' = 'beautiful or pale'. I have never been to the island but I think Orkney/Shetland pronunciation might be more like 'fer aisle'. Ben MacDui 19:03, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps @Akerbeltz: may have some insight. Ben MacDui

What are after, BE or AE? In BE [fɛəraɪ̯l] or [fɛːraɪ̯l] (I'm assuming the r usage is phonemic i.e. it covers /ɾ/ or /ɹ/) is correct though the further North (starting in the North of England) you go, the more you'll hear [fɛː] rather than [fɛə]. Does that help? Akerbeltz (talk) 22:55, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

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Harbours

"There are two main harbours (north harbour and south harbour), both formed naturally, being sheltered by the headland of Bu Ness. They are separated by a narrow isthmus of gravel. The north harbour is the main route for goods, provisions, and Royal Mail postal services arriving at and departing from the island. The ferry Good Shepherd IV plies between Fair Isle north harbour and Grutness on Shetland Mainland."

The paragraph about harbours seems confused and confusing. Looking at the map, there is South Harbour at the southern end of the island. Either side of Bu Ness on the eastern side are South Haven and North Haven. The section at present seems to be conflating South Harbour and South Haven. Don't have local knowledge to sort it out. Anyone? Dave.Dunford (talk) 08:01, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Well spotted. I am hardly a local but {{Haswell-Smith|411}} makes it clear that

• North Haven is a "small secure harbour" from which the passenger ferry sails;
• South Haven is a temporary anchorage in northerlies;
• South Harbour is a small bay and recognised anchorage and landing place (albeit dangerous).

I therefore think something like this would be more accurate:

"Either side of Bu Ness on the eastern side of the island are North Haven and South Haven. North Haven is the main harbour for goods, provisions, and Royal Mail postal services arriving at and departing from the island. The ferry Good Shepherd IV plies from here between Fair Isle and Grutness on Shetland Mainland. It is separated from the anchorage of South Haven by a narrow isthmus of gravel. South Harbour at the southern end of Fair Isle has a small pier."

I think it is pretty clear from this photo that South Haven is not a harbour in the sense of having any loading or unloading facilities. Ben MacDui 16:40, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Shetlander here (albeit one who has never yet been to Fair Isle) – Ben MacDui, your edited paragraph looks pretty good to me, except for one point: does the south harbour have a pier? I see there is something man-made on the est side, however with the "baas" (i.e. sunken rocks) so close by, visible in the satellite imagery, I can't think anyone would use whatever that is as a place to take a boat if they wanted to keep it in one piece.— 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 18:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks both. The suggested text certainly seems to reflect the map more clearly. The Ordnance Survey 1:25000 map shows a pier in South Harbour and there's reference to it at https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3081810 and pictures of (small) boats at https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3081816. Dave.Dunford (talk) 18:35, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes - the OS map was the one I was going on - but I certainly won't be taking any ocean-going yachts near that pier any time soon. It may be pretty delapidated - the OS also have a litte jetty on Belnahua although I understand it has been completely washed away. We are hardly a maritime navigating service but it might be as well to mention the danger from 'baas' and other such. Let me know if you want any assistance fixing refs etc. Ben MacDui 13:17, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Dive sites?

The article is in category Underwater diving sites in Scotland, but this is not mentioned in the text.· · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 09:19, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Expansion of 1862 emigration section

the cited paper for the 1862 emigration is quite interesting and I think more than eleven words could be spared on elaborating on the event, though I'm unsure on how much of an expansion should be done based on the single citation or if perhaps more could be found to justify a larger expansion(I doubt there could be enough to warrant a separate article). Akaibu (talk) 06:36, 2 September 2024 (UTC)