Talk:Fiona Muir-Harvey

Birth date?

Source for birth date? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:56, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

The only source given for this is dubious: "WELL I WONDER WHAT EVERYONE IS BUYING ME FOR MY BIRTHDAY TODAY???????". X (formerly Twitter). Retrieved 26 May 2024. - it is possible, not confirmed that this is a genuine account of Fiona Muir-Harvey. Furthermore, it's relying on a WP:PRIMARY source and deducing her birthdate from the tweet date and her reported age (WP:SYNTHESIS). It may or may not be true, but it's very weak as an encyclopaedic citation. Better to find a journalistic biography which states it as a fact. Cnbrb (talk) 22:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Occupation

Although Harvey has claimed on television to be a barrister, there does not appear to be any record of her on the Bar Standards' Board Barristers' Register for England & Wales, nor on the Faculty of Advocates for Scotland. This claim is certainly questionable, and it's probably safest for now only to state that she is a law graduate. Cnbrb (talk) 18:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Thoughts on Category:Scottish women lawyers? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:36, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Merge Request

The following is a closed discussion of a Merge. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page.

The result of the merge request was: consensus to merge into Baby Reindeer. Support had 8 votes and Oppose 4. There is consensus WP:BLP1E applies, this should be a redirect, but might need to reopened if notability increases. Of the 4 opposes, 1 described non-Reindeer coverage: allegations of abusive communications, which doesn't seem to escape BLP1E. I'll have a look at doing the merge, or please may User:Mdann52 or indeed anyone, effect it.

(non-admin closure) Tom B (talk) 12:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

---

I've some concerns around notability and Wikipedia:PERP/WP:BLP1E in this instance, it appears she is only notable for this one interview where she claims to be the main character, and the coverage is focused on that. I don't think the coverage here really meets Wikipedia:GNG as much of it is about the interview rather than the person herself.

Is this a case where redirecting and merging to the main article, Baby Reindeer, and covering it there is more appropriate? Mdann52 (talk) 11:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

There's more here than just Baby Reindeer. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 12:37, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure there is - indeed for the two other events mentioned given they are passing references in the media to events that have come to light following the event, I'm not sure they contribute to notability.

The Starmer event is the only other thing I can think of - but I can't see a case where sending emails to a politician in this sort of event would lead to notability - and even that article spends more than half of its content discussing the show and the interview, not her. I feel the interview might be of note, but I'm not sure she is based on what is out there. I'm trying to find how this sort of thing has been covered elsewhere, but I distinctly recall cases like this being merged with the main article. Mdann52 (talk) 13:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, possibly. I was rather inclined to wait a few weeks and see how much more came to light, but the article doesn't seem to be expanding much. Cnbrb (talk) 15:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

• Support: RS always relate her to the Netflix show, indicating that she is auxiliary to the show and lacks stand-alone notability. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 19:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: She'll be a housemate on Celebrity Big Brother next year. And a national treasure. Leave it be. 2A00:23EE:2500:3A7C:9C40:C022:2251:6BD1 (talk) 02:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

  I can't find any sources to back this claim up, can you assist? Mdann52 (talk) 07:34, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• support based on what other editors are saying it looks that she is mostly a story related to the show and a single thing. I could change my mind if there was something else about her Jorahm (talk) 17:35, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, as there's more here than just Baby Reindeer. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, due to the Starmer coverage and now suing Netflix, I think there is more than enough here to pass WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 06:53, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose she is notable and there is sufficient coverage for a separate article. Skyshiftertalk 11:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
• Support-- I'm not convinced this escapes WP:BLP1E for now. The lawsuit against Netflix and other allegations of misbehavior still mostly relate to Baby Reindeer. I think this should serve as a redirect with potential for now. Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 20:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
• Support, both WP:PERP and WP:BLP1E apply. SQB (talk) 15:07, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Support, as others have said subject notability is only related to Baby Reindeer and WP:CRYSTALBALL applies because we can't know if she become noteworthy in another aspect down the road. Krc817 (talk) 20:40, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support, She may become notable in her own right pending the outcome of her lawsuit against Netflix (and possible further lawsuits - Laura Wray reportedly intends to sue Harvey if Harvey wins against Netflix), or future media appearances/reporting. But at the moment we're in WP:ONEEVENT/WP:BLP1E territory. Her overall/enduring notability is a matter of WP:SUSTAINED. Per WP:LAGGING, we shouldn't presume that she will become notable in her own right. Currently, she's just an auxiliary to Baby Reindeer and does not inherit notability. Hemmers (talk) 10:41, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
• Support per the other comments above and WP:BLP1E. I also doubt this article will survive an AfD. Some1 (talk) 22:30, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Refs

• https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/article/2024/may/17/baby-reindeer-mp-asks-netflix-to-prove-convicted-stalker-allegation
• https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/baby-reindeer-real-life-stalker-fiona-harvey-piers-morgan-interview-1235895898/
• https://uk.news.yahoo.com/piers-morgan-says-thinks-fiona-110455643.html
• https://uk.style.yahoo.com/nightclub-hosting-baby-reindeer-real-133617235.html
• https://uk.style.yahoo.com/piers-morgan-speaks-defend-controversial-104248030.html

--Another Believer _(Talk) 13:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

My concern remains these are all discussing the show, or the interview, as opposed to her in detail. Her notability is from the show and her claim to have been the real person behind the character - I can't see how she is notable in her own right. I'll open a formal merge review linking to the above discussion and see what others think. Mdann52 (talk) 13:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Starmer

• https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/62658/1/baby-reindeer-stalker-fiona-harvey-sent-keir-starmer-over-200-emails
• https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/20/real-life-stalker-baby-reindeer-hounded-sir-keir-starmer/
• https://www.attitude.co.uk/culture/baby-reindeer-real-life-martha-keir-starmer-465980/

--Another Believer _(Talk) 17:18, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

ref

• https://www.businessinsider.com/baby-reindeer-fiona-harvey-richard-gadd-laura-wray-lawyer-obsessed-years-2024-6

--Another Believer _(Talk) 16:58, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

More sources

• https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/article/2024/jun/07/fiona-harvey-martha-baby-reindeer-in-court-the-two-words-that-might-have-saved-netflix-170m-worth-of-grief
• https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/media/netflix-damages-claim-baby-reindeer-intl-hnk/index.html
• https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/baby-reindeer-martha-netflix-fiona-harvey-lawsuit-b2560341.html
• https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-07/baby-reindeer-real-martha-fiona-harvey-sues-netflix-response/103950332
• https://time.com/6986551/baby-reindeer-martha-lawsuit-netflix-defamation-fiona-harvey/
• https://www.businessinsider.com/baby-reindeer-lawsuit-netflix-true-story-claim-fiona-harvey-2024-6
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/2024/06/07/baby-reindeer-lawsuit-fiona-harvey-netflix/
• https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6ppe84jq6do
• https://variety.com/2024/tv/global/baby-reindeer-real-martha-fiona-harvey-sues-netflix-1236019699/

--Another Believer _(Talk) 15:13, 12 June 2024 (UTC)