Talk:Flyover country

My girlfriend is from a red state, but its a blue county--is that good enough? CoolGuy 03:22, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

If when asked where you're from you give your "county", then you are most definitely from Flyover Country. 76.19.26.248 (talk) 21:37, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Attitudes

This article addresses some interesting sociopolitical issues but is disappointingly bare. Here are some thoughts:

• One thing I think you are alluding to but don't explicitly state is that, in recent years, much of the northeast as well as the west coast have become much more liberal/Democratic in their leanings whereas much of the rest of the country has become more conservative/Republican in its leanings. So the "flyover" expression has been used by some to symbolize (in particular because the term is especially popular among socialites in these areas who are often see liberal viewpoints as "fashionable"). It should be noted, however, that this was not really how the term originated.
• I'm not an expert in this but my understanding of how the term really originated is the following (someone who actually is a socialogist should write this up as this is just an uninformed understanding from things I have read here and there). California in a general sense has always had somewhat of an identity crisis. In particular at the time Hollywood was established California was still somewhat seem as a minor desert oasis characterized by tales of cowboys and gold. Hollywood was established by New Yorkers and others from urbanized areas in the middle of what was otherwise a relatively backward set of towns. From the beginning the people "outsiders" in Hollywood tried to differentiate themselves from the rednecks around them (one noteable example of this is the fact that the credits to hold movies often say "Hollywood, USA" instead of "Hollywood, California"). As Hollywood (and the World Wars) brought development to Southern California, the attitude that "We're like the people in New York, not all these other people" spread throughout the region and eventually the state. And with the advent of air travel, the rich and famous in Hollywood could travel between the two centers of movies and broadcast without ever setting foot in the rest of the country. The term "flyover country" came about as a general attitude of "I know I'm somebody because I'm better than them" that developed in California (as exemplified by the "Beverly Hillbillies." If you think about it the whole point of the show is to say that these uncultured people moved from not-California/New-York/New-England to California and could never become cultured because they were from not-California/New-York/New-England).
• The term really did originate as an insult although its precise meaning has varied over time and between users. Although some people may use it not intended it as a slur, to suggest it did not originate this way and is not currently mostly used in that sense would be wrong.
• One interesting thing this topic brings up which could either be expanded upon here or else in another article is the fact that, throughout virtually its entire history California has had an identity crisis. First it started with the fact that the state was so far removed from the other states that it was difficult to even establish an identity outside the state. At the same time, although the original anglophone settlers were largely Texans, the gold rush brought people from all over the country leading to the whole debate over whether the state was Northern or Southern (its admission as a free state did not settle the question internally). And throughout the rest of its history California has struggled with competing images of itself from the Mexican Latino culture to the Western cowboy culture started in its early days to the cultures of the many groups that have come in over the years. Indeed, it was interesting to me when I lived in California to see how often Californians regard other Californianss that live only a few miles away as "foreigners" (exemplified by the fact that there are very large parts of California where "y'all" is a common expression and yet many people in California would consider that an expression that only people in FlyOver Country use). --20:25, 11 August 2006 User:Mcorazao

Chicago

The fact that Chicago is in fact the third largest metropolis in the U.S. and is in Illinois, which is as blue as a state can get, it should not be included. Chicago was only surpassed in population by L.A. in the 80's. Until then it was always the second largest, thus the nickname 'The Second City'. It also happens to be much more of an actual "city" than L.A. Barack Obama calls Chicago home, and Hillary Clinton was born and raised there, so to include it as "flyover" when you consider that it's usually a derogatory "red state" reference is ludicrous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goveart (talk • contribs) 20:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The term isn't really about "red states" vs "blue states"; that's just a connotation it took on during the 2004 and to a lesser extent 2008 elections. It's been a long-standing term among east- and west-coast "elites" who see the rural areas of the US as being unworthy of their time. 75.76.213.106 (talk) 21:54, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Possible sources

The article is currently unsourced and needs to cite reliable sources. A search of Google Books turned up what look like a few reliable, possibly relevant sources. Editors wishing to improve the article might look for these or similar books at your local library. (I for one can't really read the small Google Books print.)

• David J. Wishart (2004). Encyclopedia of the Great Plains. U of Nebraska Press. p. 386. ISBN 978-0-8032-4787-1. Retrieved 1 March 2012.
• Richard Sisson; Christian K. Zacher; Andrew Robert Lee Cayton (2007). The American Midwest: an interpretive encyclopedia. Indiana University Press. p. 65. ISBN 978-0-253-34886-9. Retrieved 1 March 2012.
• Stanley R. Johnson; Aziz Bouzaher (1 October 1995). Conservation of Great Plains ecosystems: current science, future options. Springer. p. 3. ISBN 978-0-7923-3747-8. Retrieved 1 March 2012.

Cnilep (talk) 07:35, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

An additional source is here:

Bullard, Gabe. "The Surprising Origin of the Term 'Flyover Country'". National Geographic. National Geographic. Retrieved 4/20/2016. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)

Politicians

The following sentence sounds rather editorial: "Politicians are often accused of not understanding the needs of those living in Flyover States as they fly back and forth between the more populated West coast and East coast ignoring those in the middle of the country."

One could find this complaint attested in the remarks of various officials, certainly. But, the U.S. federal government is just as often accused of siphoning tax revenue from the wealthy coastal cities to subsidize the poorer rural interior, and any observer of a U.S. presidential election would probably have to admit that much of the imagery and issues used in the campaign caters to the interests of rural and interior America. This conjecture should either be stricken or expanded to include the generally opposing viewpoint of the coastal states.

Xmatt (talk) 19:58, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Self-referential, not pejorative

I found no uses of "flyover country" actually used pejoratively by an elitist, and numerous self-references used as a badge of honor, a way of calling oneself a salt-of-the-earth type. It seems the term "flyover country" is pejorative towards coastal elitists and not mainland USA, as if to say, they are stuck up name-callers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug141 (talk • contribs) 00:33, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? Just watch an episode of Bill Maher. I don't think he is using it polietly. --2602:306:37F1:A40:D16E:1EAC:34F2:703D (talk) 17:54, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

As the above cite shows, the term is NOT "often used pejoratively," except in an ironic sense. It is a "stereotype about a stereotype." The most common use is in right-wing political claims putting straw-man words into the mouths of liberals. The second most common use is apologetic or ironic, usually in quotes. The claim about Maher could be true, but it is uncited. Burressd (talk) 18:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Anecdotally speaking, the term is very often used dismissively or pejoratively and not exclusively in irony. Also anecdotally, Burressd's sentiments on the term reflect sentiments on the term more likely to be held by coastal Americans. I hypothesize that many coastal Americans don't notice pejorative uses of "Flyover Country" because it doesn't effect their status quo in any way, much in the same way systemic racism can be largely unnoticed by demographics unaffected by it. In a similar vein I would argue for more research into the disparities of national cultural influence between coastal Americans and states considered to be "flyover." Coastal states arguably have more power in influencing cultural narratives and discourse over non coastal states. Pejorative use of the word thus has more power. Zahonzik (talk) 12:06, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

which states?

Apart from Kansas (relegated to a caption), the only states mentioned in the article as being flown over are Virginia, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania, which are not what people mean by flyover country. That's an interesting but entirely misleading statistic. DAVilla (talk) 23:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)