Talk:Fred Russell/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: GhostRiver (talk · contribs) 18:00, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I plan on taking a look at this! — GhostRiver 18:00, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Infobox and lede

• Although not falling entirely under WP:BLPNAME criteria, I know that it is general policy not to name children in an infobox unless they are independently notable; that parameter is usually used for the number of children ***DONE-removed them, even though it's only first names***
• "who was sports editor" → "who served as the sports editor"***DONE***
• Space between The Tennessean and comma ***DONE***

 Working

Influence and legacy

Baseball

• WL spring training ***DONE***
• "Russell interviewed Ty Cobb and many of baseball's other great stars" **Revise to more encyclopedic tone, add 2nd source for this***
• Last sentence needs a citation *** DONE, citation added***

Awards and honors

• The first two paragraphs are close paraphrasing or directly lifted from this source and need to be fixed ***DONE***
• Additionally, most of this section reads as WP:PROSELINE, where it gives a similar format of "In X year, Russell received Y honor/award."*** I completely agree. I hated writing it, but I thought it should be in the article somehow. I believe I have improved it now. See below***
• "Russell received numerous honors from sports organizations throughout his life." ***DONE***
• The last paragraph reads as very disorganized, with several sentences that likely belong in other sections (the award named for him is in the next section, the Banner info should be during his life, ***removed*** and the thing about his proteges reads as trivial content ***GONE I thinned out the paragraph, off-loaded some info to next section, jettisoned the trivial stuff, (proteges, etc.)***

Named for Russell

• This section would be better expanded upon,***DONE*** with more context surrounding when these name changes occurred; something like the "Honors" section in Barbaro (horse)*** I checked "Barbaro'***
• Additionally, I'm not fond of the title; it should either be within the "Awards and honors" section or alternately titled something like "Legacy"***DONE--new "Legacy" section similar to Barbaro***
• The first bullet point requires a citation ***DONE***
• Vanderbilt's baseball stadium is known as Hawkins Field and should be linked accordingly ***DONE-- added referenced content and enhanced it***

General comments

• All three pictures are fair use and relevant to the article
• No stability concerns in the revision history
• Copyvio score is a little high; mostly proper nouns except for one section noted above

While I had planned on giving this article a full review, I have some pervasive worries about GACR #3, which says that the article addresses the main aspects of the topic, and stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail. The bulk of this article seems to detail trivial events in Russell's life, or his tangential relationships to others, such as a singular interview with Babe Ruth,(***See comments below***) the anecdote about the "heavy-set woman."***REMOVED this anecdote*** I am also worried about the various sentences that are unsourced,*** Have added sources, what else needs a source? *** and the flattering tone used in these uncited sentences, like "The gag became legend"(***GONE***), or "hilarious antics".(GONE*** I completely agree, these are removed*** His death isn't even cited!***DONE***

Unfortunately, I am going to have to fail this article for now. Please address the citation issues,***DONE*** and read over WP:SUMMARY for some suggestions on the prose.***DONE*** — GhostRiver 18:25, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@GhostRiver: Thanks for taking the time to critique Fred Russell. I cringe at some of my more obvious blunders ("the gag became a legend"— that was a quote, but erroneously not referenced or attributed. Anyway, it is deleted now.) Your criticisms were helpful and I have addressed each of them by inserting *** and italics into the review. As for the Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig/Ty Cobb mention, I made a point of separating them in the lead from the list of Russell's close friends, just saying that "he interviewed" these icons. The fact is well-sourced (Sports Illustrated) and I think it is noteworthy that he even met all three; it underscores his longevity. I created a new "Legacy" section as you suggested and think it reads much better; I thinned out the proseline "Awards and honors". The "heavy-set lady" anecdote is gone. I moved text from body of article and placed it in more appropriate sections. I removed the Art Demmas reference— too tangential. Is the Wilma Rudolph anecdote wandering off the subject too much? I believe there has been improvement based on your suggestions. You said the article is failed "for now". Does that mean that you will not respond to these efforts to improve it? Thanks, Eagledj (talk) 23:38, 24 September 2021 (UTC)