Talk:Friedrich Welwitsch

Copyright violation

The first of the link given has this to say about Welwitsch:

Dr. Friedrich Welwitsch (1806-1872)

Friedrich Welwitsch was born in Austria where he worked for some time as a theatre critic. Later he fled to Portugal where he started to work as a plant collector. Several years later he was sent to Angola by the Portuguese government where he made over 5000 collections during 12 years in the country. Some were completely new to science at that time and contained large amount of useful information.

When he returned from Angola Welwitsch decided to settle in London to stay close to the Natural History Museum and the Royal Botanical Gardens. He worked there until his death in 1872.

After his death the Portuguese Government (who funded his collections) took the executors of his estate to court to try to retrieve the collections. After a long court battle which lasted 3 years a compromise was reached - the Portuguese Government got the first set of duplicates and the Natural History Museum received the second set.

Dr. Friedrich Welwitsch is buried in Kensal Green Cemetery in London. His his tombstone is decorated with an engraving of Welwitschia.

As clear a copyright violation as may be. Brya 15:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicity of F. Welwitsch

I recommend the users involved in the edit war to verify and support their statements with reliable biographical sources, for example:

• Stres, Špela. "Opazovalka stoletij: srečanje z velbičevko (Welvitschia(!) mirabilis)" [The century's spectator: meeting Welvitschia mirabilis]. Proteus, the journal of the Natural Sciences Society of Slovenia. Year 61, No. 9/10 (pp. 392-395). ISSN 0033-1805. COBISS 11591469
• Strlič, Matija. "Dr. Friderik Velbič, 1806–1872". Proteus, the journal of the Natural Sciences Society of Slovenia. Year 61, No. 9/10 (pp. 396-404). ISSN 0033-1805.COBISS 11592237

Cite the sources. Best regards, --Eleassar ^{my talk} 07:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: Edit war: Sources suggested:

• Stres, Špela. The abstract of the text describes Welwitsch as “the Austro-Slovene botanist Friederich Welwitsch (F. Velbič)”
• Strlič, Matija : The title of the publication in "Proteus“ is "Dr. Friderik Velbič, 1806-1872“.

The Slovenicized name, which he never used, demonstrates the obviously widely spread general assumption in Slovenia that Welwitsch was a Slovene.

Yet, they are Slovene sources, and Slovene sources just as Austro-German sources cannot be considered reliable evidence. Nationalism, even in science, poses a problem. Look at Nicolaus Copernicus, who was born, lived and died in what is now an undisputed part of Poland. But Copernicus has always been declared a German scientist in all German lit., and he is considered a Pole by all Poles (and the neutrality of the WP article about him is disputed).

Is there a contemporary or a really reliable neutral source for Welwitsch? Can there be? In Carinthia there have always been mixed marriages. How many parts of Welwitsch were Slovene, how many German? The Nazis had invented the Full Jew, Half-Jew, Quarter-Jew...

The text says: "The family name, which in to-day's Slovene spelling would be Velbič, points at Slovenian ethnicity." Can't we leave it at that? This is what I also wrote Hervard123, but his reaction was another revert.--Marschner (talk) 10:07, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You cannot say the source is reliable or biased just because it is written in Slovene or by a Slovene. Someone would have to go and see what do the mentioned authors actually say. Most probably these are secondary sources referring to the primary ones. I hope these two articles will be available online soon as the page of the journal says the site of this issue is currently being upgraded. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 15:11, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You are right. I ought to have said "cannot a u t o m a t i c a l l y be considered reliable evidence". No offence meant! Mind you, I didn't say they a r e unreliable or biased. But is that small difference whether W. himself w a s a Slovene or that his surname points at Sl. ethnicity actually worth the effort and energy? --Marschner (talk) 19:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

If his ethnicity influenced his biography, it is. With much delight I have actually discovered the cited issue of Proteus in my personal library, so I'm going to expand the article with the information it offers. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 10:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations on your find! However, the "issue" will thus obviously remain unsolved forever. By the way "-ch" at the end of a name ("Welwich") was a frequent way of reproducing Slovene and Croat [č] (cf. Franz von Miklosich), before Germanized "-tsch" became more or less standard in Austria. People were obviously not all too particular about the spelling of proper names.--Marschner (talk) 19:19, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Why care? Rainbowwrasse (talk) 11:09, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

R. cassytha/R. baccifera?

Sth. else: Austria-Lexikon writes that F.W. found "Rhipsalis cassytha". WP Rhipsalis baccifera says that the genuine Cassytha aren't even cacti, but were long taken to be members of the family. On the other hand, "Rhipsalis cassytha" is also an (out-of-date?) synonym for Rhipsalis baccifera, which, just as Cassytha, can be found in Angola. So??? Actually, it doesn't really bother me in the least. --Marschner (talk) 19:19, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Welwitsch described the plant he found as R. aethiopica, which is one of numerous outdated synonyms of Rhipsalis baccifera.[1] Such an outdated synonym is also R. cassytha.[2] --Eleassar ^{my talk} 08:15, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, these botanists! There is another page that you may be interested in where Welwitsch's R. aethiopica is called R. Cassutha; "Treated as a synonym of Rhipsalis baccifera ssp. baccifera by B&T in Bradleya 13 Desc. from B&R 1920 but ..." .
Also absolutely fascinating - although I've no idea what this really implies - is W.'s 18-fold name in Tropicos.org:Scientific Name-Author-Reference-Date
Click on "Author", and under "Name" put in "Welwitsch". You'll get:

Polemoniaceae: Welwitschia/ Asteraceae: Welwitschiella nereifolia/ Menispermaceae: Welwitschiina /Welwitschiaceae: Welwitschiaceae / Gnetaceae: Welwitschia mirabilis subsp. namibiana/Welwitschia filifolia /Welwitschia bainesii/ Welwitschia densifolia / Welwitschia wilcoxii/ Welwitschia diffusa/ Welwitschia filifolia var. diffusa /Welwitschia filifolia var. filifolia/ Welwitschia floccosa --Marschner (talk) 14:01, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

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