Talk:Fumblerooski

In 1930

The Bobby Dodd page that I just referred to this page has a documented use of this play at the college level in the 1930 Florida-Tennessee game, and states that Dodd had previously run the play in high school. The play was not called the "fumblerooski" -- most likely, the term did not exist at the time -- but from the write-up, it's clear that this is the same play, so I added the link. The cited 1933 reference in this article appears to be in error: the Dodd article suggests that it was known and used at the high school level at least as early as the 1920s. Nusumareta (talk) 17:01, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Also, the current "The first documented use of the fumblerooski was in 1933 at Greenville High School during the 1933 Texas High School Championship" contradicts the opening statement that says John Heisman invented it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Statalyzer (talk • contribs) 12:58, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

In 1935

The Fumblerooski play was invented long before Tom Osborne was coaching at Nebraska. The play was first used by the Greenville High School Lions in the Texas Football Championship in 1935. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkeithbrown (talk • contribs) 15:33, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Nebraska Football

It would not be appropriate, or necessary, to merge the fumblerooski article with Nebraska Football. While Nebraska pioneered the play, other teams used it from time to time while it was legal. I know of two times it was run against the University of Illinois. One was September 8, 1990, by the University of Arizona. The other was December 30, 1992, in the Holiday Bowl, by the University of Hawaii. On the latter occasion, the play was called back for Hawaii's failure to inform the referee in advance. Otherwise, it's quite possible that Hawaii's attempted fumblerooski would have been the last use of the play, contrary to what is in the current Wikipedia article.

Although the fumblerooski play was invented at Nebraska by Coach Osborne, other teams adopted and used it. It should therefore have a separate entry.

It wasn't invented by Tom Osborne. Greenville ran this play in 1935 Texas State Championship game to win it. And the Heisman NY Times obituary states that John Heisman invented it. Tom Osborne wasn't even born yet! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.251.77.203 (talk) 18:58, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

And it should probably have another name. Even if Nebraska's name popularized it, it existed before that and was known as the "fake fumble" play for years. Daniel Case 19:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This particular trick play is notable enough to have its own article. Aplomado - UTC 16:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, don't merge this, and don't change its name just because Nebraska named it. It's been a couple months, so I'm removing the merge tag.--Mike Selinker 14:51, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

It says it was banned in the NFL at the top, yet there is a description at the bottom talking about San Diego using it just recently (I even watched the game). Inconsistencies, or am I missing something?

By the way, isn't this also a similar play to the "center-eligible" play run during the football game in the movie (not TV series) MASH? Although the ball doesn't end up on the ground in the MASH version, the concept is the same: the center pulls back the snap and hides the ball under his jersey as opposed to leaving it on the ground, then strolls down the field when all the defenders follow the quarterback. I'm assuming that in this variation, pulling back the snap must be considered a kind of forward pass, so the center would have to be declared an eligible receiver for it to be legal.Nusumareta (talk) 17:11, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I altered the phrase regarding the San Diego game to "fumblerooski variant." It was a play similar to the fumbelrooski (now banned) that did not involve placing the ball on the ground. --Macdaddy312 06:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe the official name of the play that the Chargers ran was the "Bumarooski", named after former head coach Bum Phillips. [1] I'll make the change. If you disagree, change it back. Patken4 15:51, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The last play in Little Giants was indeed a fumblerooski (called "Annexation of Puerto Rico" in the film), and should be cited as such. The fact that there were several intentional fumbles on the same play does not take away from the fact that it was a fumblerooski.

Multiple sources, including the ESPN article cited about the high school ban note that the fumblerooski is when the quarterback, not the center, deliberately places the football on the ground. Also see this article by Gregg Easterbrook explaining that the 2006 play involving the Chargers was not an actual fumblerooski: [2]

Used by Bo Schembechler in Michigan - Ohio State

I'm pretty sure Bo Schembechler used this play at least once in a Michigan-Ohio State game. Guanxi 21:10, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

"modern version"?

A new variation of the fumblerooski was run by the University of Arkansas Razorbacks on October 7, 2006: the then-unranked Razorbacks used the trick play in their upset of the #2 ranked Auburn Tigers.[5] The smallest Razorback player—5’7” Reggie Fish—hid behind the line, out of sight of the Auburn defense, and the center handed him the ball by a direct snap as the QB ran a fake play. This was the first time a play like this had appeared in major college football.

If the key to the play is the intentional fumble by the QB so that an otherwise ineligible player can pick up the ball (I think that's the point of the "fumble", isn't it? This should be explained in the lead paragraph[s]) - if that's the main element of the play, how does a direct snap to a small player (assummedly an eligible one) which involves no intentional fumble a "modern version" of this play?

I see that the reference given mentions a modern version of the fumblerooski, but it doesn't explain the play. The explaination given here does not explain how the play in that game is related to the fumblerooski in any way. TheHYPO (talk) 01:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, Clemson used this against Tennessee for the 2003 season Peach Bowl. Clemson RB Kyle Browning scored the touchdown. Technically, the play Arkansas ran wasn't the first time. - Anonymous

• The descriptions of the Reggie Fish play, the play used by Texas against Nebraska in 2006, etc., need to be deleted. Those weren't fumblerooski's or even variants of the fumblerooski at all. Trick plays or plays that used a great deal of deception? Yes, almost certainly so. But not fumblerooski's. The fumblerooski is a unique play. Harry Yelreh (talk) 07:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

New additions

As TheHYPO mentioned almost 10 years ago, the main distinguishing feature of a fumblerooski is that the football is secretly placed on the ground, hence the "fumble" part of the name. Clever offensive minds continue to come up new variations of the hidden ball trick, unexpected direct snaps, and many other trick plays designed to deceive the defense. However, if the ball is not intentionally placed on the turf, then it's not a fumblerooski, and the play should not be included in this article. Zeng8r (talk) 12:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Not Allowed?

The article states (without a reference) that the play is "not allowed" in the NFL. But the play was used in the 2009 Pro Bowl by the AFC team. Of course, I don't know if there's special rules that can be bent in the All-star game, but can someone verify that it isn't allowed? Wikipedian64 (talk) 18:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I am adding a source to confirm it being a against the rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JEMZ1995 (talk • contribs) 04:25, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Famously used in 1984?

This article seems to contradict itself. In the lede, it is stated the the Fumblerooski was famously used in 1984 between Nebraska and Miami, but under "See Also" the Holy Roller is included--a play the happened several years before 1984. The lede should reflect that the Holy Roller is the earliest version to be famous.67.169.25.132 (talk) 04:12, 14 January 2012 (UTC)