Talk:Glee season 4

Cast

Please do not add any information concerning the main/recurring cast's status, unless you can obtain a verifiable source that states what your edit claims. LiamNolan24 (talk) 22:13, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Colour

Is it possible for the colour of the infobox and table to be toned down? I don't know about anyone else, but it's a little too bright for my eyes and kinda distracting. - JuneGloom Talk 21:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, it's this color in order to correspond with FOX's official theme for the season. LiamNolan24 (talk) 22:41, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Except the colour on the FOX website is no where near as bright as the colour in the article. Surely there is another green available that is a shade or two darker. - JuneGloom Talk 00:32, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

In fact there is; #A4C639 or #8DB600 are a lot kinder to the eyes and actually match the website. - JuneGloom Talk 00:50, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I am sorry, what I meant to say was, this color is at this shade to conform with past season colors. We simply can not change all the seasons' colors for everyone's personal taste, for obvious reasons. LiamNolan24 (talk) 01:05, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

So we are governed by FOX now are we? I knew I should have subscribed to the Sign Post. But I am subscribed to the weather forecast. With it being the warmest day of the UK year, if I did not have my sunglasses at the ready, I may not have been able to cope. Surely a similar tone that is not so brash would be more fitting - the colour would be similar. But I fail to see what the benefit of exact colour schemes are to the general reader – surely that would only please a gleek. That does not mean they all need changing either, I'm talking this article alone.Rain the 1 01:35, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm not sure where you get the idea that past season colors have been so bright: they haven't. Furthermore, the initial color is almost never the eventual color, which is selected based on the full-season DVD cover. (The second season changed colors at least twice: once in mid-season to green to reflect the color used on the first-half DVD when it was released in January 2011, and then to orange the following September, when the DVD for the complete season came out.)

The green color I'm seeing on the Fox site has been standard for ages, and can't be said to reflect the fourth season at all. From what I can determine, Liam, you selected the color we see now immediately after Jasonbres set up the page on July 19—he'd simply used the third season color in setting up the infobox. I frankly agree with June: the color is unnecessarily bright, and could use toning down. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Frankly, this is where Wikipedia fails for me, the fact that something this trivial can erupt such antagonism is dismaying. Display whatever color that pleases you, I have absolutely no objection. For clarification, BlueMoonset, I never selected the display color, it was in place when I found the article. Maybe you should inquire before assumption intoxicates you. LiamNolan24 (talk) 01:58, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

You seemed to display quite the objection earlier. To be fair to BlueMoonset, you did leave little in the way of assumption. In fact you endorsed a colour scheme that matched Fox's fancy.Rain the 1 02:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I would never state that someone had selected the color unless the edit history indicated such had happened, because I wouldn't have known. However, the article history is clear about sequence: this diff shows Liam changing the color as I described. He may not remember doing so, but his was the first instance of that color I can find. The colors were variously blue, yellow, and red prior to the initial version of the article from April and May being changed to a redirect; Jason set up the new version of the article on July 19 using blue, and the color change to the current bright green by LiamNolan24 was made seven minutes after that. No antagonism here, just simple facts—not assumptions—as best I'm able to determine them.

June, please feel free to pick a color that works for you, and has good contrast with the black lettering. The only thing I would recommend is that it isn't the same color as any of the three used in past seasons, and that seasons three and four have especially good contrast. List of Glee episodes will show them all together, which should help, especially in the first table. (Some greens might be dicey, since blue/green discernment can be difficult for some people, which I've learned from my experience playing Uno.) Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

In defending my argument, I found the color on the List of Glee episodes article and brought it over to this one. It had been in place for quite some time, and I was trying to keep a certain amount continuity. Here on Wikipedia, the judge and the jury seem to be the other editors, and before you know it you're tried and convicted for a crime you thought was a service. Please, I employ every editor that reads this to not quarrel over such petty issues. Brush yourself off, and move on with life. LiamNolan24 (talk) 03:05, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

You seem to think that we've tried and convicted you for doing something wrong. To the contrary: you did change the color back then, and for an absolutely legitimate reason: now that you've explained the source you used, it seems ideal that at the time you would have done so to harmonize with another Glee article page. What we've been trying to figure out all along is why that color is being used, given that it's so bright: we tend to be deferential when there's a good reason that something was established, but we'll want to know what that reason was. Looking at List of Glee episodes, I've identified the history of color selection for that article:

• May 18, 04:32: user 74.193.196.232 adds the season 4 line to the overview, picking a purple color for unknown reasons. (No edit summary.)
• May 18, 21:14: user 190.174.63.86 changes the color to a dullish green in the IP's only Wikipedia edit. (No edit summary.)
• June 2, 02:08: user 173.64.99.252 changes the color to the current bright green. (No edit summary.)

As it happens, user 173.64.99.252 has been blocked from editing on Wikipedia several times, including for making inappropriate color changes to the Glee (TV series) article over and over again, despite being asked to stop. I hadn't realized before this moment that this is where the color came from; now that I do know, I have no qualms at all about changing it, perhaps radically: it's clear that there's no official basis for the bright green, and there's no need to use these three random users for any sort of guidance or precedent.

To summarize: you did the right thing as best you knew. Further investigation, however, shows that the color came from an unreliable source, and has no official Fox or other origin. So let's come up with our own color, keeping in mind legibility and differentiation from past seasons. It's not all that often that we have that flexibility; further, the color will change in about ten or eleven months when the cover for the season four DVD is released. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Apologies, I didn't mean to cause a disagreement. I thought it would be better to discuss the colour than just going ahead and changing it, in case it had been decided upon by the members of WP:GLEE. I don't mind the article staying green, if it works with the other articles. If not, how about purple or #BD33A4 (a darkish pink). - JuneGloom Talk 15:23, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Discussion's generally better than just making changes, which more often than not results in edits and reversions before the matter ends up on the talk page. As it happens, the color had not been discussed by WP:GLEE, so there's no agreement there. I think I'd prefer more contrast from the blue than greens generally give. Of the colors you suggest, purple tends to be too dark for black lettering; in fact, I was thinking that the darkish pink was too close to purple and could stand a bit of lightening toward a modified magenta, something like #DD33A4. (I tried increasing the last two digits, but it got too bright again; decreasing the middle two made it a bit more saturated a magenta than I thought we wanted, with increasing making it a duller color.) Pink's a tricky set of colors, but I think this one would work. (I had to test it on the season 4 infobox to see how it looked with letter; the List of Glee episodes Overview is too small to give good info beyond contrast with other colors.) Thoughts? Opinions? BlueMoonset (talk) 19:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I think #DD33A4 is okay. It's not too bright and you can still read the black lettering. - JuneGloom Talk 20:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Oddly, when I actually put it up on the page, including the section below, it looked too dark to my eye: in particular, not contrasty enough with black text on it. So I bumped it up to #FD33A4, which didn't look too bright here. If it is for you, please let me know, or dial it back down. I did like it better than DD or ED, but I'm just one person, and am happy to go with other eyes if they're unhappy. (I don't want to go from too bright to too bright, if you see what I mean.) Thanks for your feedback! BlueMoonset (talk) 02:50, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I feel like such an ass for saying this, but #FD33A4 does appear to be a little too bright to me. What about #F64A8A or #D64A8A? - JuneGloom Talk 01:41, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

No, please, that's fine. It looked brighter than I expected on my desktop, even if fine on my laptop. With your new suggestion, I decided to compromise on #E6308A: halfway between your two suggestions on the first component, but dialed down a bit on the second from 4A to 30, since the latter looked a little less muddy to my eye. Hope this one works, but please let me know if not—"less muddy" may in fact strike you as "too bright"! BlueMoonset (talk) 03:30, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

No, I think this colour is fine. It's not too bright and not too dark. Thank you for all your help. :) - JuneGloom Talk 22:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Jayma

Jayma Mays was not listed as a regular in the premiere episode. 24.128.65.91 (talk) 14:50, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Episode listing inclusions

Last season, a standard for including forthcoming episodes in the table was codified here. I think it makes sense to continue the same standard this season. This would mean not listing dates absent known episode names or summaries tied by reliable sources to those dates.

Currently "Dynamic Duets", the title of episode 7 in various reliable sources, has been added twice as being broadcast new on Thanksgiving Day, a day that The Futon Critic says a Glee episode will be broadcast. These Futon entries have been known to change: sometimes they've turned into reruns, or some other show entirely broadcast. Until we have something that definitively puts "Dynamic Duets" on November 22—Thanksgiving being a pretty dead day for television (until "Makeover", the lowest audience for any episode was "Hairography", which ran Thanksgiving eve; there hasn't been a new Glee episode Thanksgiving week since then)—I don't think we should include the information together like this: I believe it violates both WP:SYNTH and WP:CRYSTAL. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:49, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Season Color

Hello, can we change the season color, all the other season have the color of their DVD covers, and the season 4 cover is yellow, can we change it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZairaTangled (talk • contribs) 19:57, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Yellow might be awkward, because Season 1 is also yellow. Do you have a link to the Season 4 cover image? Amazon doesn't have it yet here in the U.S. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:10, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I think that too, but the anothers season have the same color of their covers, maybe a different yellow. Here is the cover https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1157505_539222072798348_833676931_n.jpg it is confirmed, in the UK it's the same color, only changes the design.

ZairaTangled, I think we have differing ideas of "confirmed". You've given me a link to an unsourced jpg file, with no proof of provenance. (It's far too easy for people to make their own cover mockups; I've seen others in different colors and designs over the past few months.) Which reliable source has confirmed that the akamaihd.net image is the final cover? The design is definitely different from the UK, which is published at a reliable source here. For season 3, UK and US had different colors and designs for their DVDs; for season 2, the design was similar, but the colors were different. I don't think we can count on the colors being the same if they haven't been since season 1.

Wikipedia isn't about getting images and information first, it's about getting them verified and correct from reliable sources. To my mind it's a bad sign that Amazon US doesn't have this design you're showing me. We can wait until they, or some other reliable source, have the DVD cover; there's no huge rush. (The DVD has been delayed a couple of weeks already; it could be they're retooling the cover design. If what you've shown me was the design, I'd imagine they're making sure Finn is on the cover after all.) BlueMoonset (talk) 05:22, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Choosing a color methodology

The fourth season DVD cover has been "officially" leaked, and it's close to both seasons one and two, a yellow-orange about halfway between the first season's yellow with a bit of orange in it, and the second's orange shades.

Since it's so close to two of the three previous seasons, it becomes hard to distinguish between them simply based on color.

This leaves a couple of possibilities. One is that we drop the DVD cover method and choose our own easily distinguishable colors. Another is that we switch to a new method: one DVD-related possibility is using the color of the "glee" logo on each cover: red, lightish blue, yellow, and teal. Would the season two blue and the season four teal be distinguishable enough?

Any other thoughts? Comments on the above? I'd like to come to a consensus here before changes start being made. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:51, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I think that it would be nice that we use the color of the glee logos, because if we use the background color of the artwork it's going to be a little bit weird. That's my opinion. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZairaTangled (talk • contribs) 03:44, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Change the colours to reflect the logos rather than the background art. If it works, then great. If not, it can always be reverted back and we can discuss other ideas. -- SchrutedIt08 (talk) 03:36, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Reception section

My concerns were expressed at Talk:Glee (season 5)#Reception section; basically, it takes up a lot of room, has been placed before other, more important sections like Production and Cast, and only adds ratings/share information to what is already in the Episodes section. I don't believe it belongs in the season article; it is not sufficiently useful considering the prominence given. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)