Talk:Goodluck Jonathan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Sock puppet?

There appears to be some evidence that AIRFORCEBOY (talk) and FRANKBISTORY (talk) are the same user. They appeared on Wikipedia at the same time, they edit similar subjects, and even on this talk page the writing styles are identical. Not sure what to do about this, if anything, other than to make others aware that there's sock-puppetry going on.Rockypedia (talk) 18:17, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Frank, it's not okay to simply delete this discussion. I feel I must inform you that I have elevated the issue, and continued attempts by you to delete this statements will probably not work towards the greater good. Please discuss this in a civil manner, without resorting to just edit warring and repeated attempts at deletion. Thanks. Rockypedia (talk) 02:06, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

NOT AIRFORCEBOY. Rockypedia IS VERY VERY CHILDISH. COULD EVERYONE ON WIKI PLEASE KINDLY CHECK ALL HIS EDITS FROM NOW ON. HAS POOR COMMAND OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FRANKBISTORY (talk • contribs) 02:18, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Assessment Comments

What is required is referenced information in neutral language on his noteworthy accomplishments before and during his political career. For example, the article states what university degrees he obtained, but says nothing about any university teaching he did, any research he did or any academic publications he has. It mentions the political offices he attained, but says nothing about what he achieved in these offices.Gallador (talk) 17:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Name

his name's goodluck, and his wife's is patience, this is a joke right? there are so many hoaxes on Wikipedia these days, you never know when anything is legit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.106.154 (talk) 03:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

No joke. "Goodluck" is confirmed by several of the article's references. Presumably the name doesn't sound so silly in Nigeria. Art LaPella (talk) 04:44, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone have information on the backstory behind his name? Why does he have an English name for a surname? Is it common for Nigerian parents to give their children English words like "goodluck" and "patience" for first names? Inkan1969 (talk) 17:53, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm from the same ethnic group as President Jonathan. Goodluck is slightly common first name among the Ijaws. Traditional Ijaw-language names tend to be concepts like "good luck" or "destiny" or "god's gift". These days, quite a few parents just give their kids the English translation of an old name. English/European surnames are common as well. Some old trading families picked Euro names to do easier business with the Europeans, some when they adopted Christianity. Others whose families did not have surnames in the old days (class status) adopted the first name of the patriarch a few generations ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.20.243.150 (talk) 21:39, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Just a thought: while Goodluck is certainly a unique name, Patience is a fairly common Western name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.13.140.96 (talk) 13:37, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Uh, no. It's not. -- 96.18.85.76 (talk) 13:28, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Depends on what you consider "common". As of the 1990 census, there were over 3,000 women named "Patience" in the United States alone. -Dewelar (talk) 01:30, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Which means 1 out of every 45,000 women in the United states in 1990 were named patience, so no, that's not common at all whatsoever. 64.222.110.145 (talk) 23:36, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

You know nothing about the west than. Patience was a very common name in the 20's-50's. Its like Fred or Derrik, I know no-one by those names but I would say they are kinda common still.--82.153.35.70 (talk) 16:52, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Here he says he doesn't know why he has the name [1] Nil Einne (talk) 22:51, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Where? That link doesn't go anywhere. 2.28.151.225 (talk) 10:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Patience was much more common in the past. 67.189.12.255 (talk) 11:59, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Well Played, Sir! Dubk (talk) 23:47, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

His name is not Azikwe RichieEbi (talk) 01:05, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Can't access source

Source number five leads to a page to which one has to login in order to view, which most people wouldn't be able to do -- better source? QMarion II (talk) 04:27, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Order of office proposal

Following WP:BRD, I want to list a proposal. Several days ago, I added the order of office (i.e. I added 14th behind "President of Nigeria" [2]) into the infobox. That change was reverted with no explanation - I'm not criticizing that, because everyone has a right to revert - but it has meant I don't know why the change was made. Prompting the user in question hasn't worked either. So, I bring my proposal forward for community approval.

I believe the order of office should be added. It's used on various articles like Barack Obama and Stephen Harper. I believe it is informative: telling readers easily what number president Jonathan is. Any supports? HonouraryMix (talk) 12:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

W.R.T the proposal by HonouraryMix on the Order of Office, I want to support same. I wish to draw our attention to one of the fundamental aims of wikipedia, namely to inform. Informing at a glance will only help the attainment of this goal. It is also my opinion that it will be easier for kids and young school age pupils to remember what is in the box compared to searching for facts in a lengthy article. Thank you everyone. Okorojude (talk) 15:13, 21 May 2010 (GMT)

• Support: Of course the standard isn't whether other countries' presidents are so listed or whether it would be helpful, but whether reliable sources verify using the ordinal. Reliable sources refer to his being sworn in as "14th President of Nigeria", so I don't see what the problem is. -Rrius (talk) 15:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose, not useful. Everyking (talk) 15:49, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

May I ask for an elaboration? HonouraryMix (talk) 15:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

What does that even mean? Isn't usefulness for something like this personal to each reader? -Rrius (talk) 22:28, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I just don't think his place in the sequence of presidents is meaningfully informative in the context of a biographical infobox. I don't think it says anything useful about Jonathan to report that there were 13 other Nigerian presidents before him. Everyking (talk) 01:30, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Should I assume that similar ordinals at articles for US presidents also bother you? -Rrius (talk) 01:15, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

• Support, as he's the 14th President of Nigeria. GoodDay (talk) 22:05, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
• I'm not sure. There were military rulers, too. Did they all go by the title of president? I'd rather say no. I'd rather say that Jonathan is the 14th head of state. Cristina Kirchner for instance isn't labeled as the 54th president of Argentina, either. - Ankimai (talk) 12:14, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
• Support, He is the 14th leader of Nigeria. Variation to 14th Head of State is preferred Opeyemikujero (talk) 13:31, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

• On this "head of state" point, the sources I've seen support "14th President of Nigeria", not "14th Head of State of Nigeria". -Rrius (talk) 01:15, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

• As best I can find, the military rulers called themselves presidents, and they were referred to as such by reliable sources. As such, the move last year to call them "Heads of State" should be reversed. If you are going to acknowledge their legitimacy enough to list them as heads of state and number them along with the constitutionally legitimate presidents, then there is really no reason not to call them presidents. -Rrius (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose on Everyking's grounds. And yes, the Americans ordinals are just as bothersome but the users there are so entrenched in their use that I've given up on trying to change the policy there. Therequiembellishere (talk) 20:43, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

• Ultimately, I just don't understand how it hurts anyone to include them. Ordinals seem to be used to describe Nigerian presidents with about the same sort of frequency as with American ones. In fact, most other articles for Nigerian presidents use the ordinals (unless someone has removed them), so it is sufficiently entrenched on Wikipedia that it doesn't make sense not to have them here. -Rrius (talk) 02:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

• Support I think it's interesting that there have been relatively so few presidents in Nigeria as compared to the US. Devourer09 (t·c) 16:07, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Support. Indicating his order of presidency will aid in easy knowledge of what number of president he was. Nigeria has undergone different regimes and administrations, hence the number of his presidency should be retained. 04:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Good luck Bonze Pelesai (talk • contribs)

Goodluck's hat

So why does he wear that hat all the time? Is there any significance or importance behind it? I think it'd be nice if there was a section in the article about his hat. Devourer09 (t·c) 17:11, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

He wears the hat because he has a secret desire to replace Jam-Master Jay in Run-DMC. From the looks of it, things are going well. 69.205.59.20 (talk) 06:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm also curious about this. If there is a reason behind it, I think it would be worth mentioning, since it is quite iconic to his image. Guitarmankev1 ^(TALK) 22:00, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I found a link here that can be used a reference about his hat. Apparently the type of hat is a Homburg (hat). I'm just not sure where or what to write this in the article. Hopefully someone else can figure out what to do with it. Devourer09 (t·c) 17:47, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Probably for style and gravitas. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:39, 30 August 2011 (UTC) ... ... ... He looks good to me.

The hat he wears is a traditional one, complementing his clothing, and in Nigeria, it is considered formal to wear a hat or cap when putting on a traditional wear, as you would see if you check the pages of other prominent Nigerians like fmr. President Obasanjo. Nonso 007 (talk) 10:56, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

the hat is for good luck — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.84.241 (talk) 03:16, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

"36 indigenes, one for each of the 36 states"

There needs to be a better WP article describing "indigenes". If you put "indigenes" into the Wikipedia search line, you only come to the movie, "Days of Glory" about how the French mistreated native Africans (idigenes) when then colonized. Etc. You learn nothing about "indigenes". Further, it is not clear from this article if the Nigerian constitution requires an indigene from each of the 36 states (is that how many 'states' there are in Nigeria?) or if there need only be 36 idigenes appointed by President Goodluck Jonathan regardless of where they live. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charles Edwin Shipp (talk • contribs) 14:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

File:President Goodluck Jonathan.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:President Goodluck Jonathan.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 00:58, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Children

i think it should be included that Jonathan's two children are adopted and not biological children. Nonso 007 (talk) 10:59, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Bomb Attacks

A terrorist group called the Boko Haram have claimed responsibility for the attack on the U.N. building in Abuja, so, i'd change that aspect in the article. Nonso 007 (talk) 11:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC) that sounds like bad luck

File:Goodluck Jonathan at the Nuclear Security Summit 2010.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Goodluck Jonathan at the Nuclear Security Summit 2010.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests November 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:32, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Unexplained reverts of wikilink of Naira and other changes.

I wikilinked the "Naira" to the page Nigerian naira but this has been reverted twice now along with other changes that were not mine e.g. page protection template and some structural changes in sections by Special:Contributions/FRANKBISTORY. Can they please explain why you are reverting such an obvious wikilink  ? Fromthehill (talk) 19:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Benefits of fuel subsidy is nonsense

We have...

Security of supply - subsidies are used to ensure adequate domestic supply by supporting indigenous fuel production in order to reduce import dependency, or supporting overseas activities of national energy companies.

...but reality is that for example here Reuters in fact what happens is "Nigeria imports most of the fuel it consumes because its four refineries are decrepit, producing at only a quarter of their installed capacity. "

We have...

Environmental improvement - subsidies are used to reduce pollution, including different emissions, and to fulfil international obligations.

...but reality is (ibid) "Economists say the fuel subsidy encouraged corruption and the wasteful use of fuel."

We have...

Economic benefits - subsidies in the form of reduced prices are used to stimulate particular economic sectors or segments of the population.

Employment and social benefits - subsidies are used to maintain employment, especially in periods of economic transition.

...but reality is (ibid) "economists say benefits wealthy fuel importers and smugglers more than ordinary Nigerians."

I just put this here to amuse myself before I delete that whole section of wishful thinking on the fuel subsidies. Fromthehill (talk) 00:14, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

World Cup

I removed the World Cup content. I didn't seem to be notable, especially when compared to many actual governmental controversies. It was something that he did quickly, and deserves a passing mention at most. If anyone has any objections, please voice your concerns here. Dreambeaver (talk) 06:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

^YOu're certainly the self-important douche. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.37.0.82 (talk) 12:54, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Layout

A standard layout for pages - and the one that is the most intuitive here - is to start with some background on the person's early life and education (background), go through their career (so we would go into presidency and his career before that in a chronological manner), and end with his personal life. Controversies sections are frowned upon, especially when the sections in question are controversies and any criticism can be integrated into the section under Tenure. Going forward from here, it seems best to start a section on his time as governor and to include other endeavors. Dreambeaver(talk) 20:55, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

There actually is a good amount of information out there that hasn't been added, so I've done work to add them, splitting up what was the Tenure section to be Domestic policy and National security. I'll add other sections as they come up as well, but this should encompass everything for now. Dreambeaver(talk) 20:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit warring

I see there is some serious edit warring going on here. As this article is a biography, an editor has reported the problem here. I recommend the warring parties discuss the issues there, before this gets reported to WP:AN/I and blocks for WP:3RR are doled out. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 19:02, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Block

It would be great to discuss any problems here while there is a block in place, although it's unclear if any of the IPs wanted to elaborate further than suggesting that there are "content errors". Dreambeaver(talk) 18:03, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

It looks like we finally have this under control in that we don't need to worry about IPs constantly reverting changes. To whomever is going to work on this (and I'm including FRANKBISTORY (talk · contribs) since he did the last revert and seems knowledgeable about the topic), I cannot stress enough that the point is not to suppress information added by other people, but to present all viewpoints in a neutral manner, and respecting WP:BLP. So whatever we end up with should be a merge of the two competing versions, where it makes sense. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 20:09, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I know that I've worked to include the references included by IPs following any conflict, so hopefully they can understand that moving forward. I am trying to understand what the underlying problem is with (for instance, what are the "content errors"?) so we can address it. I don't see how taking out weight from BBC or the NYT and adding an entire sections from PDF copies of initiatives is appropriate. I'd really like to help any users understand the concepts of what should be included here -- I hope nobody is afraid to reach out here or on my talk page so that we can move forward in a collaborative manner. Dreambeaver(talk) 17:50, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

The PDFs are actually appropriate and informative. They are in line with wikipedia rules. Dreambeaver please stop your version. Stop imposing your version on others. Contributions made by the public is far better than your version. better content. This people have far better knowledge than you in this area. You are welcome to contribute. I will contribute also to the Goodluck Jonathan page. Frank

Frank, thanks for contributing. There are a few problems with the version that you are trying to push. First, controversies sections are frowned upon for BLPs -- these pieces under that section aren't actually controversies either. The goal of a BLP is to include Reliable sources on a subject in a neutral manner. Weight should be given to the proper sections as well. For instance, if the BBC reported on one of those PDFs then it would be very notable and weight should be given to it; take a look at this helpful page. A PDF of a policy that the administration of a head of state is implementing is not notable. It might help if you take a look at this section. The version that I am reverting to isn't any that I am trying to force -- just a good starting point that complies with policies. Please remember that everything that was included by IPs is there and that it's included in compliance with these policies. If you have any further questions on policies then please use my talk page as a forum and I would be happy to help -- I don't want to include an entire tutorial here for other non-interested parties. Please remember to refrain from personal attacks. Dreambeaver(talk) 18:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Dreambeaver, with regards to President Jonathan all the things under that controversies sections are the President's controversies in Nigeria are widely reported in the Nigerian press with neutrality. Some controversies like his Presidential Pardon 2013 have been left out on wiki. With regards to the PDF is in line with wikipedia rules that a policy that the administration of a head of state is implementing is notable if 'Source material must have been published (made available to the public in some form)'. Reliable Source. The public version of Jonathan's page is is fine. Frank

Please read the links that I sent. If they are truly "controversies" then they need to truly have vast, exhaustive coverage in large media outlets. Can you provide links for the large amount of coverage? Criticism from a political opponent is not acceptable for a BLP. Please stop looking at this as one version vs. another version as the goal is to make the page as good as possible by following policies and including reliable sources. Are the PDFs covered by other large news outlets? If so, please provide links. Dreambeaver(talk) 17:32, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Dreambeaver could you please stop your annoying edits. The public version is fine according to WIKIPEDIA.Acceptable for BLP. Your version is very very poor. Frank — Preceding unsigned comment added by FRANKBISTORY (talk • contribs) 02:24, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Frank, I'm sorry you feel that way. Your refusal to acknowledge any of the policies for BLPs in particular is becoming alarming. Please bring up any particular concerns you have here. Maybe we should start by discussing the controversies and criticism that you would like to include. As I indicated earlier, if they are truly "controversies" then they need to truly have vast, exhaustive coverage in large media outlets. Can you provide links for the large amount of coverage? Criticism from a political opponent is not acceptable for a BLP. Dreambeaver(talk) 15:34, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

You are becoming very ANNOYING with your edits and very poor version. YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS POOR ON THE SUBJECT MATTER. Stop imposing your version. THE PUBLIC'S VERSION IS IN LINE WITH WIKIPEDIA RULES. Acceptable for BLP. FRANK — Preceding unsigned comment added by FRANKBISTORY (talk • contribs) 05:07, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Lead

I think the next thing that we should address is the lead. Maybe would be best to start with a 3 paragraph format and expand from there -- the current one, political career through vice presidency, and presidency? I know it would be good to shoot for 4 eventually but there isn't a whole lot of information about his pre-political career to summarize. Would this be agreeable for all parties? If so, we can start discussion on how to make the lead as neutral and inclusive as possible. Dreambeaver(talk) 18:01, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Dreambeaver should NOT lead on this wiki page by all means. The public's version is fine and informative on Goodluck Jonathan. Frank

Full-protection

Okay - I advise getting a third, fourth etc. opinions. I've locked the page to stop further scuffling over it. I will post elsewhere to get more eyes on this. I am happy for another admin to drop full-protection if there is productive discussion and I am not around or otherwise occupied. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I actually think WIKI should keep this page permanently lock for a while. I have read both versions and the so called public version is great in many ways. great for foreign investors, great for diplomats and great for the general public.

DREAMBEAVER has taken alot of info from the public version and lumped it in a poor way into his. He has been trying almost every day for a month and a half or so to enforce his version on the public with different excuses. THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AIRFORCEBOY (talk • contribs) 20:41, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I believe this page is prone to an even greater level of vandalism as the 2015 election approaches. I think full protection until 2016 is very necessary for this page. Darreg (talk) 08:00, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Beware of Nigerian Media bias of selected news outlets!!!

I just want to inform editors to exercise extra caution, when using information from some certain Nigerian media outlets. The following under-listed sources are being sponsored by the major opposition party in Nigeria, the All Progressive Congress. Most of the articles written about the President on their site are filled with the negative conviction of the writers. It will be better to use foreign sources (like BBC, CNN, LA times, etc) for any controversial information on Jonathan. It is general knowledge in Nigeria that they are indeed critical of the current regime. Using these websites, just because they are notable sources as the basis for adding controversial information will be a violation of BLP. FTR, I hate all Nigerian politicians, am just doing these because I want Wikipedia articles to be fair to all parties during this critical election period in the Nigerian polity.BTW the article looks good for now as most of the information from the anti-Jonathan sources are quite factual, but this heads-up is needed in anticipation of future BLP un-compliant additions. Regards.

• The Punch (The greatest and biggest of them all)
• Sahara Reporters (The most obvious anti-Jonathan source)
• Premium Times
• TVC News
• Leadership (Nigeria)
• Daily Trust

Good profile, lots of history

http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2015/jan/18/president-nigeria-goodluck-jonathan-poor-boy-to-king-profile Legacypac (talk) 18:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Goodluck Jonathan

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Goodluck Jonathan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "telegraph":

• From List of dignitaries at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela: Nelson Mandela memorial guest list Daily Telegraph, 10 December 2013.
• From Arab Spring: "Middle East review of 2012: the Arab Winter". Telegraph.co.uk. 31 December 2012.
• From Military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant: Sherlock, Ruth (21 August 2014). "The failed US mission to try and rescue James Foley from Islamic State terrorists". Telegraph. Retrieved 23 August 2014.
• From Muhammadu Buhari: Colin Freeman (March 31, 2015). "Muhammadu Buhari claims victory in Nigeria's presidential elections". The Telegraph. Retrieved March 31, 2015.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 15:51, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Edit Warring

It seems there was an edit war going on involving the topic of corruption. As a neutral editor and giving a third opinion I feel the topic is well sourced and directs to another sourced Wikipedia article. Is there a way I can help successfully resolve the situation? In veritas (talk) 04:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I concur on the sourcing issue, and have been restoring the text when removed, as it appears to be a case of whitewashing by blanking. Scr★pIron^IV 13:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

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