Talk:Gregor Strasser

Revision is necessary

This biographical article about one of the most influential National Socalists during the rise of German nazism in the 1920s and early 1930s is unfortunately very bad so far. It deals carelessly with historical facts, distorts his eclectic views ("committed socialist and social radical") and sets a false balance point, technically spoken. In January 2006 I restarted the German WP-article (after the old one had been deleted because someone used a copyrighted German encyclopedia entry). I'm gonna soon try a translation, if nobody objects. --Bogart99 10:34, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. --tickle me 21:25, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Because of my other WP activities the announced translation took unfortunately 7 weeks, but here we are! --Bogart99 09:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Alleged brief affair with Raubal

I feel some mention of the alleged brief affair between Geli Raubal and Gregor Strasser, is in order as it establishes Gregor Strasser intimate connection to other key events and Hitler's reaction to her other sexual affairs, in particular the alleged affair with Emil Maurice. Gali is said to have disclosed to Gregor, explicit details of Hitler's sexual perversions and impotence. Source: -The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler by Robert Waite.

It also sheds a little light on one of the possible motives for the murder of Bernhard Stempfle (father confessor and confidant to Hitler) although the evidence now supports Himmler (not Hitler) being the architect of this event. Mrfh (talk) 06:47, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this belongs here. It is highly speculative: firstly about the affair, secondly about the disclosure, and thirdly about the murder. Surely Hitler had ample reason to kill Strasser without this.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:05, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Check out historian Ian Kershaw, the current big authority on Hitler. He reckons that all the sexual allegations were fabricated by Grigor, who was motivated to smear the Führer, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Valetude (talk) 22:30, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Honorable detention?

'...sentenced to one and a half years of confinement in the Landsberg Prison, which was considered as an honorable form of detention.'

What does this mean? Valetude (talk) 16:24, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

GA preb

I've improved the article as best I can upon the advice of a friend. Will make some final touches and then nominate it for GA-status. Cheers, Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 22:01, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Final touches are done. Going to GA-nom sofort. Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 22:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Gregor Strasser/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk · contribs) 15:17, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Prose

• Second paragraph in the lead should be split.
  • Done. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 17:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
• Putting the same citations over and over again is unecessary (per WP:OVERCITE)
  • Agreed, but I don't think this particular article should be looked at as WP:OVERCITE. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 17:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Jonas with due respect, I think it could use some tweaking, and I did so per reviewer suggestion; so done. Kierzek (talk) 19:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
• Put the citations in order
  • Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this? Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 17:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
    • I mean reorder citations that look like this: "[8][7]"
      • I don't see a single reference like that in the article. Are you sure you see some? Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 20:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
        • Done. Kierzek (talk) 19:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
          • Check the "Political career" section.--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 21:30, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
            • I've done that, but still can't find any... after all, all references in the article can be seen in the "References" section and there are no such citations in there! Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 11:33, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
• Duplicate link to Lower Bavaria
  • Fixed. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 17:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

References

• Standardize locations of the publishers in the printed sources.--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 15:17, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Location of printed sources are not mandatory; it's an option. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 17:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
    • I meant to either put locations for all of the sources or remove them all.--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 19:00, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
      • Like above, I also don't see any locations being mentioned in either the printed or online source subsections...? Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 20:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
        • Printed sources #5 and 6
          • Fixed. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 11:31, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Tomandjerry211, on behalf of Jonas and myself, thanks for another GA review. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 12:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Individual reassessment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Delisted. --Assayer (talk) 23:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Gregor Strasser/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

This article in its current version does not meet the criteria for a good article. First, some sources are either not verifiable (World Media Rights and the BBC documentary are simply not available - and I find it highly unusual to rely on documentaries) or unreliable (Jewish Virtual Library). But second, and ultimately more important, the article contains numerous factual errors and misrepresentations of the sources cited.

• Strasser was never sentenced for high treason to five years imprisonment at Landsberg. He was rounded up by the police in February 1924 and sentenced to 15 months imprisonment in May (!) 1924. He was put on probation, not at least because he had already been elected to the Bavarian Parliament (elections were on 6 April and 4 May (in the Palatinate)) 1924. To be sure, Richard J. Evans doesn't even mention that trial, let alone a five year sentence. By the way, the Beer Hall Putsch was not meant to just "seize control of Munich".
• Strasser became head of the NSDAP national organization in 1928. ("Reichsorganisationsleiter") (just look up the reference, Stachura's bio).
• The article ignores the crisis around the Kampf-Verlag and the ideological differences between Otto and Gregor Strasser. Gregor was always "Hitler's man".
• The Berlin party organization was ruled by Goebbels. I have looked up both Nicholls and Fulbrook and neither of them supports the claims of Wikipedia.
• In the mid 1920s, support for the Nazi Party was dropping.... Interesting claim, since the NSDAP was banned between November 1923 and July 1924 and reorganized in 1925. Until then it was a predominantly Bavarian splinter party and started to gain ground slowly after 1926.
• The crises which led to the Bamberg conference was not about Hitler, but about programmatic issues, namely about the socialist profile of the NSDAP and criticism of the Munich "Clique", i.e. Esser and Streicher.
• Strasser was formally replaced as Reichs leader of NSDAP propaganda at the end of 1927 by Hitler himself.
• Hitler was offered the vice chancellery in August 1932. Strasser was asked by Schleicher in December 1932.
• The weekly newspaper Die Schwarze Front was edited by Otto. Stachura say nothing about that newspaper at op. cit. p. 127.
• It is not proven, if it was Hitler who ordered Strasser to be shot. See Stachura, p. 123 on that.

I will fix some of the more serious issues soon, but IMO the article needs to be rewritten. All references have to be looked up and/or replaced by other sources. (The latest biography on Strasser is the one by Peter Stachura, published in 1983 and it's in English.) So for matters of fairness there should be a reassessment of the article anyway. I might note that some of the errors have been written into the article shortly before the article was nominated for GA review. (See the version of 21 January 2015).--Assayer (talk) 17:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

I remember trying to help "punch this article up" some and added the Longerich, Kershaw and Hamilton; I cannot state anything about the other sources, such as Nicholls and Fulbrook, since I don't have them and did not add in that text. One has to assume some good faith of editors and reviewers. Now, with that said as to the past, if there are better RS sources and fixes that need done, then have at it. Update addendum - I have done what I can and tweaked the article with some detail and did some copy edits and added some better cites to three points. I believe the article can be improved and frankly has been already and then it can be re-viewed, if that is consensus. But I don't automatically believe delisting is needed. Kierzek (talk) 02:15, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

• Delist -- when I saw "World Media Rights" in the nomination it occurred to me that editor Jonas Vinters was most likely involved; the editor was topic banned from WWII and Nazi Germany topics about a year ago. Per Talk:Gregor Strasser/GA1, it appears that "Doctor Papa Jones" from the article history and Jonas Vinters are the same editor. If they are indeed the same user, then much of the content would be highly suspect. Suggest delisting for now, and then renominating "under new management" if the article sufficiently improves for GA. This would remove questions that the name of Jonas immediately brought to my mind. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:33, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

• Comment: I should probably mention that the article clearly violates MOS:LEAD, since at three paragraphs the lead is too long, but one to two paragraphs should be easily accomplished. K.e.coffman, a number of questionable sources were removed from the article shortly after you posted the above, along with the material they supported. Have the problems you saw in the article been adequately addressed? Any specific places that currently raise red flags? BlueMoonset (talk) 01:53, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

• Closing I nominated the article for reassessment, because of numerous factual errors, misrepresentations of the sources and the use of unreliable sources. My assessment of the inaccuracies and sources has been supported by other editors. Although I worked on the more urgent issues, the article still does not address major aspects. For example, Strasser's economic program, his influence upon NSDAP Economic Program of 1932, and his influence on Strasserism are not dealt with. As was also pointed out, the lead section is not yet a concise summary and introduction to the topic. No editor has spoken in favor of the article in its current version, but consensus has it that the article would need further review and improvement to meet all of the Good article criteria. The discussion has been open for several months without further improvement of the article. Thus the article is delisted.--Assayer (talk) 23:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Black Front

Previously this page had a section saying that Strasser was involved in his brother's anti-Hitler National Socialist organisation, the Black Front, following his retirement from politics. It cited a page in Stachura's Gregor Strasser and the Rise of Nazism which says precisely the opposite: that there is no evidence he did so, nor that he was involved in any political activity after March 1933. Whoever wrote the previous section sourced this 'information' by citing a 2014 edition of Stachura's book, whereas all other citations in the article are from the 1983 publication. As far as I can tell, there is no difference between the 1983 or 2014 editions- there have been no editorial changes made in subsequent publications, they are merely reprints. I suspect that whoever wrote this section was deliberately writing falsehoods citing a fake source.

Stachura explicitly states that, despite some ideological similarities between the two brothers, Gregor had a dim view of Otto's political tactics. This matches the views of Strasserist Albert Krebs's The Memoirs of an Ex-Gauleiter- he describes Gregor as far more conservative than his brother, despite his socialism, and Krebs is likewise highly skeptical that Gregor was in any way involved with Otto's political activities after the latter was expelled from the NSDAP. I deleted the section and amended it with more accurate information.

Infobox image size

The current size

The default size

I believe that the aspect ratio of the infobox image in this article is such that presented at the infobox's default value it is too large, the visual equivalent of SHOUTING. I suggest that the current size is more appropriate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:22, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

• No. As per the response across each and every one of your scatter-gun crusade to change these. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:29, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

• My "crusade" is simply to make images an appropriate size for the pages they are on. I don't know what yours is. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:20, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I found a signature

If anyone knows how to add the little signature box just type in Gregor strasser signature in Google and you can find it 174.211.170.229 (talk) 18:46, 29 December 2021 (UTC)