Talk:HMS Sovereign of the Seas

"candle accident"

this blog post

http://lewisshepherd.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/walled-garden-wikis-and-candlepower/

quotes some source (obscure to me) that says

Sovereign of the Seas: HMS Sovereign of the Seas; First Rate; Length:38.7 m (keel); Beam: 14.2 m; 1,141 tons; Armament: 106 guns; 20 cannon drakes, 4 demi-cannon drakes and 4 demi-cannon on the lower gun deck; 24 culverin drakes, 6 culverins and 4 demi-cannon on the middle gun deck; 38 demi-culverin drakes, 4 demi-culverins and 2 culverin drakes on the upper gun deck; Woolwich Dockyard, England; 1637. The Royal Navy’s most lavish ornamented and expensive ship of the day. Slow and cumbersome, she nevertheless saw action during all three Anglo-Dutch wars. *In 1703 she was destroyed by a candle mishap at Chatham.*” (Emphasis added.)

the only web source that comes close to this account is

http://www.farahardupre.co.uk/catalog/Cat_56.pdf

which is a catalog with somewhat romantic descriptons of artifacts that says

The ship took part in many battles with the Dutch and French and remained undefeated. Sadly she came to an ignominious end in 1696 at Chatham, when a careless sailor left a candle unchecked in his cabin, and she was destroyed by fire. Had she survived, she would not have been obsolete in terms of fire power and size, at the Battle of the Nile over a century later. At the launch of “The Sovereign of the Seas” King Charles ordered the Master of the Royal Mint to produce a commemorative medal to be known as “The Dominion of the Seas Medal”. A few were first struck in silver but because of its size technical problems caused the rest, like this one, to be cast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edward Vielmetti (talk • contribs) 14:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

from Samuel Pepys diary

http://www.pepysdiary.com/p/1820.php#discussion

or more accurately from comments thereupon; lots of discussion including a recounting of the candle story.

it was renamed the HMS Royal Sovereign by then.

Paid for with Charles I’s very unpopular Ship Money, the Sovereign of the Seas was launched in 1637. The world’s first true three-decker, she was very big for her day at over 1500 tons and carried 100 guns plus. She was rebuilt as Royal Sovereign in 1660, and again in 1685 when her upper works were cut down to make her more seaworthy. An overturned candle set her on fire at her moorings at Chatham in 1697 and destroyed her. Her replacement, Royal Sovereign II was launched in 1701. She was feared by the Dutch who called her the”golden devil” on account of the lavish gold leaf applied to her ornaments.

this text is otherwise unsourced —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edward Vielmetti (talk • contribs) 14:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

found the court martial records

blogged here

http://vielmetti.typepad.com/vacuum/2008/10/why-did-the-roy.html

which can be worked into the article as appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edward Vielmetti (talk • contribs) 01:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Not built as a ship of the line

I would take issue with the citations to Brian Lavery. At least in the British Royal Navy, the term "ship of the line" can't go any further back than Blake's Fighting Instructions of 1653, which pioneered the British line of battle tactic. So the Sovereign of the Seas can't have been built as a ship of the line, much less a "first rate" in 1637. I don't have a counter-citation ready to hand, or I'd change the lead myself. Pirate Dan (talk) 19:53, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

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Article title HMS Sovereign of the Seas is illogical.

"HMS Sovereign of the Seas" is a strange (one might even say illogical) title for the article, as no such ship with that precise title has ever existed. The article itself explains how the ship's name was changed slightly three times in its first decade or so. It states "Sovereign of the Seas ... later renamed HMS Sovereign, and then HMS Royal Sovereign at the Restoration of Charles II". Therefore the title should be "Sovereign of the Seas (1637)" - that or, at a pinch, "HMS Royal Sovereign (1637)". But certainly not the present title used, 'cos no such shup ever existed! Thoughts about article title change, anyone? Pete Hobbs (talk) 23:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Change of name

I hit the Send button by accident. I changed the date when the Sovereign was renamed Royal Sovereign to 1660, to harmonize with the text; at that same date the Commonwealth's Naseby was renamed Royal Charles. J S Ayer (talk) 21:09, 6 April 2024 (UTC)