Talk:Hanpu/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Piotrus (talk · contribs) 13:04, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   No obvious copyvios. Prose is properly written. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:04, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

   No problems MoS-wise.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   No problems with references.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   No problems with references.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

   C. No original research:

   No problems with OR.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   Seems comprehensive, given the sparsity of sources.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

   B. Focused:

   Focused.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   No issues with NPOV.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

   No issues with stability.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Pre-review has taken place at Talk:Hanpu#Pre-GA_comments. I will ask for a prose reviewer at GAN talk. Image wise, the article can pass with no images (per previous comments about no image of the subject), but perhaps we can illustrate it with an image of a relevant subject? A photo of History of Jin, or something like that? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:09, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

   Hi Piotrus! I added an image of Wanyan Aguda, the founder of the Jin dynasty, who according to Wanyan oral history was Hanpu's eighth-generation descendant. On your suggestion, I also did some research in Chinese sources. I ended up integrating 7 new reliable sources into the article. I even created two new sections: "Names" and "Hanpu's ethnicity". In my personal view, the concept of "ethnicity" is not particularly useful for that period, especially for Hanpu, since we have so little information on him, but Chinese historians use it all the time, so I thought it deserved to be discussed. For the sake of balance and brevity, I decided to present only their conclusions, not the details of their arguments. Sadly missing are the views of Korean historians, because I could find such sources but not read them. I assume that they would say "Hambo" was from Silla or Goryeo – two states that are part of Korean history – because this is what several primary sources state explicitly. I worded the section on ethnicity in such a way that the Silla and Goryeo points of view will not be discounted simply because I am citing more Chinese scholars who think that Hanpu was a Jurchen all along.

   Ok, that's it for now! Let me know if you have other concerns with the article! Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 07:57, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

   Amazing job. As far as I am concerned I am ready to pass it. I'll leave a ping at WT:KOREA to see if anyone wants to help with Korean sources; they would be nice, but are not required for GA-level comprehensiveness. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:59, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

   Thank you! And it was a good idea to leave a note at WP Korea. Let's hope a competent editor will show up to help. Cheers! Madalibi (talk) 12:19, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

   If nobody from WP:KOREA stops by within week, I'll pass it (ping me if it slips your mind). If anyone replies here and would like my quick reply, please WP:ECHO me. Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:37, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

   I'll have a look this weekend. If I don't do it this saturday, ping me on my talk page. —Revi_Discussion 02:58, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

   I had some free time yesterday, and searched library and Google, and I could not find any new reliable source in Korean. (There is two papers, though I had no access to see it.) Everything I found was already in the article. @Piotrus: Feel free to pass it. —Revi_Discussion 03:07, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

   Thanks for doing that, Revi! It would be great if you could put those two papers in a "Further reading" section. Make sure you Romanize the author's name, translate the title, and include a link if relevant. That way, other editors may eventually find access and use these two sources to further enhance the article. Thank you! Madalibi (talk) 03:22, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

   I was going to suggest exactly this. I may be able to obtain access to those papers if I get that information - would you (or anyone else) be interested in a copy? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:13, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

   [1] and [2]. If possible, I am interested in copy of it. —Revi_Discussion 11:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

   @Hym411: I was able to obtain a copy of said articles. Anyone interested, please email me for details. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

   Piotrus: I unfortunately can't read them, but I would be very interested to know what they say about Hanpu's ethnicity! Even if I made every effort to write in a balanced way, it would still be beneficial to balance the Chinese scholarly point of view with an explicit Korean POV. Thank you again for your help! Madalibi (talk) 07:28, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

   Looked two papers. One can be used for other article, and the other's all content about Hanpu is included in article. @Piotrus: Feel free to pass it, and @Madalibi: great job! —Revi_Discussion 13:41, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

1. Passing. User:Hym411, will you expand the article with the new information from the first article? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)