Talk:Haruka Kudō (singer)

Requested move 3 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 18:43, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

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Haruka Kudō (singer) → Haruka Kudō (actress) – Per WP:NACTOR, she has had significant starring roles such as Kaitou Sentai Lupinranger VS Keisatsu Sentai Patranger and was even nominated at the 75th Mainichi Film Awards for her acting career. Media outlets such as Oricon describe her as an actress only (link). Subject does not have a singing career outside of being in Morning Musume, and she is currently not a member of said group after leaving in 2017. lullabying (talk) 18:20, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose Per WP:BANDDAB, Haruka Kudō (entertainer) would be the preferred term for a singer/actor. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 19:23, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

we do not use (entertainer). In ictu oculi (talk) 10:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

The naming convention I cited suggests otherwise. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 00:09, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• • The thing is she's not a singer anymore and is currently primarily known for her acting work. lullabying (talk) 19:26, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. She is still primarily known as a singer with Morning Musume. Search Google News, virtually every news article says "元モー娘。工藤遥" ("ex-Momusu Haruka Kudō"), "元モーニング娘。の工藤遥" ("Haruka Kudō, formerly of Morning Musume"), "アイドルグループ「モーニング娘。」の元メンバーで女優の工藤遥" ("Haruka Kudo, a former member of the idol group Morning Musume). If not that, then it's just "工藤遥" ("Haruka Kudō"). Maybe, sometimes you'll get "元モーニング娘。で女優の工藤遥" (ex-Morning Musume and actress Haruka Kudō").
  She had been with Morning Musume for 6 years. And for 7 years, closer to 8, with the Hello! Project. Now she has just received a Best New Actress award, and you already want to rename her article. She is still a new and aspiring actress, even the award calls her a "new actress". --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:31, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
• And don't forget about the voice actress named Haruka Kudō. See "Haruka Kudō (voice actress)". The proposed disambiguation terms won't work. They are both actresses and both entertainers. The only possible solution (aside from leaving the article where it is now) would be to rename this article to simply "Haruka Kudō", because the Morning Musume member is the primary meaning of "Haruka Kudō", as she is more famous than the voice actress. --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:42, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Maybe Haruka Kudō (entertainer, born 1999) and Haruka Kudō (entertainer, born 1989)? 162.208.168.92 (talk) 21:52, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

That sounds good. lullabying (talk) 22:41, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

That's even worse than "actress". I can't agree. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:47, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

How so? "Entertainer" encompasses both roles. Moreover, while the former Morning Musume member had been in the group for a long time, she had no notable singing career outside of Hello! Project. She has no solo releases, let alone not even being a singer since 2017. Even if she's a rookie actress, she is still nominated for an award for her acting career after she left Hello! Project. lullabying (talk) 23:08, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

You are probably not much into Morning Musume, but back when Haruka was a Morning Musume member, her Japanese Wikipedia article would get like a zillion views per day [1]. She released several solo photobooks, ets. (I don't remember checking her views and her ranking back then, but even a thousand views per day would get an article into the "most-viewed" list, that's for sure. Back in 2015 and earlier Berryz were consistently in the top with a thousand views per day.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:27, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

I've looked more closely, and it seems like her views skyrocketed towards the very end of her time in the group. And when she graduated (left), she opened a blog and became even more popular. But still, she is still primarily known as a Morning Musume member. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:58, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

That still doesn't change that she's no longer a singer (and hasn't been one for nearly 4 years) and therefore "singer" is inappropriate as the article title. lullabying (talk) 01:07, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Why it is unappropriate to call her a singer? There are many articles about retired singers, actors, fashion models, basketball players, etc. on Wikipedia. Should we rename their articles? A singer may retire, but people will still remember him/her as a singer. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

That's the thing. They're retired. She's not, and she's still active in entertainment primarily as an actress now. It's not appropriate for the article title. Sure, she may have been known as a singer at one point in her life, but she is no longer one. Furthermore, she has appeared in starring roles and has also been nominated for a major acting award as an actress -- all the while after she has ended her singing career after nearly 4 years. If her leaving the group was just recent, I would understand leaving it in the article title per WP:TOOSOON. But by now she seems to be more notable as an actress instead. lullabying (talk) 02:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

That's the thing. They're retired.
— John McEnroe and Boris Becker are now sports commentators, television personalities, but their articles still describe them as "professional tennis players" in the opening sentence. If there was a need to disambiguate the articles' titles, would you argue that McEnroe and Becker weren't professional tennis players anymore?--Moscow Connection (talk) 03:19, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

That's a different case; while there's far more coverage on their activities as athletes, I am not going to comment on it as I am not familiar with the sports WikiProject. I feel you're overestimating how much impact Haruka Kudo had as a member of Morning Musume. Even if you look at Oricon's article archives, all her individual articles talk about her acting career. The ones about her activities with Morning Musume only take up less than half of the total articles and only offhandedly mentions her once or twice (trivial mentions). lullabying (talk) 04:39, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Now look at her Japanese Wikipedia article and you'll see that it hasn't changed even a little bit since her Morning Musume days. The only additions to the "Biography" section have been about her opening a blog, an Instagram account and a Twitter account in 2018 and changing agencies in 2020. Her acting career isn't even mentioned in prose.
And, by the way, look at the "Appearances" section. It appears that she gave a solo concert in 2020. So she still sings and performs on stage. And she sang with M-line on stage just two weeks ago. So she hasn't actually retired from singing. --Moscow Connection (talk) 11:30, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Has she released any solo songs? Have they charted and did she win any awards for that? The solo concert just looks to be a fan meeting, where it's common for people to sing. lullabying (talk) 19:02, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

It was a concert.
"Has she released any solo songs?"
— Yes, she has. In December 2018.

• 早見初美花(工藤遥) Dear My Friends 歌詞 - 歌ネット
• 早見初美花 Dear My Friends / ルパンイェロー　キャラソング - YouTube

--Moscow Connection (talk) 19:37, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose she's a singer who did some acting. Like almost every singer does. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@In ictu oculi: Yes but she's focused on acting instead of singing. She's not a full-time singer anymore after leaving her group in 2017. lullabying (talk) 19:02, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

She isn't focused, but she still sings. She performed with Morning Musume on stage just lately, it seems:
• '20/工藤遥 Mr.Moonlight～愛のビッグバンド～⇒Oh my wish！ - YouTube
--Moscow Connection (talk) 20:05, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
It's the band's 2020 line-up + Haruka Kudō. (She's the one in silver. The 15th generation members don't participate in this number.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.