Talk:Henry Knox

Lucy Flucker

Currently, the article says: "Henry married Lucy Flucker (1756–1824), the daughter of Boston Loyalists..." I believe that the correct name is Lucy Flucker, not the current expletive. Can anyone verify and correct this? (Hartnrm (talk) 03:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

 Done That's the second time I've reverted this (two close numbered IP's) so somebody else will have to the next time. Kresock (talk) 04:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Maine and "tyrant"

Is there any way to verify the validity of the source for the following sentence:

In Maine, however, he would be remembered as a grasping tyrant and was forever immortalized in Nathanial Hawthorne's House of the Seven Gables, for which he served as the model for Col. Pynchon.

The reason I ask is that it seems to come out of the blue. He didn't live in Maine all that long and I think we should verify especially when saying someone is a "grasping tyrant." --RossF18 (talk) 17:03, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

The wording probably should be toned down a lot. No doubt there are some people that consider Knox to be a tyrant, residual resentment from the Maine land controversy. See this for a more neutral discussion: "After the Revolutionary War, General Henry Knox, who served under George Washington as Secretary of the Department of War, began acquiring large parcels of the Waldo Patent, the before-mention tract of land comprising most of present-day Knox and Waldo Counties. General Knox was married to Lucy Flucker, descendant of the Waldo family, and through her inherited a portion of the Waldo Patent. Knox purchased the remaining shares of confiscated land (some of the Waldo family members had made the mistake of remaining Loyalists, and their property was confiscated after the Americans won). By 1793 Knox was the sole owner of the Waldo Patent. General Knox took an active interest in his newly acquired land, and set about putting his rights in order. Some settlers on Long Island Plantation, as Islesboro was then called, took deeds from General Knox, others did not, especially those living above the Narrows. A controversy quickly arose. The settlers living on the island insisted that the island should not be included in the Waldo Patent, since they believed it lay over three miles off shore. In 1788, islanders sent a petition to the General Court asking for an examination of General Knox’s claim to ownership of the land. Several surveys were conducted by both sides of the controversy, trying to determine the actual distance from shore. The controversy was settled in 1799, in favor of General Knox, who quickly sold off most of the island in 100 acre plots to islanders, many of whom had been living on and developing the island for thirty years." SaltyBoatr (talk) 18:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Knox was considered a tyrant by most of Maine's backcountry settlers, a fact well documented in primary sources and also by Pulitzer-prize winning historian Alan Taylor in Liberty Men and the Great Proprietors. The "House of Seven Gables" source -- a past Maine State Historian -- is footnoted and is a compelling and well documented case. Also, Knox's "grasping" behavior in Maine was consistent with other actions in his later life, including the formation of the Society of the Cincinnatti, which many of his contemporaries regarded as an effort to create an American aristocracy. Vincent pearse (talk) 19:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Ox Knox

I heard an amusing anecdote in the audio book "Don't know much about History", in which Gen. George Washington told "Ox" Knox "Shift your ass Knox, but do it gently or you'll swamp the boat." The fact this was his nickname is not mentioned in the article. 67.78.162.234 (talk) 19:44, 28 December 2009 (UTC) HENRY KNOX IS AMAZING! KEEP ON ROCKIN! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.207.201 (talk) 19:18, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Knox's Motives / Attitudes towards Native Americans

Based on my reading of the source, this is an inaccurate representation:

However, Knox words were not motivated by humanitarian concern, rather out of the cost in men and money required to conquer Native American lands

The author quotes Joseph J. Ellis's "American Creation", which I just finished reading. Reread pages 136..138. Ellis clearly states there were both economic *and* moral issue that Knox worried about. E.g., "It is difficult to know which of Knox's arguments - the moral, the economic, or the fate of Washington's own reputation - had the greatest impact."

I recommend a correction. Is the original author OK with that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ROPWA (talk • contribs) 14:49, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I can't say who the original author is and it's not relevant. The book you quote makes the claim that Knox was worried about a moral issue. But that doesn't mean that Knox opposed the wars of agression to steal NA lands or that he did so out of a concern for their welfare. Many people, including others involved in the NA Genocide, showed they were aware of the moral issues and they worried how they would look later on, hence talk of their "reputation". Knox was concerned for loss of troops and money involved in taking lands, not the issue of whether it was moral to take the land; he preferred to buy it, but would and did take it by force.

When looking at Knox's writings, the statement above is not inconsistent with saying that he was not motivated by "humanitarian concern"; more importantly, his actions as Secretary of War demonstrated that he was not interested in humanitarianism. How does "humanitarian concern" include advising Congress that a possible option to taking their lands is their "utter extirpation" or removing all the members of a tribe?

You do realise that meant killing entire tribes for their land as an option if they refused to sell? Is that "humanitarian concern"? That's a direct quote.Ebanony (talk) 08:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm going the following: To say Knox had moral concern is what happened to many who did the things he did. They weere well aware of the fact they were involved in war crimes & agression for land; that does have an effect, and yes they knew it was morally wrong. They also knew slavery was wrong morally, but did it anyway.

There is an ambigious sentence: "Knox feared that a policy of constant provocation would lead to costly frontier wars that would hurt the nation."

Rather - and Knox states this explicitily in his letter - that the US wanted to obtain the land north of the River Ohio. It was not going to happen w/o buying it or the "utter extirpation " of all the NA. That's the context. The constant provactions was on the part of the US, always going westward to take land by purchase if possible and by force if necessary. That's Knox own writings.Ebanony (talk) 00:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Whiskey Rebellion and Resignation

Ron Chernow says in his Washington biography "Washington: A Life" that Knox was basically AWOL during the Whiskey Rebellion, behavior which destroyed Washington's confidence in him and left him little option but to resign. Is this widely enough known/believed to be included? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.25.244.9 (talk) 04:52, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about Washington's opinion, but Knox was dealing with his growing business empire in Maine at the time. According to Knox biographer Mark Puls, Washington issued Knox a "mild rebuke" for exceeding the time of a planned absence, having harbored expectations that Knox would come to assist in dealing with the rebellion. Knox's biographers suggest that he had wanted to resign earlier, but he delayed in order to bring closure to the Indian wars. (Most Knox biographies are sympathetic to their subject, making even-handed treatment of this and other issues, like the building of his business empire, a bit difficult.) Magic♪piano 12:39, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Washington's acceptance of Knox's resignation letter link:

Sir,—The considerations which you have often suggested to me, and are repeated in your letter of the 28th inst., as requiring your departure from your present office, are such as to preclude the possibility of my urging your continuance in it.

This being the case, I can only wish that it was otherwise. I cannot suffer you, however, to close your public service without uniting, with the satisfaction which must arise in your own mind from a conscious rectitude, my most perfect persuasion that you have deserved well of your country. My personal knowledge of your exertions, while it authorises me to hold this language, justifies the sincere friendship which I have ever borne for you, and which will accompany you in every situation of life. Being with affectionate regard,

Washington may be being politically adept here (glossing over his opinions in the first sentence), or he may be genuine. Magic♪piano 12:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

inconsistent information

The article's opening sentence says:

and also served as the first United States Secretary of War from 1789–1794.

However, the Benjamin_Lincoln article also says

From 1781 to late 1783, Lincoln served as the first Secretary at War.

. Well which one is it? --2605:6000:EC4B:6200:AED:B9FF:FEAB:988D (talk) 19:05, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

They are both correct; see United States Secretary of War for details. Lincoln was the first Secretary at War, an office which existed under the Articles of Confederation. Knox was the first Secretary of War, an office which was created by the United States Congress. (Knox served in both offices, essentially changing the label on his office door.) Magic♪piano 21:31, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

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Infobox

I have reversed the latest edit related to the infobox. It is imperative that the infobox prioritizes the most recent and significant updates. Clearly, the position of Secretary of War holds greater significance than that of the Secretary at War. Additionally, the updated infobox format contributes to better organization. LuxembourgLover (talk) 20:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)