Talk:Herbert Vivian

Comments

In response to a request on my talk page, I'd like to offer the following comments on this article. Please note that I know almost nothing about this person at the outset of reading the article.

• "He always glossed over his grandfather's political role" - can more be said about this? (not sure about UK politics in this era, but I imagine that the Liberals weren't extreme monarchists like Vivian was)
• " wrote about it later in his memoire" - "memoirs" is probably the more common term
• " they invited Wilfrid Scawen Blunt to speak on the subject of Irish Home Rule" - given the importance of this to the article, who Blunt was should be explained when he's first mentioned
• "and accepted a position as Blunt's private secretary" - do we know when?
• "and was a friend of Oscar Wilde's; it was at one of Blunt's parties that Vivian first met Wilde socially." - not currently covered by a citation
• " Blunt was also developing his interest in the Jacobite cause at this time" - I'd also suggest explaining what Jacobism was given that it's pretty obscure now
• The following statements aren't covered by citations at present:
  • "which Vivian was to develop a passion for during his life."
  • "but by the time the election was called in 1892, Blunt's enthusiasms had moved on."
  • "but continued to promote a strongly Jacobite political philosophy." - ditto
  • "The paper does not appear to have been a success."
  • "He followed this with his second book on the region, The Servian Tragedy: With Some Impressions of Macedonia published in 1904, which detailed the coup d'état against the Serbian royal family. The book was generally well-received"
  • "17 miles (27 km) from his grandfather's house in St Clement." (not sure if this needs to be included - it seems like trivia)
• "In early 1888, Blunt spoke at a rally in Woodford, County Galway which had been banned by Arthur Balfour, the Chief Secretary for Ireland." - what did he speak on? (Home Rule?)
• I'd suggest left-justifying some of the images
• " individualism for girls" - I'm not entirely sure what this means
• "and repeated attacks on Henry Morton Stanley " - who was he?
• Why did Vivian and others think that Jacobism was a good idea? Can more be said about their specific grievances and goals?
• " but his services were not required" - do we know why? Presumably he was judged to be unlikely to produce usable materials given his eccentric political views.
• "He was a prominent British Serbophile, and an early proponent of a Greater Serbia " - do we know how he gained an interest and enthusiasm for this issue?
• Can anything be said about how Vivian is viewed by modern experts? Nick-D (talk) 01:27, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

@Nick-D: thank you for these excellent suggestions. I'm starting to work through them. I'll leave specific comments below where there is more to discuss. Simple changes I'll make in the article and note here. The Mirror Cracked (talk) 01:18, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

• "He always glossed over his grandfather's political role" - can more be said about this? - unfortunately not, at least not without resorting to original research. I'll look again but there isn't a great deal of analysis of Vivian's life available.
• "memoire"->"memoirs". Done.
• Explain who Blunt is on first introduction - done
• "and accepted a position as Blunt's private secretary" - do we know when? Yes, later in 1886 - added
• "and was a friend of Oscar Wilde's; it was at one of Blunt's parties that Vivian first met Wilde socially." - not currently covered by a citation. I've added a source for the first part, and removed the last clause.
• explain what Jacobism was given that it's pretty obscure now - yes, done.
• What did Blunt speak on, at the Woodford meeting. Added, with source
• I'd suggest left-justifying some of the images - done
• " individualism for girls" - I'm not entirely sure what this means. Yes, that's unclear. Basically he believed women should be individualists, though he drew the line at them having the vote (of course). Clarified.
• Who was Henry Morton Stanley? The journalist and explorer, now noted as such
• Why did Vivian and others think that Jacobism was a good idea? Can more be said about their specific grievances and goals? Ah, that is an excellent question. I'll do some more digging and see if I can find a well-sourced answer to that
• "He was a prominent British Serbophile, and an early proponent of a Greater Serbia " - do we know how he gained an interest and enthusiasm for this issue? Another good one. I don't think it's anything beyond he travelled there and admired their king, but I can certainly look for something more
• Can anything be said about how Vivian is viewed by modern experts? A little, especially regarding his writings on Serbia, which are really the only parts of his legacy that have much modern commentary. I'll dig in and see what the sources say.
• You also noted the following unsourced statements:

• "which Vivian was to develop a passion for during his life." this one I had thought to be evident from the sourced material further in the article. Do you believe it needs an independent source?
• "but by the time the election was called in 1892, Blunt's enthusiasms had moved on." - now sourced
• "but continued to promote a strongly Jacobite political philosophy." - this is another one that seems evident, for example because Vivian becomes President of the Legitimist Club in 1897. Do you feel it needs an independent source?
• "The paper does not appear to have been a success." Hard to prove a negative, and "Give and take" is a tough search term. It does not seem to be mentioned after launch, but I'll take this out as I can't specifically source it.
• "He followed this with his second book on the region, The Servian Tragedy: With Some Impressions of Macedonia published in 1904, which detailed the coup d'état against the Serbian royal family. The book was generally well-received". I've removed the "generally well-received" which I agree would need a source — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Mirror Cracked (talk • contribs) 05:14, 16 February 2020 (UTC)