Talk:Hesychasm
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"Experience"
editSome decent history of philosophy would really help clean up this article. There is a large conflation between "experience" used in The Western sense through thinkers like Locke and Jefferson that does not correspond and cannot be an accurate translation of the Heschasm tradition. The spiritualization of this term "experience" is traceable to the First Great Awakening in the 1740's in Colonial America. The mystical visions and contemplations spoken of here are philosophically a different thing. Knowledge begins in the senses and transcends them by abstracting concepts within the Platonic-Aristotelian-Cappadocian tradition. But "experience" is a question of objects, perceptions, and interpretations of said objects that the Enlightenment West asked about. Hesychasm purports to be a way of being that gets beyond mere experience into mystical unity. Whatever that union is, it is mystical precisely to the degree that it is NOT an experience. God qua Being is not another object of experience like others in the cosmos. If He were, then this would be a Demiurge, not the God that is The Holy Trinity.
There are some serious theological and philosophical problems with the useage of this term, "experience" to translate a tradition MUCH older than The Enlightenment, and especially when applied to religion, to The Great Awakening. From 1 AD to about 1500 "experience" in the West and East was a forger or blacksmith's term. The image was of dirt being burnt up around a lump of gold or silver. Experience then meant to be tried in fire, tested, and proved true, with all impurities melted away. It did not mean "holding an object in one's vision." The allegorical use of "experience" then should only be used to refer to the period of purgation and illumination, but cannot be applied to the unitive state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zadokum (talk • contribs) 12:02, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
WikiProject Mysticism
editI have started a new WikiProject - Wikipedia: WikiProject Mysticism. This article would surely be of interest to this WikiProject. Vorbee (talk) 20:58, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Indian influences
edit@Metalune: it's obvious that there are similarities between hesychasm and Indian meditation traditions, but the sources you used seem too speculative. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:41, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
At second thought:
Due to their similarities, hesychasm may have been influenced by Hindu and Buddhist meditation,[1][2] possibly transmitted to the Sinai peninsula by influence of Sufism.[1][3] Presence of Indian monks and yogis was noted in Mesopotamia, Syria, Iran and Central Asia since the 9th century, likely influencing Sufism and practices such as dhikr.[1] Sufi Abu Madyan also attests the influence of yoga-like practices in North Africa in the 12th century.[3]
References
- ^ a b c Gill, John (2019). To Call on His Name: Perspectives on the Jesus Prayer. Sacristy Press. p. 58-59. ISBN 9781789590722.
- ^ Tibón, Gutierre (2015). El ombligo como centro cósmico: Una contribución a la historia de las religiones (in Spanish). Fondo de Cultura Económica. ISBN 9786071626721.
- ^ a b Jäger, Willigis (2013). Contemplación: Un camino espiritual (in Spanish). Narcea. pp. 120–121. ISBN 9788427713246.
- checking Gill p.58-59:
- p.58 Kallistos Ware note 210: "Praying with the body" p.29
- idem note 211: idem p.30-31
- John Dupuche (Indian monks) note 212: John R. Dupuche (2003), "Sufism and hesychasm." intro In: Bronwen Neil, Geoffrey D. Dunn, Lawrence Cross, "Prayer and spirituality in the early church vol. 3: liturgy and life"
- Williges p.120-121 is a chapter by Franz Nicholaus Jager. Jager refers to Karl Baier, Yoga auf dem Weg nach Westen (1998). According to Jager/Baier, monks of Mount Athos developed a new prayer method in the 14th century:
En el siglo XIV los monjes de Sinai trajeron una nueva forma de orar a los del Monte Athos, donde se desarrollo el hesicasmo athonico.
- In translation:
In the 14th century, the monks of Sinai brought a new way of praying to those on Mount Athos, where the athonic hesychasm developed.
None of these sources refer to Buddhist monks; it's all about yoga-influences via the Sufi's. See also here (KW) and JD. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:35, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
I've added diff the possible Sufi-influences, with a direct reference to Kallistos Ware. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:15, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
Daask proposed deleting this but also suggested it could be redirected here. I've deprodded so options can be discussed. ~Kvng (talk) 20:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- At the moment, I have redirected Hesychia to Hesychia (disambiguation). Regretably, User:Dispenser/Dab solver hasn't worked in a while, making cleaning up much more difficult than it used to be. I think a redirect to Hesychasm is probably appropriate, but I'm hoping that keeping it pointed to the disambiguation page in the meantime will help the links get checked. Daask (talk) 14:59, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
Not a new topic but
editSorry for writing it here. I just wanted to correct a typo ("Sufi's" in note 2 should be "Sufis") but can't see any text when I click "edit". Same for the References section. For your information. 176.88.31.43 (talk) 15:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)