Talk:Hikaru Utada/Archive 2

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Sales Conflict

Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Discuss all issues on Talk:Ayumi_Hamasaki#Sales due more active responds additional similar issues occur with many Top selling Japanese Music Artists: B'z, Mr. Children, Southern All Stars, Ayumi Hamasaki, etc...— ■~∀SÐFﾑｻ~■ =] ^{Babashi? antenna?} 06:50, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Japan's top selling musician

I think some editors should learn to read Japanese before posting references. Michiya Mihasi is Japan's highest selling musician with an estimate of 160 million records sold. He became the first Japanese musician to break the 100 million sales mark in 1983. This achievement is mentioned in his profile at Oricon.

Michiya Mihasi's artist page at Oricon. [1]

Many of the Oricon references have been misinterperted, and are actually prohibited from being posted on the Wikipedia due to copyrights. 220.253.109.122 (talk) 09:02, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Sales

Please do not post incorrect information. She is not the ninth highest selling musician from Japan.

Someone has misunderstood that website.

As an example, before the 1990's. Hibari Misora had sold around 70 million records.

English website. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7DA1E3EF936A15755C0A96F948260

Nowadays, she has sold over 100 million records.

No offense to Utada fans, but it is wrong to make such statements. 220.253.16.5 (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Hibari Misora indeed had sold around 70 million records. But Utada is the ninth highest "CD" selling musician from Japan. So it is pretty much settle by adding "Utada is the ninth highest CD selling musician from Japan". Also Oricon only keep track of physical CD/DVD albums. — ■~∀SÐFﾑｻ~■ =] ^{Babashi? antenna?} 05:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

That is not what the article is saying at all, and records is short for recordings, it is not a format. 220.253.8.139 (talk) 23:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I know the Hibari Misora article say records but I am just saying that Utada Hikaru is "the 9th best CD selling artist" but not "the 9th best sellling artist of all time" that what this source claim (MUSIC STATION SPECIAL アーティスト別 CDトータルセールスランキング TOP50！ thats all and I am sure that Hibari Misora didn't sell everything in CD format. — ■~∀SÐFﾑｻ~■ =] ^{Babashi? antenna?} 00:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Record is short for Recordings, it includes any format. Thats why they are signed to "Record Companies" To date, Hibari Misora has sold around 110-130 million records worldwide. Furthermore, that is not what that source is about, and there is also a link to Oricon above for one of Japans top selling musicians. 220.253.154.103 (talk) 04:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reliable sources

This artist's article needs to have references that come from reliable sources per WP:VERIFY, WP:CITE, and WP:LIVING. Wiki.theppn, answers.com, other wikipedia articles, someone's fan blog, etc.. are unfortunately not considered reliable sources for encyclopedic content and thus makes this article less trust worthy and more fansite looking. I have removed references that are not reliable, and also cleaned up her awards section again. If we listed every single thing (minor or major) this page would never end and would lose the readers interest. Thus I think only adding notable awards and records should be listed. Things that are real important to her as a musician and artist. To find more reliable sources in general I would suggest visiting Oricon's site for links and also yahoo.co.jp, barks.jp, yomiuri.co.jp, nikkansports.com, etc.. for more reliable sources. Googling would also help as you can input: "宇多田ヒカル ニュース" and see what kind of sources you can pull up. Also asking your fellow fans to help find reliable resources can help a lot. I have also removed parts that tall about the sound of a song (ex: Heart Station). That's not important unless it played a major factor in the shaping of the artists music career. The whole goal of creating an article is to be neutral and encyclopedic. - Hedatari (talk) 20:13, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not U.Blog

I know everyone likes to visit U.Blog to get the latest information about Utada Hikaru. I visit it everyday (kuchikibleach). But it is a blog and not always reliable. Many of the sources from which U.Blog gets the info mostly speculate what is going to happen next. Wikipedians should strive for quality not quantity when it comes to editing an article. Please be more careful when reading U.Blog and finding more reliable sources such as Oricon, IFPI, and Hikki's Official Website. On one hand, Oricon is not always perfect. In fact, they retracted their entry stating Utada Hikaru's next album is "Heart Station". It may or may not be "Heart Station". Lastly, detailed statements about the singles and albums should be placed in their respective articles. They tell more about the single or album than the artist. So, please keep all of this in mind when editing ANY article. Utadahikaru1259 (talk) 00:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

UPDATE: OK...EMI has confirmed the album is titled "HEART STATION", so the citations should be linked to her EMI page. Utadahikaru1259 (talk) 06:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Honorifics

Shouldn't the title for this page be "Hikaru Utada" since she's Japanese? ~ ILoveCharlieTheUnicorn, 15:30, 8 February 2008

Normally, Japanese names use the Western format according to our guideline. However, this version is the most known one in English-speaking countries, and our naming guidelines say articles should be put in the most common name of the topic, even if that is not the proper one. We had several surveys about this, here is one, and here is a very long one, for example. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Now, what reliable sources say that she is best known as "Utada Hikaru"? WhisperToMe (talk) 05:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Because she is Japanese her name would normally be Utada (family name) Hikaru (given name) but wikipedia's guidelines say that Japanese names should be, given, then family. So yes it should be Hikaru Utada, which it currently is. 68.254.163.105 (talk) 23:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, she is known as Utada Hikaru in the Philippines. --::semper fidelis:: 20:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fleurbutterfly (talk • contribs)

Vocal Damage

Is there any validity to the claim that Utada Hikaru damaged her vocal cords during her 2006 tour? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.192.245.53 (talk) 19:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Well yes. Utada implied it herself in one of her blog posts i think —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.76 (talk) 00:49, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

1999-2000 first love

this section refers to a date in the future, even though it appears to be talking about ticket sales. I cannot change this date as I do not know the correct figures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.38.118.188 (talk) 18:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Weight gain???

http://www.crunchyroll.com/media-302682/Hikaru-Utada-The-Flavor-Of-Life-Live.html

Just wondering... the Japanese is correct in the right hand corner.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 04:22, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

If you meant the top right hand corner of the video itself, no ^_^. It's her name written in last name first name order, 宇多田 ヒカル(Utada Hikaru) ^_^. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 09:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Lengthy Article?

The article seems to be really lengthy, especially with her latest album, Heart Station. A lot of that section seems to just chronicle the timeline of her album production and chart rankings of songs. Its important to note rankings, but do we really have to put the kitchen sink in? That section alone must be equal to all the other albums combined, and is constantly growing too because it is a current event. Furthermore, the last line: "No other specifics were given, although it seems reasonable to theorize that the video would be for the upcoming J-Drama theme song “Prisoner Of Love" is speculation. Whilst i understand that certain things seem very clear, speculation is still speculation, and i'm pretty sure wiki has a rather strict policy on it.

Anyway, i'm requesting that some cleanup be done to make it more concise. Information need not be thrown out completely, but just condensed. I'll leave this for a few days and if no one does it, i'll start making edits then. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haracas (talk • contribs) 15:13, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the article's definitely getting too long; however, I don't want to touch any of the information on her career and such because I don't know much about her. Do you think moving the awards/records section to a separate page would help with the length? rairakku (talk) 00:21, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The article needs a grammatical review: there are a lot of grammatically incorrect and awkward sentences, contradictions of tense within sentences, etc. There are a few spelling errors to iron out, especially ones which are different words with a similar sound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.211.6 (talk) 10:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I have cleaned up the years 2005-2008. I've cleaned up this article before but it seems people just keep dumping more information into the article than is really needed. Moving her awards to another page isn't the problem. The issue is fans let their excitement get the best of them and add way too much to the article, cluttering it with information that screams of a fan blog, and making it so long that regular readers have a hard time following it. Hedatari (talk) 19:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

What reliable sources say that she is best known as "Utada Hikaru"?

Are there any reliable sources that outright say that she is best known as "Utada Hikaru"? WhisperToMe (talk) 05:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

  Because that is what she is referred to in japan.  I'm sure that there are more Japaneses that know of Utada than other places in the world. In fact, she is so well known as Utada Hikaru, many people think her first name is Utada. 68.254.163.105 (talk) 23:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 19:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I do not know of any reliable sources which explicitly state that "Utada Hikaru" is more well known than "Hikaru Utada" - Citing Wikipedia:MOS-JA, in absence of reliable sources stating that "Utada Hikaru" is more well known, I will ask for a move to "Hikaru Utada." WhisperToMe (talk) 22:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

As for some arguments, I am using Google News because it is a reliable source.

• [2] - Hikaru Utada - 214 hits
• [3] - Utada Hikaru - 189 hits

WhisperToMe (talk) 22:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

As for users who wish to cite her own website to say "her preferred order is Utada Hikaru" or "Utada Hikaru is more popular" I think page illustrates that she uses "Hikaru Utada" on some occasions on her website: https://webform.emimusic.jp/hikki/mail_hikki/index_e.htm WhisperToMe (talk) 22:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Survey

• Support - Given the above comment, I think we can safely say that there's no clear standard one way or the other. Without such, we should follow the manual of style. -- Exitmoose (talk) 01:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support move to Hikaru Utada er arguments made by WhisperToMe and Exitmoose. There no longer seems to be one which is more common than the other, so the default order found in WP:MOS-JA should be observed. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 02:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support. Per Mos-JA and comments above. Oda Mari (talk) 16:32, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support per MOS, with an additional suggestion below. – Cyrus XIII ^(talk) 04:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - A few more things to consider:

• Google hits for "Utada Hikaru" outnumber those for "Hikaru Utada" by seven to one.
• Amazon.com has its artist page for Utada under the name Hikaru Utada. Whether this is a standard we should consider is another matter, of course.
• As WhisperToMe notes above, Utada's official website more often lists her name as "Utada Hikaru", though there are a few pages that have "Hikaru Utada".
• There are problems using Google News as a source given the way it binds similar stories together. The site can't be entirely trusted as a barometer for how Utada is referred to in the press. None the less, the fact that the two are relatively close suggests that neither is much more preferred than the other. What this actually means is up to interpretation. -- Exitmoose (talk) 01:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment: What about her English territory stage name, wouldn't that mandate a move to Utada or Utada (musician)? – Cyrus XIII ^(talk) 17:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• That could be possible - I would like to see what others think of this idea. :) WhisperToMe (talk) 22:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment: Well i am against it, but the wikipedia rules are fairly clear on name order. The only argument i can make is that in Japan she is called Utada Hikaru, with her Utada being written in Kanji and Hikaru written in katakana and not Hikaru Utada. I am not well versed in rules, but would moving the article mean we would also have to rename her as "Hikaru Utada"? If it entails that, i worry it would cause confusion amongst people looking her up by "utada hikaru" Haracas (talk) 18:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• We would have to rename the article "Hikaru Utada" but it's not a problem as "Utada Hikaru" would redirect to "Hikaru Utada" WhisperToMe (talk) 21:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• Other than that, will the article stay the same? She is famous in Japan under the name　宇田　ヒカル pronounced in the order Utada Hikaru. To clarify, if the content in the article is renamed too as a result then won't it confuse new readers as to how to address her? If the all that is being done is simply moving the article under a new name (and not changing her name in the article at the same time) then it's ok by me. Haracas (talk) 04:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
  • The article would stay the same in that the album names (the names starting with "Utada Hikaru") would stay the same. We would have to address the person as "Hikaru Utada" according to the guidelines. Regarding "She is famous in Japan under the name　宇田　ヒカル pronounced in the order Utada Hikaru." - This is an English-language encyclopedia, not a Japanese-language encyclopedia. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
    • I realise that this is an English encyclopedia. Anyway, as long as the article remains unchanged, I don't have objections to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haracas (talk • contribs) 17:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.