Talk:History of the Jews in Canada

Ben-Gurion in the Canadian Army

• Is there a source for this? As cool as it sounds, it seems dubious at best... can someone cite this please? pm_shef 05:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Since no one can confirm this, I'm removing it pending sources. pm_shef 23:42, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Illustrations

Maybe a few illustrations might improve the look of this page. Can anybody obtain a photograph of the Shaarei Israel synagogue in Montreal? Or perhaps a painting of Ezekiel Hart or Abraham De Sola? Would a picture of Herb Gray be appropriate in the famous Jeiwsh Canadians section? Can one obtain a logo from the Canadian Jewish Congress to post? Basically what I'm saying is I'm too afraid to post any pictures I find on the internet for fear that they may not be Free to Use. RPlunk 22:41, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We have an image of Ottawa's second synagogue at Image:Ottawa French Seventh-day Adventist Church.JPG, though today the building is a Seventh-day Adventist church. User:Montrealais has taken many good photos and is from Montreal. You could try asking him for a picture of the Shaarei Israel synagogue, though I'm not sure if he takes requests. Also any image of Ezekiel Hart, Abraham De Sola, or Henry Nathan would safely be in the public domain by now and could be added to the article. - SimonP 00:08, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

I just corrected the spelling of the synagogue name -- it is usually spelled Shearith Israel, and its full name is Shearith Israel Spanish & Portuguese Synagogue. It is still going, though not in its original location; I was just there for the High Holidays and will be getting married there next summer in fact! There is a historic picture online at http://collections.ic.gc.ca/heirloom_series/volume1/chapter5/178-183.htm among others, but not sure whether it is Free to Use. Incidentally apologies if I am not doing this right: I have been using Wikipedia for a while but this is my very first time trying to edit something! 70.80.27.104 10:08, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Demographics

I changed "fifth largest" to "fourth largest" at the top -- this reflects the new-ish 2005 estimate from the JPPPI at http://www.jpppi.org.il/JPPPI/SendFile.asp?TID=67&FID=2377. I wanted to put a footnote or some cite to it right in the article, but didn't know how -- can anyone help? 70.80.27.104 10:08, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Along the same vein I wonder about the sentence "[a]ccording to recent statistics there are roughly 195,000 Canadians who practise Judaism, and another 156,000 who consider themselves Jews by ethnicity or ancestry, although they do not practice Judaism": which recent statistics, and as of what date? I am familiar with the 2001 census numbers, which are in fact posted on Wikipedia itself at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_2001_Census -- maybe it would be better to say something like "As of 2001 there were 348,605 Canadians who considered themselves Jewish by ethnicity, and 329,995 Canadians who professed to practice Judaism. "? I leave that to someone more expert than I, though. In particular, it would be good to post a footnote or something there too. 70.80.27.104 10:08, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I updated the Mtl figure to 80k. I recently spoke with an employee with a large Jewish non-profit in Montreal who ordered a survey done of the communities, and the word is that there are only 80 000 left and aging rapidly. The 100 000 is a nice round number being pushed since at least the 1980s and not really realistic. Sure the ultra-orthodox are having more babies, the religious still above average, but facts are that the vast majority of Jewish families [are non-religious,] have two kids (non-sustaining), and the migration persists, though smaller than in the past.

As for Canada having more Jews than Russia; It is estimated that about one million Jews are still left behind in Russia. Of the one million 'Russians' that moved to Israel, about 250 000 are either pure goyim or product of intermarriage. Many, many still left behind. --Shuki 19:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

However, the source provided gives figures that say otherwise. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Jews in New France

The numbers on the Jewish Community's demographics in the 18th and 19th centuries, 200 and 450, seem wrong. Census data suggests there were only 107 Jews in 1831 (source below). If no source is provided I will change the numbers.

Canada. 1831. Statistics Canada. 1831 - Census of Lower Canada. Accessed at:<http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/98-187-XIE/1800s.htm>.

New France was Catholic by law, but in practice, people of many faiths lived there, including at least one Jew. The civil administration of New France had no power to enforce most of the laws for lack of proper means. The border between Canada and the Thirteen colonies was of course not walled. When people were embarking for New France at La Rochelle, they had no choice but to declare their faith. People of Protestant faith (or other) only had to promise to convert to Catholicism to enter Le Canada. Some truly converted, while others of course only pretended to get across.

Here is the story of person of Jewish faith in New France, Esther Brandeau, who refused to renounce to her faith and was shipped back:

http://www.bjcc.ca/content/Koffler/Past%20Exhibits/Wendy_Oberlander_Translating_Esther.htm

Because she made herself known by the French authorities, she is the only attested person of Jewish faith we know of. Unfortunately, we can only speculate on the possible settlement of Jews in Canada from France or the Thirteen colonies, or the other colonies of France.

Some other English language links on the subject of Jews in New France:

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/transactions/3/jewishhistory.shtml

http://www.gelinas.org/centre-gelinas/Juive-en-NF/Allocution-Anglais.htm

-- Mathieugp 16:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Title Change

When I first founded this article it was already titled. However it should be changed to "Jewish Canadians" How does one go about changing the title? ~~

Actually,to keep up with the rest of the series, it should be titled History of the Jews in Canada. You can use the move button above, but I would suggest that you use the history title, as in History of the Jews in the United States, History of the Jews in England, History of the Jews in Poland, etc. --Goodoldpolonius2 23:12, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

~~I agree with keeping it. "Jewish Canadians" pushes an atomistic philosophy of history destructive to historical understanding. Why don't you make entries for actual Jewish Canadians, like Aaron Hart, for whome none have been made.

Alliance of Concerned Jewish Canadians

Can someone please provide a reference that shows this organization is of similar stature to the CJC and BB? As it stands, with 80 Google hits, most of which are Wiki mirrors and Press releases, not to mention its absence from the mainstream Jewish community (I'm very involved with said community, and hadn't heard of the organization until today), I really don't see it as being notable enough for inclusion at the present time. Not to mention that the founder himself admits that they only have around 100 members. - pm_shef 22:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• All mention of this group should probably be removed from wikipedia altogether, since it seems that Wikipedia is being used as a platform for promoting the organization, in contravention of WP:NOT#INFO and WP:NPOV#Undue weight, as well as probably WP:SOAP. In the interest of putting their rôle into context, I have clarified w/in the text that the group is basically irrelevant here, but would be in complete support of excising this promotional material entirely. Tomer^talk 04:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I see there is virtually no mention of the history of the Jewish left even though this was a significant part of the Jewish community until well into the 1960s. I've added a fleeting reference to the United Jewish Peoples' Order which was the largest fraternal Jewish organization in Canada in the 40s and 50s. Hashomer 16:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Working for the organised jewish community, I am familiar with the "Alliance of Concerned Jewish Canadians" as a tiny group of about 30 people advancing a political anti-zionist agenda in cooperation with anti-Israel organisations. Considering their number, they should not be included in this article. Ezra haGuer 18:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

What about the Workmen's Circle, or the Jewish Labour Committee and other Jewish Labour Bund groups. They were very active in Montreal, and Moshe Lewis (David's father and Stephen's grandfather) was active in re-settling refuges. This is from the 1920s until the early 1950s. The Workmen's Circle even built a large hall in the St. Urban St. area of Montreal, which opened in 1934, which was "the pride of the Main" at 4848 rue. Laurent. It was the crowning achievement of the Montreal branch, which was founded in 1907. Now, the section dealing with WWII mentions that in 1945 the United Jewish Peoples' Order ws the largest fraternal group, that is surprising to me, what is the evidence? Abebenjoe 20:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

See this paper. Considering that Jewish neighbourhoods elected a Communist MP in Montreal, Communist MPPs/MLAs and city councillors in Toronto and Winnipeg and Communist city councillors in Vancouver in the 1940s and 1950s (and later in Winnipeg and Vancouver) I'm suprised by your surprise. Winshevsky 20:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Well the Montreal chapter of the Workman's Circle alone had a membership of 3500 in the 1940s according to the Canadian Jewish Congress' booklet entitled In Honour of the Dedication of the Workman's Circle Centre. Goldman's article on page 7, "Seven Years of the League," states the 3500 figure. The booklet is in the Library and Archives Canada funds, filed under ZB/Workmen's Circle. The UJPO only had about 3000. I knew something didn't quite add up with the UJPO being the largest fraternal organization, but obviously it is still significantly large enough to keep and enlarge in the article. It was obvious that the History of the Jews in Canada article was lacking information regarding the Canadian Jewish Left, and its contribution to Canadian Jewry – and Canadian society as a whole. If you want to add more to it great. Keep up the good work--Abebenjoe 15:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Why is information on the Canadian Jewish "left" relevant to the history of Jews in Canada? The article should be apolitical at best and only discuss the historical evolution of Jews in Canada, otherwise it becomes politically charged and bias. Rabrams20 22:59, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Could it be that it is part of Jewish culture?? Of course it's relevant. The Jewish left helped found Canadian parties and were very active in Canada's union movement. As well, they played an important role in settling new immigrants. Remember, talking about the Jewish left, is now mostly an exercise in history, specifically the period from the turn of the 20th century until the 1960s. Today, the Jewish left is removed from the mainstream of Canadian Jewry, but there was a time that it was the mainstream, and again, another reason for its inclusion in this article.--Abebenjoe 05:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

None Is Too Many

Why is the book None is too many not mentioned on this page/— Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.7.247 (talk) 11:58, June 26, 2007 (UTC)

Because it's a load of hoey? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.113.212 (talk) 19:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Jewish Canadians Today

The Jewish Canadians Today section says that Canada is the country with the fourth largest Jewish population, with more Jews than Russia; however this contradicts the Jewish population page which has Canada listed as fifth, with less than half the number of Jews in Russia. Should this be changed? 66.59.129.42 (talk) 23:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Canadian Jewish community in the midst of a population decline?

"Experts debate the accuracy of Jewish numbers in Canadian census"

By Ron Csillag Published: 04/08/2008

TORONTO (JTA) -- A new Canadian census that appears to show a significant decline in the number of Jews in Canada has experts divided over the significance of the figures.

Statistics culled from Canada’s 2006 "mini-census" released last week show that 315,000 Canadians identified themselves as Jewish by ethnic origin. This constitutes a 9 percent drop from 2001, when they numbered 348,000.

Canada’s largest Jewish populations are Toronto’s 141,685 Jews, Montreal’s 71,380 and Vancouver’s 21,465, according to the census.

As with past censuses, experts are divided over the significance of the numbers, with some saying the results are incomplete and skewed, and others arguing they are accurate.

Jim Torczyner, a professor of social work at Montreal's McGill University and a longtime interpreter of census results, says the latest figures are unreliable because they do not reflect what he says is a more significant marker of self-identification: religious affiliation.

"It's not ethnicity alone that creates Jewish identity," Torczyner told JTA. "You can't extrapolate [a decline] from a census that asks only about ethnicity when it comes to Jews."

Canadian headcounts, held every decade in years ending in 1, inquire about subjects’ religion and ethnic origins. Shorter mid-decade censuses, conducted in years ending in 6, ask about ethnic background only. They permit respondents to list up to four ethnic origins, including "Canadian."

Jews are the only group to fall into both categories, which has led to decades of communal debate over who and what constitutes a Jew.

The 2001 census found 330,000 Canadians who said they were Jewish by religion, an increase of 3.7 percent over 1991. Some 348,000 listed their ethnic origin as Jewish, either alone or in combination with one or more other ethnicities, which was down by 1 percent from 1996.

Community officials combine the figures, excluding only those who say their ethnic roots are Jewish but also list another religion. There are about 50,000 in this category.

The community’s final official tally as of 2001 was 370,520 Jews in Canada.

In 2001, Jews ranked 17th overall among groups in Canada defined by ethnic origin, but in the 2006 census they ranked 25th.

Robert Brym, a sociology professor at the University of Toronto, said the latest numbers reveal a deeper issue, reflected in those who listed just one ethnic origin, Jewish, versus those who listed more than one, including Polish, Russian, Israeli and Canadian.

In 2006, he said, the number of people who identified with multiple ethnicities -- on average, younger and more assimilated Jews -- grew by a healthy 11.7 percent. But the number of single-ethnicity identifiers, who tend to be older and less-assimilated Jews, fell precipitously, by 27.6 percent.

Brym says the data show the older generation of less-assimilated Jews dying off more quickly than the younger, more assimilated generation of Jews who can replace them.

He attributes this to low Jewish birthrates, the fact that Jews tend to be older than non-Jewish Canadians and the virtual end to Jewish immigration to Canada from places like Russia and South Africa.

Torczyner interprets the data differently.

"When you give people a choice -- when you can ask, 'Are you Jewish by religion or ethnicy?’ -- those who identify as Jewish by religion will then say they're ethnically something else.”

Therefore, he said, “When you compare just the ethnicity numbers, you get a very confusing picture because you just don't know whether some Jews are not responding at all."

Brym says the latest census figures signal a decline in the overall number of Jews in Canada. He notes that in every census year for which data is collected on ethnicity and religion, the number of Jews by religion is lower than those by ethnicity because some "ethnic" Jews are irreligious or have converted.

He said he wouldn't be surprised if the number of Jews by religion declines by 5 percent in the next census.

"In 1989, I published an article predicting the demographic decline of the Canadian Jewish community due to aging and low in-migration," he said. "Two decades later, the census data are bearing out my forecast."

Torczyner argues the opposite, saying the 2011 census will show a growing Jewish community in Canada.

"People are living longer. There is intermarriage, but that still doesn't affect one's identification," he said.

Torczyner added that Canada continues to attract Jewish immigrants.

SOURCE: http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/200804080407canadacensus.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.166.171.215 (talk) 05:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

348,000 Jews in 2001 census

those were the responses on heritage. 330,000 answered Judaism for religion. there's a difference because there are many people with Jewish blood who can prove it and are not counted in the 2nd list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grmike (talk • contribs) 09:44, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Related ethnic groups: Arab Canadians

Someone else before me had included this group in the 'related ethnic groups' box, and I agree that Canadian Jews, as with most other Jewish diaspora groups, are more closely related (culturally, genetically, linguistically) to Arabs and other groups of Middle Eastern descent. An edit war has broken out over this, but consensus seems to support their inclusion in the box. However, more opinions are needed on this.Evildoer187 (talk) 19:58, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The relationship is a far stretch to say the least - no need for it at all - READ.Moxy (talk) 20:14, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps we could include Israeli Canadians instead. Arabs and other groups of the Middle East are included in the related ethnic groups section of the template at Jews, which is why I agree that they belong here.Evildoer187 (talk) 20:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

That sounds ok I guess - not a fan at all of the section - dont think its needed in any article.Moxy (talk) 20:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Come to think of it, I agree. I'll get rid of it.Evildoer187 (talk) 21:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

This article is about Canadian Jews. Do they share more as a group with Canadian Arabs than any other Canadian group? Do they live in the same neighborhoods, have a shared history of immigration, share similar religious/cultural festivals and so on? The answer is probably not. Yuvn86 (talk)

They don't share much of that with any group, and what little they do share is with Arabs. Nevertheless, the category is removed so it's pointless to talk about it now.Evildoer187 (talk) 23:14, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Most Canadian Jews are Ashkenazic (European) in origin and are therefore at least 1500 + years disconnected with the Middle East, other than religiously or through their modern-day connection to Israel. They would have far more a connection with other Eureopan ethnic groups than with Arabs. This is a no-brainer. Best, A Sniper (talk) 01:32, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

With all due respect, you know very little of Jewish history and culture if that's what you think. Collectively, Jewish culture/identity/etc is not European, hence my objection to classifying them as such. Furthermore, there are Jews in Canada who are Mizrahi and Sephardi (North African), what about them?Evildoer187 (talk) 00:49, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Are you a professor of Jewish or Canadian history? What you think of identities and cultures and whether it fits most Canadian Jews doesn't make it a fact. Canadian Jews can have multiple identites (religious, secular, european, "just canadian" etc), just like any group. Yuvn86 (talk) 02:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC) There was never a palestinian nation , they came from egypt syria iraq persia ....no flag no anthem no army no nothing ....jews have absolutely zero in common with arabs

Asian Canadians category and template

I have removed these for similar reasons as discussed above. Why would we include these here? I really don't want to get into the discussion about who or what makes one Jewish, since that won't really help or clear things up. I would leave this out for now unless there is clear consensus for inclusion, then we can add them back. Fair enough? Thank you. --Malerooster (talk) 21:32, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

358,000

Where is the number taken from? Not from the link presented, having checked it. I would like to present a range on this. Dontreadalone (talk) 02:53, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Upon reading around, the 358k figure appears to date from 1993. I'm inclined to go with the 391k from here: http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studies/downloadFile.cfm?FileID=3131. I will leave a note on the lower census figures. Anyone paying attention?

Dontreadalone (talk) 04:00, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

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External links modified

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I have just modified 3 external links on History of the Jews in Canada. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131202223345/http://www.cija.ca/issues/basic-demographics-of-the-canadian-jewish-community/ to http://www.cija.ca/issues/basic-demographics-of-the-canadian-jewish-community/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120508103000/http://www.jafi.org.il/nr/exeres/ef51326b-a217-4e16-8b3c-61f996184077,frameless.htm?nrmode=published to http://www.jafi.org.il/nr/exeres/ef51326b-a217-4e16-8b3c-61f996184077,frameless.htm?nrmode=published
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120330062151/http://www.bnaibrith.ca/institute/millennium/millennium19.html to http://www.bnaibrith.ca/institute/millennium/millennium19.html

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:05, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Employment

I did a pretty substantial re-write of the employment section. Previously, it had a strong focus on Jewish wealth and involvement in business leadership, but cited less reliable sources that did not substantively support claims made. The section also did not discuss Jewish employment outside the focus mentioned above. I included information on Jewish participation in specific sectors over time, as well as information about Jewish involvement in the labour movement. More data is needed on Jewish employment in specific sectors from the 1970s to present (2020s); I wasn't able to find much in the way of academic writing on that (most of what I found stopped in the 1960s or 70s), so help on this front is appreciated. newmila (talk) 02:35, 16 December 2021 (UTC)