Talk:Houthi–Saudi Arabian conflict

Stop adding undated tag to Article.

The content of the article is updated to this month and year, please stop adding the tag of undated to the Article.Mr.User200 (talk) 01:37, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Why should the casualties here be the same?

Calling OxfordLaw (talk · contribs) and Mr.User200 (talk · contribs).

I hope you won't be offended by this, but I think in your hurry to change the casualties you have both stopped paying attention to which page this is. This is about conflict regarding the border. I am pretty certain that the Arab coalition claim of 11,000 and the other claims are for the entire war. Including airstrikes, combat in other parts of Yemen, etc. These figures should properly be used on the Yemeni Civil War overall article and the Saudi-led intervention article. If you think I am wrong, and the figures should be used here, please say why.

Unless someone has casualty figures for the border conflict in particular I suggest we just put "unknown". It is hard to know casualty numbers while wars are in progress.
If you agree with each other against me then I will accept that.
Also, OxfordLaw, separate question -- you have said before that the coalition claims 500 killed (overall), rather than 1000. If you have a source for this please provide it, I think it should be included (on the other pages), but without a source it cannot be included. (WP:NOR)

Also pinging @Chilicheese22: if he/she wants to contribute. CMV512 (talk) 03:20, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Clearly, the claim of 11000 casualties is for the entire war, not for the border conflict, see sources cited. OxfordLaw, this is why i did not change the figure according to your demand on your talk page. Regards.---Wikaviani (talk) 10:17, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Same here, the extravagant 11,000 Houthis killed claim applies for the entire war not just the border losses. The same can be said about Saudi killed too. Reverting to blank since no info regarding casualties of that TO exist.Mr.User200 (talk) 12:01, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

OK, I'm glad we have agreement. I now removed the figures on civilian casualties that also applied to the entire war. CMV512 (talk) 20:23, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Drone Strikes

Since the Sept 14 drone strikes have not been fully investigated, unsourced statements blaming Houthi rebels should not be added. There are currently several opinions about the source of the attack, and any statement which connects it to the Saudi-Houthi war should come along with a source as well as a disclaimer ("[source] claims that..."). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ari1891adler (talk • contribs) 16:20, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Neutrality

This article has many Pro-Iranian and Pro-Houthi scorces, and this harms its neutrality. Sources like Fars news and Press TV are clearly biased. Also, the way this article has been edited since its creation is reflecting one point of view which is the pro-Houthi one and lacks the neutral point of view. Everyone knows about the media war between Saudi Arabia and Iran and I fear that Wikipedia is being dragged into this propaganda war. I think that an experienced editor or an administrator should remove all biased sources from this article. OKMG-1200 (talk) 13:14, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

There are zero claims made with a Press TV source. There is one claim made with a (now rescued) Fars News source. On the Jan 31, 2016 event, feel free to add a Saudi source or replace the whole by a WP:RSNP, provided there is one. If there is no further argument, I'm removing the tag now. Wakari07 (talk) 23:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Wakari07:, Thank you for replying. Yes, I am made a mistake about sources from Press TV. Yet, Fars News is not the only Pro-Iranian or Pro-Houthi source. There are Al-Masdar News and Al-Thawra.Net, which is a Pro-Houthi news outlet. Also, the neutrality problem is still not solved, because the way this article was edited is reflecting only Houthis point of view and needs to be rewritten in a professional manner. please do not feel offended, but I will put the tag again, so every Wikipedian can participate in this discussion and in re-editing this article. By the way, I prefer using independent and neutral scourses than using Pro-Saudi sources, and even if I did I will use disclaimers. OKMG-1200 (talk) 16:18, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

There are obviously various citations from Fars News and various other Pro-Houthi sources.

There are many more citations from Anti-Houthi sources, such as Arab News and Al-Arabiya.

To further demonstrate my sayings:

• There are currently only two citations from Al-Thawra: https://en.althawranews.net/2022/04/aggression-violates-hodeidah-ceasefire-86-times/, http://en.althawranews.net/2017/04/yemeni-army-kills-saudi-soldiers-in-jizan-and-assir/.
• There are currently only two citations from Fars News: https://web.archive.org/web/20160202111816/http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13941112000650, https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14010121000609/Tw-Civilians-Killed-by-Sadi-Arillery-Fire-in-Yemen%E2%80%99s-Sa%E2%80%99ada-Despie-UN.
• As of writing this comment, there are 16 citations from Al-Masdar: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16.

And as for the Pro-Saudi sources:

• There are currently 18 citations from Al-Arabiya.
• As of writing this comment, there are 22 citations from Arab News.

There are 40+ Pro-Saudi sources, while there are 20+ Pro-Houthi sources.

Further more, in WP:BIASED, it says: "Wikipedia articles are required to present a neutral point of view. However, reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a subject."

In my opinion, Pro-Saudi sources and Pro-Houthis sources are both fine to keep. Viral weirdo (talk) 10:25, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Scope of this article

On 26 March 2015, the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen started. On 2 April 2015, the first "martyred" Saudi soldier was announced by the Saudi interior ministry. I don't see, except for Saudi purposes, why another article "Second Saudi–Yemeni War" was started. Shouldn't both articles be merged? Wakari07 (talk) 00:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@Wakari07: I agree with you that the title of this article is wrong. In fact, it is a deceptive one, because the war is between KSA and Houthis, not Yemen. Houthis do not represent the whole Yemeni people or control all of Yemen. OKMG-1200 (talk) 18:09, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 27 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to reverse the undiscussed move (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 15:09, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

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Second Saudi–Yemeni War → ? – As stated in the discussion above, the current title of this article is inappropriate and misleading as it is suggested to the reader that there is a war between the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Republic of Yemen. The article describes the attacks of Houthis rebels to Saudi territory, so the title should be in accordance with the situation.

In addition, the term "Second Saudi – Yemeni War" is probably an original research: zero Google Scholar results, no references / sources called this the "Second Saudi – Yemeni War".

Previously the article was entitled "Saudi Arabian–Yemeni border conflict (2015–present)", but it was claimed that the conflict was no longer restricted to the border region alone due to regular ballistic missile attacks by Houthis in Saudi cities, including Riyadh. It is necessary to find a better title than the current one. --Fontaine347 (talk) 21:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

@Fontaine347: I agree with you that the title is misleading, But I think deleting it or merging its content would be better. OKMG-1200 (talk) 19:50, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

@OKMG-1200: Merge with what?

@Fontaine347: with Saudi-led intervention in Yemen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OKMG-1200 (talk • contribs)

@OKMG-1200: Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen is tagged as {{long}}. There will probably be no support for a merger. --Fontaine347 (talk) 21:28, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support moving back to the original title. This isn't a great title, and even if it's spread away from the border, at its heart it's still a border conflict. Seemplez 13:05, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support moving back to the original title. The term "Second Saudi - Yemeni War" is erroneous and is an original research. It is best to keep the previous title - "Saudi Arabian–Yemeni border conflict (2015–present)" - until it is decided what to do: merge or move to another title. --Fontaine347 (talk) 21:28, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 8 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unanimous consent for a move, and while other names were suggested this one is the most concise one that covers the article topic. DrKay (talk) 19:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

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Saudi Arabian–Yemeni border conflict (2015–present) → Houthi–Saudi Arabian conflict – First of all the older name makes it seem like it’s a conflict between saudi arabia and yemen’s most internationally recognized government. Second of all, the conflict doesn’t take place in the border areas only, but mostly in the rest of saudi arabia where houthi attacks are very common such as riyadh and Jizan. We could come up with different names, but I think for the meantime this is a better alternative. There are no sources about a “border conflict between saudi arabia and yemen” Ridax2020 (talk) 11:31, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Ridax2020 (talk) 11:31, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Support—the current name is extremely problematic and should be changed as soon as possible. It is, as the nominator points out, blatantly inaccurate OR. Echoing the nom: Some of the most well known attacks were in Riyadh, no where near the border; the Houthis are the ones in question here, not the Hadi-government, so calling it "Yemeni" is problematic and somewhat POV. Aza24 (talk) 22:47, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Support - but with different name, perhaps Houthi–Saudi Arabian conflict or Spillover of the Yemeni Civil War. The title "Houthi attacks on Saudi Arabia" sounds a little one sided since both belligerents are attacking each other, often indiscriminately, yet the title makes it sound like it's only Houthis attacking Saudi Arabia. I agree that this is way more than just a border conflict now so a change is necessary. That's why I changed it before to Second Saudi–Yemeni War (first being in 1934) but apparently that was original research, despite the fact this is a war between Saudis and Yemen's de-facto government. I mean, sure the Hadi government is the internationally-recognized government, however the majority of Yemenis live under Houthi control and the capital is controlled by the Houthis, so from a Yemeni perspective, one could argue that the Houthis are the government but that's a whole other argument. GWA88 (talk) 00:09, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Done, changed to Houthi–Saudi Arabian conflict

Support I agree with changing the name but I think it should something else like Houthi–Saudi conflict, Houthi–Saudi War, or Second Saudi–Yemeni War. Wowzers122 (talk) 00:16, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Houthi–Saudi War and Second Saudi–Yemeni War are WP:OR. Ridax2020 (talk) 07:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Support I think Spillover of the Yemeni Civil War is much better for this article. OKMG-1200 (talk) 10:41, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Seconded. I think Spillover of the Yemeni Civil War would be the better title for this article, similar to the Spillover of the Syrian civil war and Spillover of the Tigray War. GWA88 (talk) 00:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

If we do go with the spillover title, it should really be "Yemeni civil war spillover in Saudi Arabian" since this article talks specifically about the spillover in Saudi Arabian and not spillover in general like Syrian civil war spillover in Lebanon Wowzers122 (talk) 00:20, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

No. My final say on this discussion is that the article should be renamed to Spillover of the Yemeni Civil War. Just reach a consensus and move on. GWA88 (talk) 23:42, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Support the move to "Houthi–Saudi Arabian conflict" or "Yemeni Civil War spillover in Saudi Arabia". These titles seem to be more suited to the subject. According to WP: CRITERIA the titles must be consistent with the subject of the article. Other suggested names are original research or inadequate. --Fontaine347 (talk) 12:35, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merge proposal

I propose that 2021 missile attacks in Saudi Arabia be merged into Houthi–Saudi Arabian conflict, but someone who knows more about the whole sitaution might want to suggest a better target. 2021 missile attacks in Saudi Arabia is a four sentence stub which is unlikley to be expanded as one incident in a years long conflict is unlikley to gain any specific media attention. I also feel that the existance of 2021 missile attacks in Saudi Arabia is a WP:NOTNEWS violation.
SSSB (talk) 15:43, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Support merge - Article is a stub and doesn't seem to be getting updated. Perhaps, notable missile attacks on Saudi Arabia could be significant enough to warrant their own article like the 2020 Riyadh drone and missile attack, but lesser notable missile attacks can be simply put on Houthi–Saudi Arabian conflict. GWA88 (talk) 16:29, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Support merge, as per above. RopeTricks (talk) 20:08, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

This has been here for over 2 weeks, unopposed, so I'm going to merge them.11:27, 24 March 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSB (talk • contribs)

Bad Source for "Ahrar Al-Najran

>Ahrar al-Najran troops attacked a military base in Najran on 9 July, seizing a number of weapons and electronic equipment belonging to Saudi Arabia's security services, and destroying an armored vehicle and a mortar-launching vehicle, both belonging to the Saudi Army. Two Ahrar al-Najran fighters and 15 Saudi soldiers were killed in the clashes.

This part of the page is using an Iranian source, Iran as the page says is part of this proxy war on the side of Houthi group (Ansar Allah), using them as an only source for this cast doubt on it since no other unbiased article reported on it. Lowbott2 (talk) 11:18, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

References

I removed it accordingly. Thepharoah17 (talk) 03:57, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

How can this article not mention the current cease fire?

Hello? https://theintercept.com/2023/04/07/yemen-war-ceasefire-china-saudi-arabia-iran/ 76.71.91.123 (talk) 21:39, 1 January 2024 (UTC)